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#51
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NY bike path mayhem
On Sunday, November 5, 2017 at 4:05:42 PM UTC-8, Ralph Barone wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote: On Sunday, November 5, 2017 at 12:13:08 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote: On 11/5/2017 10:45 AM, jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, November 5, 2017 at 8:06:40 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote: On 11/4/2017 4:48 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote: Per AMuzi: The fact that it was not a mortal wound is accidental. And incidental, actually, as he did stop the threat to human life which is the standard here. If that is the case, it's disappointing. OTOH, at least he didn't empty his magazine into the guy. Ever since the Boston Marathon debacle, I've had a weed up my butt about cops blowing guys like that away before they can be properly "Debriefed". WTF? I suspect you 'misremembered' that. Tamerlan Trarnayev died of blunt trauma, run over by his own idiot brother while in a gunfight with police (following multiple murders and maimings by explosive and the stealth murder of a police officer in his squad car). p.s. I'll bet you real money that said idiot brother, Dzhokhar, sentenced to death, will die of something else after a lengthy stay on the taxpayer's dime. Federal tax payers for the supermax in Colorado. Confinement in a state prison might have expedited the sentence -- not that I'm in favor of shower-room justice, not much. He's entitled to his appeals, if he takes any. Then we have to agonize about getting the right lethal drugs. What amazes me is that so many things are fatal, yet we can't kill people right. Secobarbital and pentobarbital seem to do the trick for the death with dignity folks here in Oregon. We chloroformed our sick and dying pets when I was a kid, and that seemed to work fine. What's with all the failed cocktails? -- Jay Beattie. Every state and the Feds spend some amount of effort, time and money to burn seized Heroin and related contraband. They sorta make a half hearted effort to explain that these things are dangerous. In fact a few hundred USAians per day discover the fatal dosage for their own body weight empirically. Yet States with a putative death penalty bemoan 'lack' of lethal drugs. http://time.com/29345/oklahoma-lethal-injection-drugs/ There's a ridiculous mental block about connecting those dots. Meanwhile, some condemned prisoners dislike needles: http://www.wcpo.com/news/state/state...on-alternative and as you implied some crimes get addressed differently http://www.nytimes.com/1994/11/29/us...-prison.html71 It's been pointed out by others that the most humane version of the death penalty might be a single bullet to the brain stem from behind. As far as we know, it's instantaneous, probably much faster than the guillotine. I don't know why that's not considered the default method. - Frank Krygowski I think one issue with that approach is that it's not necessarily very humane to the guy pulling the trigger (although I suspect there would be somebody willing to do that job for the right amount of money). I guess that's one field where a bit of automation might be helpful. I'm sure Temple Grandin could figure something out. -- Jay Beattie. |
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#52
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NY bike path mayhem
On 11/5/2017 6:05 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote: On Sunday, November 5, 2017 at 12:13:08 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote: On 11/5/2017 10:45 AM, jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, November 5, 2017 at 8:06:40 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote: On 11/4/2017 4:48 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote: Per AMuzi: The fact that it was not a mortal wound is accidental. And incidental, actually, as he did stop the threat to human life which is the standard here. If that is the case, it's disappointing. OTOH, at least he didn't empty his magazine into the guy. Ever since the Boston Marathon debacle, I've had a weed up my butt about cops blowing guys like that away before they can be properly "Debriefed". WTF? I suspect you 'misremembered' that. Tamerlan Trarnayev died of blunt trauma, run over by his own idiot brother while in a gunfight with police (following multiple murders and maimings by explosive and the stealth murder of a police officer in his squad car). p.s. I'll bet you real money that said idiot brother, Dzhokhar, sentenced to death, will die of something else after a lengthy stay on the taxpayer's dime. Federal tax payers for the supermax in Colorado. Confinement in a state prison might have expedited the sentence -- not that I'm in favor of shower-room justice, not much. He's entitled to his appeals, if he takes any. Then we have to agonize about getting the right lethal drugs. What amazes me is that so many things are fatal, yet we can't kill people right. Secobarbital and pentobarbital seem to do the trick for the death with dignity folks here in Oregon. We chloroformed our sick and dying pets when I was a kid, and that seemed to work fine. What's with all the failed cocktails? -- Jay Beattie. Every state and the Feds spend some amount of effort, time and money to burn seized Heroin and related contraband. They sorta make a half hearted effort to explain that these things are dangerous. In fact a few hundred USAians per day discover the fatal dosage for their own body weight empirically. Yet States with a putative death penalty bemoan 'lack' of lethal drugs. http://time.com/29345/oklahoma-lethal-injection-drugs/ There's a ridiculous mental block about connecting those dots. Meanwhile, some condemned prisoners dislike needles: http://www.wcpo.com/news/state/state...on-alternative and as you implied some crimes get addressed differently http://www.nytimes.com/1994/11/29/us...-prison.html71 It's been pointed out by others that the most humane version of the death penalty might be a single bullet to the brain stem from behind. As far as we know, it's instantaneous, probably much faster than the guillotine. I don't know why that's not considered the default method. - Frank Krygowski I think one issue with that approach is that it's not necessarily very humane to the guy pulling the trigger (although I suspect there would be somebody willing to do that job for the right amount of money). I guess that's one field where a bit of automation might be helpful. Hence the traditional firing squad with one blank cartridge in the squad. Mr Barone hints at the larger effect of the simpler method: http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/nkvd.jpg You don't want people to get inured to execution such that it seems ordinary. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#53
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NY bike path mayhem
On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 08:45:54 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote: On Sunday, November 5, 2017 at 8:06:40 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote: On 11/4/2017 4:48 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote: Per AMuzi: The fact that it was not a mortal wound is accidental. And incidental, actually, as he did stop the threat to human life which is the standard here. If that is the case, it's disappointing. OTOH, at least he didn't empty his magazine into the guy. Ever since the Boston Marathon debacle, I've had a weed up my butt about cops blowing guys like that away before they can be properly "Debriefed". WTF? I suspect you 'misremembered' that. Tamerlan Trarnayev died of blunt trauma, run over by his own idiot brother while in a gunfight with police (following multiple murders and maimings by explosive and the stealth murder of a police officer in his squad car). p.s. I'll bet you real money that said idiot brother, Dzhokhar, sentenced to death, will die of something else after a lengthy stay on the taxpayer's dime. Federal tax payers for the supermax in Colorado. Confinement in a state prison might have expedited the sentence -- not that I'm in favor of shower-room justice, not much. He's entitled to his appeals, if he takes any. Then we have to agonize about getting the right lethal drugs. What amazes me is that so many things are fatal, yet we can't kill people right. Secobarbital and pentobarbital seem to do the trick for the death with dignity folks here in Oregon. We chloroformed our sick and dying pets when I was a kid, and that seemed to work fine. What's with all the failed cocktails? -- Jay Beattie. I suggest a "vacuum chamber". Stick them in the chamber and start pumping out the air. Having been through the so called "Altitude Chamber" while in the A.F. I can testify that there are no symptoms and that you breath naturally and feel perfectly normal. -- Cheers, John B. |
#54
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NY bike path mayhem
On 11/5/2017 7:58 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/5/2017 6:05 PM, Ralph Barone wrote: Frank Krygowski wrote: It's been pointed out by others that the most humane version of the death penalty might be a single bullet to the brain stem from behind. As far as we know, it's instantaneous, probably much faster than the guillotine. I don't know why that's not considered the default method. - Frank Krygowski I think one issue with that approach is that it's not necessarily very humane to the guy pulling the trigger (although I suspect there would be somebody willing to do that job for the right amount of money). I guess that's one field where a bit of automation might be helpful. Hence the traditional firing squad with one blank cartridge in the squad. Mr Barone hints at the larger effect of the simpler method: http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/nkvd.jpg You don't want people to get inured to execution such that it seems ordinary. One of my friends and colleagues was of the Bahá'Ã* faith. He fled to this country to avoid persecution by Iranian muslims. He once gave me his account of the execution, by firing squad, of the Báb, the founder of the faith. He was placed against a wall. Hundreds of men in the firing squad pointed their rifles and, at the command, pulled their triggers. My friend says when the smoke cleared, the Báb was unhurt. According to my friend, it was no miracle. It was simply that of the hundreds with rifles, none wanted to be responsible for killing such an obviously holy man. The official Bahá'Ã* versions are different, shading a bit more toward the miraculous. In any case, a second attempt did kill the Báb. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#55
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NY bike path mayhem
On Mon, 6 Nov 2017 00:05:36 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote: Frank Krygowski wrote: On Sunday, November 5, 2017 at 12:13:08 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote: On 11/5/2017 10:45 AM, jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, November 5, 2017 at 8:06:40 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote: On 11/4/2017 4:48 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote: Per AMuzi: The fact that it was not a mortal wound is accidental. And incidental, actually, as he did stop the threat to human life which is the standard here. If that is the case, it's disappointing. OTOH, at least he didn't empty his magazine into the guy. Ever since the Boston Marathon debacle, I've had a weed up my butt about cops blowing guys like that away before they can be properly "Debriefed". WTF? I suspect you 'misremembered' that. Tamerlan Trarnayev died of blunt trauma, run over by his own idiot brother while in a gunfight with police (following multiple murders and maimings by explosive and the stealth murder of a police officer in his squad car). p.s. I'll bet you real money that said idiot brother, Dzhokhar, sentenced to death, will die of something else after a lengthy stay on the taxpayer's dime. Federal tax payers for the supermax in Colorado. Confinement in a state prison might have expedited the sentence -- not that I'm in favor of shower-room justice, not much. He's entitled to his appeals, if he takes any. Then we have to agonize about getting the right lethal drugs. What amazes me is that so many things are fatal, yet we can't kill people right. Secobarbital and pentobarbital seem to do the trick for the death with dignity folks here in Oregon. We chloroformed our sick and dying pets when I was a kid, and that seemed to work fine. What's with all the failed cocktails? -- Jay Beattie. Every state and the Feds spend some amount of effort, time and money to burn seized Heroin and related contraband. They sorta make a half hearted effort to explain that these things are dangerous. In fact a few hundred USAians per day discover the fatal dosage for their own body weight empirically. Yet States with a putative death penalty bemoan 'lack' of lethal drugs. http://time.com/29345/oklahoma-lethal-injection-drugs/ There's a ridiculous mental block about connecting those dots. Meanwhile, some condemned prisoners dislike needles: http://www.wcpo.com/news/state/state...on-alternative and as you implied some crimes get addressed differently http://www.nytimes.com/1994/11/29/us...-prison.html71 It's been pointed out by others that the most humane version of the death penalty might be a single bullet to the brain stem from behind. As far as we know, it's instantaneous, probably much faster than the guillotine. I don't know why that's not considered the default method. - Frank Krygowski I think one issue with that approach is that it's not necessarily very humane to the guy pulling the trigger (although I suspect there would be somebody willing to do that job for the right amount of money). I guess that's one field where a bit of automation might be helpful. At one time the Thai's used a modification of that scheme. From 1937 until 2002 the individual was tied to a post behind a large screen or sheet of paper which had a target marked to aligned with the individual's heart. A small machine gun was used to fire 15 rounds through the target. -- Cheers, John B. |
#56
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NY bike path mayhem
Per AMuzi:
WTF? I suspect you 'misremembered' that. Tamerlan Trarnayev died of blunt trauma I was thinking of his brother hiding in the boat and the 20 seconds of continuous small arms fire ("Contagious Fire"??) that the geniuses surrounding poured into the boat. It was nothing short of a miracle that he survived - and at a time when they did not know: - If others were involved - If more bombs had been placed. If ever there was an need to keep somebody alive to be debriefed in the interest of saving civilian lives, that was it. Didn't the 911 investigative panel return a finding that communications between agencies/forces was a major failing? .... Didn't seem to me like there was much communication going on the more like every amateur/volunteer cop/Barney Fife Wannabe for miles around descending on the place looking for somebody to shoot. And did anybody else notice the guy in the full beard and plain clothes carrying something that looked like an AR-15 running around? I'm surprised he lived through that debacle. I watched most of it on live TV and came away thinking I had been watching The Keystone Cops in action. Heaven forbid something really big happens. -- Pete Cresswell |
#57
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NY bike path mayhem
Per jbeattie:
I'm sure Temple Grandin could figure something out. Bingo !!!... We have a winnah!! -- Pete Cresswell |
#58
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NY bike path mayhem
On Sun, 05 Nov 2017 11:39:36 -0600, Tim McNamara
wrote: You can release a wrongfully convicted person from prison and make some restitution to them, but you cannot release someone from the grave. You can't un-kill anybody, it's true, but you also can't un-torture people who have been kept in cages for years. You can't even pay back a fine unless it was such a small fine that it didn't hurt. The only reason for opposing "death penalty" is that we the people can't delegate authority that we don't have. We are entitled to kill in self-defense, if we haven't time to think of a better way to defend ourselves, but we aren't entitled to kill someone who is safely caged and can't harm anyone without the consent of his jailors. follow up set to rec.bicycles.misc -- Joy Beeson joy beeson at comcast dot net |
#59
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NY bike path mayhem
On Sun, 05 Nov 2017 08:40:11 -0800, avagadro7 wrote:
snip hunters n cops get worked up in battle: extremely viscous, harried, bad shot, multiple rounds .... testing proficiency in real time conditions is ? They are generally pretty hard to pour into a bottle even when not in battle. -- davethedave |
#60
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NY bike path mayhem
On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 20:24:50 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 11/5/2017 7:58 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 11/5/2017 6:05 PM, Ralph Barone wrote: Frank Krygowski wrote: It's been pointed out by others that the most humane version of the death penalty might be a single bullet to the brain stem from behind. As far as we know, it's instantaneous, probably much faster than the guillotine. I don't know why that's not considered the default method. - Frank Krygowski I think one issue with that approach is that it's not necessarily very humane to the guy pulling the trigger (although I suspect there would be somebody willing to do that job for the right amount of money). I guess that's one field where a bit of automation might be helpful. Hence the traditional firing squad with one blank cartridge in the squad. Mr Barone hints at the larger effect of the simpler method: http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/nkvd.jpg You don't want people to get inured to execution such that it seems ordinary. One of my friends and colleagues was of the Bahá'í faith. He fled to this country to avoid persecution by Iranian muslims. He once gave me his account of the execution, by firing squad, of the Báb, the founder of the faith. He was placed against a wall. Hundreds of men in the firing squad pointed their rifles and, at the command, pulled their triggers. My friend says when the smoke cleared, the Báb was unhurt. According to my friend, it was no miracle. It was simply that of the hundreds with rifles, none wanted to be responsible for killing such an obviously holy man. The official Bahá'í versions are different, shading a bit more toward the miraculous. In any case, a second attempt did kill the Báb. A very radical religion. Good Lord they forbid: Backbiting and gossip Drinking or selling alcohol Sexual intercourse outside of marriage Partisan politics Begging as a profession -- Cheers, John B. |
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