Groupsets

On Sunday, June 7, 2020 at 5:04:30 PM UTC+2, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 7 June 2020 10:53:16 UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, June 7, 2020 at 3:35:42 AM UTC-7, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
Am Fri, 5 Jun 2020 21:31:26 -0400 schrieb Frank Krygowski
:

On 6/5/2020 7:32 PM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:

I own and ride a road bike equipped with a an Ultegra 3x10 group from
2010 (6703, AFAIR) and I'm quite happy with it. Changing gears ist
easy, fast and works like a charm. Except when it it doesn't. Problem
is, the construction is a mechanical nightmare. I bought it specifically
because both cables (bowden cable?), both those for braking and those
for changing gears are routed along the handle bar, so that there is
enough space between the handles to moutn a large Ortlieb handlebar bag.
Have look at
https://pluspora.com/posts/296e60b0625701384a38005056264835, fifth
picture or
https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/20200416/DSC01809.jpg

Changing the inner cable is difficult, when one of the wires is already
broken. Somehow I damaged an tiny spring while removing the old cable.
In consequence, the whole expensive grip had to be replaced.

...

But mainly, I'd really like to get rid of all those arkwardly routed
cables, which break much to often.

Interesting. I have always used large handlebar bags on (almost) all
bikes.

So do I.

197x ff: https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/loire1.jpg
1996-2010: https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/IMG-2461.JPG

Gadzooks. No offense, but that last photo looks like a dumpster find -- except for the undoubtedly expensive hydro rim brakes. What do you use for a fun, fast ride? I hope you at least remove the kickstand.

-- Jay Beattie.

Wolfgang Strobl, in regards to IMG_2461, how do you stay on t hat saddle? Don't your arms get sore?

Cheers

That puzzles me too.

Lou

On 6/7/2020 9:50 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 7 June 2020 10:43:20 UTC-4, wrote:
Op zondag 7 juni 2020 16:35:52 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 6/7/2020 10:17 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 7 June 2020 06:35:42 UTC-4, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
Snipped
The owner of a bicycle shop, whom I consulted for getting a replacement
shifter tried to convince me to use a an older shifter, he called them
"Wäscheleinenschalthebel", clotheeslines shifter, because these didn't
have this - to him - well known reliability problem. For me, this
wasn't an option, because I very much rely on my large handle bar bag.

My wife rides a Scott bicycle with the older 105 3x10 version of the
group, which actually has these clotheslines.

https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/scott.png

She actually would like to have a decent handlebar bag, too, but alas,
that's not possible her. On the positive side, those shifters work
flawlessly, so far.
Snipped

I've seen people using those exposed "clothesline" shifter cable housings to clip their route crib sheets to. they put the sheets inside a clear plastic cover and then use a couple of binder clips to clip them to those cable housings.

Some other people apparently have use the noodles from V-brakes to direct those cable housings away from their handlebar bag.

https://thecrazyrandonneur.wordpress...-sti-shifters/


A good tip, I think. I've seen people cram a small handlebar bag in
there by just letting those "clothesline" cables flex out of the way.
The noodles look much more elegant.


--
- Frank Krygowski

If you still see the clotheslines models is prove of the reliability of STI.

Lou

I find it to be quite interesting that Campagnolo had their Ergo shifter cable routed under the handlebar tape/wrap LONG before Shimano did.

Cheers


Ergos have an undocumented (probably unintended as well)
design feature; The gear wire wraps on its capstan in a
different plane from STi so although they do fail, they fail
less often and the cable stumps don't jam inside. As Ergo
riders have discovered, the first frays of a gear wire stick
through the rubber cover into the rider's palm, just enough
to notice, before the wire breaks altogether.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 6/7/2020 9:53 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, June 7, 2020 at 3:35:42 AM UTC-7, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
Am Fri, 5 Jun 2020 21:31:26 -0400 schrieb Frank Krygowski
:

On 6/5/2020 7:32 PM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:

I own and ride a road bike equipped with a an Ultegra 3x10 group from
2010 (6703, AFAIR) and I'm quite happy with it. Changing gears ist
easy, fast and works like a charm. Except when it it doesn't. Problem
is, the construction is a mechanical nightmare. I bought it specifically
because both cables (bowden cable?), both those for braking and those
for changing gears are routed along the handle bar, so that there is
enough space between the handles to moutn a large Ortlieb handlebar bag.
Have look at
https://pluspora.com/posts/296e60b0625701384a38005056264835, fifth
picture or
https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/20200416/DSC01809.jpg

Changing the inner cable is difficult, when one of the wires is already
broken. Somehow I damaged an tiny spring while removing the old cable.
In consequence, the whole expensive grip had to be replaced.

...

But mainly, I'd really like to get rid of all those arkwardly routed
cables, which break much to often.

Interesting. I have always used large handlebar bags on (almost) all
bikes.

So do I.

197x ff: https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/loire1.jpg
1996-2010: https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/IMG-2461.JPG

Gadzooks. No offense, but that last photo looks like a dumpster find -- except for the undoubtedly expensive hydro rim brakes. What do you use for a fun, fast ride? I hope you at least remove the kickstand.

-- Jay Beattie.




mmmm, kickstand.
Remove in emergency as a riot baton.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 6/7/2020 10:09 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, June 7, 2020 at 5:04:30 PM UTC+2, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 7 June 2020 10:53:16 UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, June 7, 2020 at 3:35:42 AM UTC-7, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
Am Fri, 5 Jun 2020 21:31:26 -0400 schrieb Frank Krygowski
:

On 6/5/2020 7:32 PM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:

I own and ride a road bike equipped with a an Ultegra 3x10 group from
2010 (6703, AFAIR) and I'm quite happy with it. Changing gears ist
easy, fast and works like a charm. Except when it it doesn't. Problem
is, the construction is a mechanical nightmare. I bought it specifically
because both cables (bowden cable?), both those for braking and those
for changing gears are routed along the handle bar, so that there is
enough space between the handles to moutn a large Ortlieb handlebar bag.
Have look at
https://pluspora.com/posts/296e60b0625701384a38005056264835, fifth
picture or
https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/20200416/DSC01809.jpg

Changing the inner cable is difficult, when one of the wires is already
broken. Somehow I damaged an tiny spring while removing the old cable.
In consequence, the whole expensive grip had to be replaced.

...

But mainly, I'd really like to get rid of all those arkwardly routed
cables, which break much to often.

Interesting. I have always used large handlebar bags on (almost) all
bikes.

So do I.

197x ff: https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/loire1.jpg
1996-2010: https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/IMG-2461.JPG

Gadzooks. No offense, but that last photo looks like a dumpster find -- except for the undoubtedly expensive hydro rim brakes. What do you use for a fun, fast ride? I hope you at least remove the kickstand.

-- Jay Beattie.

Wolfgang Strobl, in regards to IMG_2461, how do you stay on t hat saddle? Don't your arms get sore?

Cheers

That puzzles me too.

Lou


Well and truly, people like what they like. Inexplicably.

I once took pity on a rider and leveled a similar saddle.
The lecture after was loud and unpleasant.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 6/7/2020 11:05 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/7/2020 9:50 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 7 June 2020 10:43:20 UTC-4, Â* wrote:
Op zondag 7 juni 2020 16:35:52 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 6/7/2020 10:17 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 7 June 2020 06:35:42 UTC-4, Wolfgang StroblÂ* wrote:
Snipped
The owner of a bicycle shop, whom I consulted for getting a
replacement
shifter tried to convince me to use a an older shifter, he called
them
"Wäscheleinenschalthebel", clotheeslines shifter, because these
didn't
have this - to him - well known reliability problem.Â* For me, this
wasn't an option, because I very much rely on my large handle bar
bag.

My wife rides a Scott bicycle with the older 105 3x10 version of the
group, which actually has these clotheslines.

https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/scott.png

She actually would like to have a decent handlebar bag, too, but
alas,
that's not possible her. On the positive side, those shifters work
flawlessly, so far.
Snipped

I've seen people using those exposed "clothesline" shifter cable
housings to clip their route crib sheets to. they put the sheets
inside a clear plastic cover and then use a couple of binder clips
to clip them to those cable housings.

Some other people apparently have use the noodles from V-brakes to
direct those cable housings away from their handlebar bag.

https://thecrazyrandonneur.wordpress...-sti-shifters/



A good tip, I think. I've seen people cram a small handlebar bag in
there by just letting those "clothesline" cables flex out of the way.
The noodles look much more elegant.


--
- Frank Krygowski

If you still see the clotheslines models is prove of the reliability
of STI.

Lou

I find it to be quite interesting that Campagnolo had their Ergo
shifter cable routed under the handlebar tape/wrap LONG before Shimano
did.

Cheers


Ergos have an undocumented (probably unintended as well) design
feature;Â* The gear wire wraps on its capstan in a different plane from
STi so although they do fail, they fail less often and the cable stumps
don't jam inside. As Ergo riders have discovered, the first frays of a
gear wire stick through the rubber cover into the rider's palm, just
enough to notice, before the wire breaks altogether.

Agree entirely with the Ergo description. I have felt the "Ergo prick
in the palm" [restrain your dirty minds!] many times over 20 years using
Ergo, but I never knew it was a design feature.

Mark J.

On 6/7/2020 1:14 PM, Mark J. wrote:
On 6/7/2020 11:05 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/7/2020 9:50 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 7 June 2020 10:43:20 UTC-4,
 wrote:
Op zondag 7 juni 2020 16:35:52 UTC+2 schreef Frank
Krygowski:
On 6/7/2020 10:17 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 7 June 2020 06:35:42 UTC-4, Wolfgang
Strobl wrote:
Snipped
The owner of a bicycle shop, whom I consulted for
getting a replacement
shifter tried to convince me to use a an older
shifter, he called them
"Wäscheleinenschalthebel", clotheeslines shifter,
because these didn't
have this - to him - well known reliability
problem. For me, this
wasn't an option, because I very much rely on my
large handle bar bag.

My wife rides a Scott bicycle with the older 105 3x10
version of the
group, which actually has these clotheslines.

https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/scott.png

She actually would like to have a decent handlebar
bag, too, but alas,
that's not possible her. On the positive side, those
shifters work
flawlessly, so far.
Snipped

I've seen people using those exposed "clothesline"
shifter cable housings to clip their route crib sheets
to. they put the sheets inside a clear plastic cover
and then use a couple of binder clips to clip them to
those cable housings.

Some other people apparently have use the noodles from
V-brakes to direct those cable housings away from
their handlebar bag.

https://thecrazyrandonneur.wordpress...-sti-shifters/



A good tip, I think. I've seen people cram a small
handlebar bag in
there by just letting those "clothesline" cables flex
out of the way.
The noodles look much more elegant.


--
- Frank Krygowski

If you still see the clotheslines models is prove of the
reliability of STI.

Lou

I find it to be quite interesting that Campagnolo had
their Ergo shifter cable routed under the handlebar
tape/wrap LONG before Shimano did.

Cheers


Ergos have an undocumented (probably unintended as well)
design feature;Â The gear wire wraps on its capstan in a
different plane from STi so although they do fail, they
fail less often and the cable stumps don't jam inside. As
Ergo riders have discovered, the first frays of a gear
wire stick through the rubber cover into the rider's palm,
just enough to notice, before the wire breaks altogether.

Agree entirely with the Ergo description. I have felt the
"Ergo prick in the palm" [restrain your dirty minds!] many
times over 20 years using Ergo, but I never knew it was a
design feature.

Mark J.


I suspect that was not intended, but you have to admit you'd
not think about gear wire replacement otherwise.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, 7 June 2020 14:25:13 UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/7/2020 1:14 PM, Mark J. wrote:
On 6/7/2020 11:05 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/7/2020 9:50 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 7 June 2020 10:43:20 UTC-4,
 wrote:
Op zondag 7 juni 2020 16:35:52 UTC+2 schreef Frank
Krygowski:
On 6/7/2020 10:17 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 7 June 2020 06:35:42 UTC-4, Wolfgang
Strobl wrote:
Snipped
The owner of a bicycle shop, whom I consulted for
getting a replacement
shifter tried to convince me to use a an older
shifter, he called them
"Wäscheleinenschalthebel", clotheeslines shifter,
because these didn't
have this - to him - well known reliability
problem. For me, this
wasn't an option, because I very much rely on my
large handle bar bag.

My wife rides a Scott bicycle with the older 105 3x10
version of the
group, which actually has these clotheslines.

https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/scott.png

She actually would like to have a decent handlebar
bag, too, but alas,
that's not possible her. On the positive side, those
shifters work
flawlessly, so far.
Snipped

I've seen people using those exposed "clothesline"
shifter cable housings to clip their route crib sheets
to. they put the sheets inside a clear plastic cover
and then use a couple of binder clips to clip them to
those cable housings.

Some other people apparently have use the noodles from
V-brakes to direct those cable housings away from
their handlebar bag.

https://thecrazyrandonneur.wordpress...-sti-shifters/



A good tip, I think. I've seen people cram a small
handlebar bag in
there by just letting those "clothesline" cables flex
out of the way.
The noodles look much more elegant.


--
- Frank Krygowski

If you still see the clotheslines models is prove of the
reliability of STI.

Lou

I find it to be quite interesting that Campagnolo had
their Ergo shifter cable routed under the handlebar
tape/wrap LONG before Shimano did.

Cheers


Ergos have an undocumented (probably unintended as well)
design feature;Â The gear wire wraps on its capstan in a
different plane from STi so although they do fail, they
fail less often and the cable stumps don't jam inside. As
Ergo riders have discovered, the first frays of a gear
wire stick through the rubber cover into the rider's palm,
just enough to notice, before the wire breaks altogether.

Agree entirely with the Ergo description. I have felt the
"Ergo prick in the palm" [restrain your dirty minds!] many
times over 20 years using Ergo, but I never knew it was a
design feature.

Mark J.


I suspect that was not intended, but you have to admit you'd
not think about gear wire replacement otherwise.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

The other thing I liked about my 2001 (-speed Mirage Ergos was that they could be rebuilt. In fact you could rebuild them as either 8-speed, 9-speed or 10-speed. IIRC the kit was $50.00

Cheers

On Sunday, June 7, 2020 at 11:05:03 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/7/2020 9:50 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 7 June 2020 10:43:20 UTC-4, wrote:
Op zondag 7 juni 2020 16:35:52 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 6/7/2020 10:17 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 7 June 2020 06:35:42 UTC-4, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
Snipped
The owner of a bicycle shop, whom I consulted for getting a replacement
shifter tried to convince me to use a an older shifter, he called them
"Wäscheleinenschalthebel", clotheeslines shifter, because these didn't
have this - to him - well known reliability problem. For me, this
wasn't an option, because I very much rely on my large handle bar bag.

My wife rides a Scott bicycle with the older 105 3x10 version of the
group, which actually has these clotheslines.

https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/scott.png

She actually would like to have a decent handlebar bag, too, but alas,
that's not possible her. On the positive side, those shifters work
flawlessly, so far.
Snipped

I've seen people using those exposed "clothesline" shifter cable housings to clip their route crib sheets to. they put the sheets inside a clear plastic cover and then use a couple of binder clips to clip them to those cable housings.

Some other people apparently have use the noodles from V-brakes to direct those cable housings away from their handlebar bag.

https://thecrazyrandonneur.wordpress...-sti-shifters/


A good tip, I think. I've seen people cram a small handlebar bag in
there by just letting those "clothesline" cables flex out of the way.
The noodles look much more elegant.


--
- Frank Krygowski

If you still see the clotheslines models is prove of the reliability of STI.

Lou

I find it to be quite interesting that Campagnolo had their Ergo shifter cable routed under the handlebar tape/wrap LONG before Shimano did.

Cheers


Ergos have an undocumented (probably unintended as well)
design feature; The gear wire wraps on its capstan in a
different plane from STi so although they do fail, they fail
less often and the cable stumps don't jam inside. As Ergo
riders have discovered, the first frays of a gear wire stick
through the rubber cover into the rider's palm, just enough
to notice, before the wire breaks altogether.


In 28 years of using STI, I've broken one shift cable. I've found frayed cables in the lever and changed those before they failed -- maybe one or two. I do think all the hard angles and internal guides necessary for the Shimano design do present more opportunity for cable failure, but the failure rate for me has been low.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 6/7/2020 1:42 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 7 June 2020 14:25:13 UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/7/2020 1:14 PM, Mark J. wrote:
On 6/7/2020 11:05 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/7/2020 9:50 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 7 June 2020 10:43:20 UTC-4,
 wrote:
Op zondag 7 juni 2020 16:35:52 UTC+2 schreef Frank
Krygowski:
On 6/7/2020 10:17 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 7 June 2020 06:35:42 UTC-4, Wolfgang
Strobl wrote:
Snipped
The owner of a bicycle shop, whom I consulted for
getting a replacement
shifter tried to convince me to use a an older
shifter, he called them
"Wäscheleinenschalthebel", clotheeslines shifter,
because these didn't
have this - to him - well known reliability
problem. For me, this
wasn't an option, because I very much rely on my
large handle bar bag.

My wife rides a Scott bicycle with the older 105 3x10
version of the
group, which actually has these clotheslines.

https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/scott.png

She actually would like to have a decent handlebar
bag, too, but alas,
that's not possible her. On the positive side, those
shifters work
flawlessly, so far.
Snipped

I've seen people using those exposed "clothesline"
shifter cable housings to clip their route crib sheets
to. they put the sheets inside a clear plastic cover
and then use a couple of binder clips to clip them to
those cable housings.

Some other people apparently have use the noodles from
V-brakes to direct those cable housings away from
their handlebar bag.

https://thecrazyrandonneur.wordpress...-sti-shifters/



A good tip, I think. I've seen people cram a small
handlebar bag in
there by just letting those "clothesline" cables flex
out of the way.
The noodles look much more elegant.


--
- Frank Krygowski

If you still see the clotheslines models is prove of the
reliability of STI.

Lou

I find it to be quite interesting that Campagnolo had
their Ergo shifter cable routed under the handlebar
tape/wrap LONG before Shimano did.

Cheers


Ergos have an undocumented (probably unintended as well)
design feature;Â The gear wire wraps on its capstan in a
different plane from STi so although they do fail, they
fail less often and the cable stumps don't jam inside. As
Ergo riders have discovered, the first frays of a gear
wire stick through the rubber cover into the rider's palm,
just enough to notice, before the wire breaks altogether.

Agree entirely with the Ergo description. I have felt the
"Ergo prick in the palm" [restrain your dirty minds!] many
times over 20 years using Ergo, but I never knew it was a
design feature.

Mark J.


I suspect that was not intended, but you have to admit you'd
not think about gear wire replacement otherwise.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

The other thing I liked about my 2001 (-speed Mirage Ergos was that they could be rebuilt. In fact you could rebuild them as either 8-speed, 9-speed or 10-speed. IIRC the kit was $50.00

Cheers


Yep, riders who have them love them.

But Gresham's Law of Gear Shifters ...

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 6/7/2020 11:42 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 7 June 2020 14:25:13 UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/7/2020 1:14 PM, Mark J. wrote:
On 6/7/2020 11:05 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/7/2020 9:50 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 7 June 2020 10:43:20 UTC-4,
 wrote:
Op zondag 7 juni 2020 16:35:52 UTC+2 schreef Frank
Krygowski:
On 6/7/2020 10:17 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 7 June 2020 06:35:42 UTC-4, Wolfgang
Strobl wrote:
Snipped
The owner of a bicycle shop, whom I consulted for
getting a replacement
shifter tried to convince me to use a an older
shifter, he called them
"Wäscheleinenschalthebel", clotheeslines shifter,
because these didn't
have this - to him - well known reliability
problem. For me, this
wasn't an option, because I very much rely on my
large handle bar bag.

My wife rides a Scott bicycle with the older 105 3x10
version of the
group, which actually has these clotheslines.

https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/scott.png

She actually would like to have a decent handlebar
bag, too, but alas,
that's not possible her. On the positive side, those
shifters work
flawlessly, so far.
Snipped

I've seen people using those exposed "clothesline"
shifter cable housings to clip their route crib sheets
to. they put the sheets inside a clear plastic cover
and then use a couple of binder clips to clip them to
those cable housings.

Some other people apparently have use the noodles from
V-brakes to direct those cable housings away from
their handlebar bag.

https://thecrazyrandonneur.wordpress...-sti-shifters/



A good tip, I think. I've seen people cram a small
handlebar bag in
there by just letting those "clothesline" cables flex
out of the way.
The noodles look much more elegant.


--
- Frank Krygowski

If you still see the clotheslines models is prove of the
reliability of STI.

Lou

I find it to be quite interesting that Campagnolo had
their Ergo shifter cable routed under the handlebar
tape/wrap LONG before Shimano did.

Cheers


Ergos have an undocumented (probably unintended as well)
design feature;Â The gear wire wraps on its capstan in a
different plane from STi so although they do fail, they
fail less often and the cable stumps don't jam inside. As
Ergo riders have discovered, the first frays of a gear
wire stick through the rubber cover into the rider's palm,
just enough to notice, before the wire breaks altogether.

Agree entirely with the Ergo description. I have felt the
"Ergo prick in the palm" [restrain your dirty minds!] many
times over 20 years using Ergo, but I never knew it was a
design feature.

Mark J.


I suspect that was not intended, but you have to admit you'd
not think about gear wire replacement otherwise.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

The other thing I liked about my 2001 (-speed Mirage Ergos was that they could be rebuilt. In fact you could rebuild them as either 8-speed, 9-speed or 10-speed. IIRC the kit was $50.00

Cheers

Exactly. I've rebuilt Campy levers 4-5 times (20+ years and I shift a
LOT). I'm tolerating the Shimanos that came on my gravel bike a lot
more, though, than I did the ones on my Domane - those long since
swapped for Campy. Maybe I /can/ store two distinct shift motions in my
subconscious - subconscious for when the brain goes on holiday toward
the top of long killer climbs.

Campy's newer models, at least the mid-range, appear to be
non-rebuildable. It would be great if they simply don't /need/ it. I'm
not clear on the consensus around recent Shimano brifters. I read fewer
complaints about scrapped, malfunctioning and non-repairable Shimano
brifters these days than, say, ten years ago.

Mark "shifts two ways?" J.