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#1
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Miche Primato Pista bits
Hi all,
I did a nice 70km ride on the weekend with a bunch of local troublemakers, one of whom rode the whole time without once coasting. This strange behaviour got me to thinking, I've got an old steel roadie in the garage with those much sought after horizontal dropouts, and a rear triangle that was brazed together when five speed freewheels were plentiful, that's been quietly gathering dust since I built my go faster aluminium massively overgeared clicky lever bike. So I thought about it a bit, and figured it'd be lots of fun to put track cranks and wheels on it, and throw away that nasty back brake for ever, and see if I can break myself of this terrible coasting habit. Further down the track (pun entirely intended) I could go and talk to a framebuilder and get a real track frame (or perhaps even a box of tubes and lugs), put my shiny new cranks and wheels on it, and see how much I can scare myself going around in circles (but always pedalling of course). In any case, I cast around on the net looking for suitable candidates, and decided Record is ridiculously expensive, as is Dura-Ace. Next down the list seems to be the Miche Primato bits, which seem at first glance to strike a good compromise between shinyness and expense. Are they as nice as they look? I see they use cartridge bearings. What do I do when said bearings disintegrate? I'm used to my nice Campy cup & cone hubs where one simply pulls everything apart and gives it all a scrub and some nice new grease occasionally, and one can buy new balls and new cones should the need arise. The next issue is that the cranks are 135mm PCD, whereas most other track cranks seem to be 144. Is this likely to cause grief? Finally, is it an issue squeezing the back end of a 126mm wide bike down to 120mm? It's had 130mm wide wheels forced into it before without significant complaint. Anyways, I was hoping to con some advice out of others who use these bits. Regards, Suzy |
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#2
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Miche Primato Pista bits
On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 08:28:32 GMT, "Suzy Jackson"
wrote: Hi all, I did a nice 70km ride on the weekend with a bunch of local troublemakers, one of whom rode the whole time without once coasting. This strange behaviour got me to thinking, I've got an old steel roadie in the garage with those much sought after horizontal dropouts, and a rear triangle that was brazed together when five speed freewheels were plentiful, that's been quietly gathering dust since I built my go faster aluminium massively overgeared clicky lever bike. So I thought about it a bit, and figured it'd be lots of fun to put track cranks and wheels on it, and throw away that nasty back brake for ever, and see if I can break myself of this terrible coasting habit. Further down the track (pun entirely intended) I could go and talk to a framebuilder and get a real track frame (or perhaps even a box of tubes and lugs), put my shiny new cranks and wheels on it, and see how much I can scare myself going around in circles (but always pedalling of course). In any case, I cast around on the net looking for suitable candidates, and decided Record is ridiculously expensive, as is Dura-Ace. Next down the list seems to be the Miche Primato bits, which seem at first glance to strike a good compromise between shinyness and expense. Are they as nice as they look? I see they use cartridge bearings. What do I do when said bearings disintegrate? I'm used to my nice Campy cup & cone hubs where one simply pulls everything apart and gives it all a scrub and some nice new grease occasionally, and one can buy new balls and new cones should the need arise. Go to a bearing shop and buy new cartridges for a few dollars each, and beg borrow or steal the required bearing pullers and puches from a motorcycle workshop The next issue is that the cranks are 135mm PCD, whereas most other track cranks seem to be 144. Is this likely to cause grief? It's the standard pcd for Campag road race rings now, so getting replacements is easy (i.e. you can use Miche, Campag, TA, Stronglight and probably one or two other manufacturers' aftermarket rings, even if you ever manage to wear out the original, which will take a while). Even easier to get 130mm (Shimano standard) rings for the even lovelier (but more expensive) TA track cranks, though. Finally, is it an issue squeezing the back end of a 126mm wide bike down to 120mm? It's had 130mm wide wheels forced into it before without significant complaint. My steel bike hasn't complained about exactly this kind of abuse yet, and there are hundreds of old steel road frames living daily with the track hub squeeze, so don't worry Anyways, I was hoping to con some advice out of others who use these bits. Regards, Suzy Finally, if you do a google search of r.b.t on terms like fixed, track hubs, Miche etc, you'll find we've been discussingall these things at great length for years. Kinky Cowboy *Your milage may vary Batteries not included May contain traces of nuts. |
#3
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Miche Primato Pista bits
If it's just for fun, then find an old set of wheels from before cassette
hubs - one with a freewheel. Then remove the freewheel and screw on a track cog. Any wheel that old will likely have narrow spacing. In fact the wheels on your old bike might work fine. And your cranks will work fine too. If you find you like riding a fixed then you can start thinking about upgrading parts. I always used old stuff sitting around for years. Once I even used a Biopace chainrring - it's excentricity was dispersed eveningly so the chain didn't change tension too much. Fixed can be fun. -Bruce "Suzy Jackson" wrote in message ... Hi all, I did a nice 70km ride on the weekend with a bunch of local troublemakers, one of whom rode the whole time without once coasting. This strange behaviour got me to thinking, I've got an old steel roadie in the garage with those much sought after horizontal dropouts, and a rear triangle that was brazed together when five speed freewheels were plentiful, that's been quietly gathering dust since I built my go faster aluminium massively overgeared clicky lever bike. So I thought about it a bit, and figured it'd be lots of fun to put track cranks and wheels on it, and throw away that nasty back brake for ever, and see if I can break myself of this terrible coasting habit. Further down the track (pun entirely intended) I could go and talk to a framebuilder and get a real track frame (or perhaps even a box of tubes and lugs), put my shiny new cranks and wheels on it, and see how much I can scare myself going around in circles (but always pedalling of course). In any case, I cast around on the net looking for suitable candidates, and decided Record is ridiculously expensive, as is Dura-Ace. Next down the list seems to be the Miche Primato bits, which seem at first glance to strike a good compromise between shinyness and expense. Are they as nice as they look? I see they use cartridge bearings. What do I do when said bearings disintegrate? I'm used to my nice Campy cup & cone hubs where one simply pulls everything apart and gives it all a scrub and some nice new grease occasionally, and one can buy new balls and new cones should the need arise. The next issue is that the cranks are 135mm PCD, whereas most other track cranks seem to be 144. Is this likely to cause grief? Finally, is it an issue squeezing the back end of a 126mm wide bike down to 120mm? It's had 130mm wide wheels forced into it before without significant complaint. Anyways, I was hoping to con some advice out of others who use these bits. Regards, Suzy |
#4
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Miche Primato Pista bits
On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 08:28:32 +0000, Suzy Jackson wrote:
... I've got an old steel roadie in the garage with those much sought after horizontal dropouts, and a rear triangle that was brazed together when five speed freewheels were plentiful, that's been quietly gathering dust since I built my go faster aluminium massively overgeared clicky lever bike. So I thought about it a bit, and figured it'd be lots of fun to put track cranks and wheels on it, and throw away that nasty back brake for ever, and see if I can break myself of this terrible coasting habit. Further down the track (pun entirely intended) I could go and talk to a framebuilder and get a real track frame (or perhaps even a box of tubes and lugs), put my shiny new cranks and wheels on it, and see how much I can scare myself going around in circles (but always pedalling of course). The bike already has darn near everything you need on it. If I were you I would start with that. Use the place where the inner ring goes and the chainline will usually be pretty good. My advice would be to get a rear track hub so you have a lockring, a cog and a chain, and take off all the stuff that you no longer need. Done. When you get the real track bike, then is the time to worry about track cranks and other bits. In any case, I cast around on the net looking for suitable candidates, and decided Record is ridiculously expensive, as is Dura-Ace. There's a surprise *Next down the list seems to be the Miche Primato bits, which seem at first glance to strike a good compromise between shinyness and expense. Are they as nice as they look? I haven't seen any up close and personal, so no specific comments. IIRC a friend uses their hubs and likes them. I see they use cartridge bearings. What do I do when said bearings disintegrate? Buy a new one, This is, to me, a disadvantage. Of course, cartridge bottom brackets have shown their reliability, so maybe these hubs will last well, too. The next issue is that the cranks are 135mm PCD, whereas most other track cranks seem to be 144. Is this likely to cause grief? 135? Finding new rings will be a RPITA, probably. But if you use 1/8" it may be a long while before you need to worry about a new ring. Finally, is it an issue squeezing the back end of a 126mm wide bike down to 120mm? It's had 130mm wide wheels forced into it before without significant complaint. It might be easier to add a couple mm of spacer to either side of the hub. Not likely to cause trouble. -- David L. Johnson __o | Some people used to claim that, if enough monkeys sat in front _`\(,_ | of enough typewriters and typed long enough, eventually one of (_)/ (_) | them would reproduce the collected works of Shakespeare. The internet has proven this not to be the case. |
#5
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Miche Primato Pista bits
If it's just for fun, then find an old set of wheels from before cassette
hubs - one with a freewheel. Then remove the freewheel and screw on a track cog. i wouldn't do that - you can't get a lockring to stay on. the one time you really need to backpedal effectively, it'll unscrew. i know - i have a scar from when i encountered this issue as a kid. jb |
#6
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Miche Primato Pista bits
jim beam wrote:
If it's just for fun, then find an old set of wheels from before cassette hubs - one with a freewheel. Then remove the freewheel and screw on a track cog. i wouldn't do that - you can't get a lockring to stay on. the one time you really need to backpedal effectively, it'll unscrew. If this is a worry, you could leave the rear brake on until you decide to upgrade to a real track hub. I'm not claiming it never happens, but I don't recall ever being in a situation where I've needed to brake hard with the rear. I seldom bike in conditions where there is likely to be poor traction, though. -- Benjamin Lewis Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society. - Mark Twain |
#7
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Miche Primato Pista bits
"Suzy Jackson" wrote in message ... Hi all, I did a nice 70km ride on the weekend with a bunch of local troublemakers, one of whom rode the whole time without once coasting. This strange behaviour got me to thinking, I've got an old steel roadie in the garage with those much sought after horizontal dropouts, and a rear triangle that was brazed together when five speed freewheels were plentiful, that's been quietly gathering dust since I built my go faster aluminium massively overgeared clicky lever bike. So I thought about it a bit, and figured it'd be lots of fun to put track cranks and wheels on it, and throw away that nasty back brake for ever, and see if I can break myself of this terrible coasting habit. Further down the track (pun entirely intended) I could go and talk to a framebuilder and get a real track frame (or perhaps even a box of tubes and lugs), put my shiny new cranks and wheels on it, and see how much I can scare myself going around in circles (but always pedalling of course). At least you're not jumping in with both feet, spending a lot of money, THEN finding out that track racing is a very hard discipline. (unless you're riding a 55cm track frame, then I lose) Hell, I was racing on an old track frame that a redneck friend of mine unbent. I got if from a courier in DC that had a discussion with a car. The bike cost me about $40 to put together. Rode it till I got my first custom bike. On the track, it usually ISN'T the bike doing the holding back. In any case, I cast around on the net looking for suitable candidates, and decided Record is ridiculously expensive, as is Dura-Ace. Next down the list seems to be the Miche Primato bits, which seem at first glance to strike a good compromise between shinyness and expense. Are they as nice as they look? I see they use cartridge bearings. What do I do when said bearings disintegrate? I'm used to my nice Campy cup & cone hubs where one simply pulls everything apart and gives it all a scrub and some nice new grease occasionally, and one can buy new balls and new cones should the need arise. I'll second the motion further down of finding a FW hubset. I'll refine the recommendation by saying that if you're running fixed, replace the axle with a bolt-on and redish the wheel. My first track wheel was built out of a MA40 rim and a Specialized FW hub. Worked great, even spinning VERY fast going down some of the hills betweeen Alexandria and Fairfax, VA. If you're set on riding a track hub, check out the Sugino Pro Max too. There's always someone out there with a pair of used track hubs. I'm running Superbe hubs on my track bike and love them. The next issue is that the cranks are 135mm PCD, whereas most other track cranks seem to be 144. Is this likely to cause grief? For the first iteration of the bike, I'd recommend running whatcha got now. Stick with the road pitch equipment till you decide that this track racing thing's for you. I used to run a 42x17 setup most winters. Easy enough that you can spin on the flats, but not so big you screw up your knees on the hills. Colorado Cyclist sells road pitch track cogs in varying sizes. Check out www.fixedgearfever.com for a gear inch chart and www.businesscycles.com for all things track. Your LBS can also order things from EuroAsia. They have some of the nicest track cogs these days Finally, is it an issue squeezing the back end of a 126mm wide bike down to 120mm? It's had 130mm wide wheels forced into it before without significant complaint. Why squeeze when you can space out an axle easier? See above about the rear wheel. Anyways, I was hoping to con some advice out of others who use these bits. Even though Sheldon doesn't use his rear brake, I'd still recommend keeping it on till definitively proven that you don't need it. I'd also recommend a single speed FW for larger group rides. Yes, this means that you can coast. It also means that you can react to what the idiot in front of you is doing in an emergency better. For a few friends out for a little ride, fixed is fine. If you can remember rule #1 of fixed gear riding: never, EVER, stop pedaling, you'll do OK. If you do forget rule #1, relax your knees. Let the crank turn them over for a bit. If you don't, you'll probably get launched. Regards, Suzy That help? Mike |
#8
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Miche Primato Pista bits
Suzy Jackson wrote:
I did a nice 70km ride on the weekend with a bunch of local troublemakers, one of whom rode the whole time without once coasting. This strange behaviour got me to thinking, I've got an old steel roadie in the garage with those much sought after horizontal dropouts, and a rear triangle that was brazed together when five speed freewheels were plentiful, that's been quietly gathering dust since I built my go faster aluminium massively overgeared clicky lever bike. So I thought about it a bit, and figured it'd be lots of fun to put track cranks and wheels on it, and throw away that nasty back brake for ever, and see if I can break myself of this terrible coasting habit. Further down the track (pun entirely intended) I could go and talk to a framebuilder and get a real track frame (or perhaps even a box of tubes and lugs), put my shiny new cranks and wheels on it, and see how much I can scare myself going around in circles (but always pedalling of course). In any case, I cast around on the net looking for suitable candidates, and decided Record is ridiculously expensive, as is Dura-Ace. Next down the list seems to be the Miche Primato bits, which seem at first glance to strike a good compromise between shinyness and expense. Are they as nice as they look? I see they use cartridge bearings. What do I do when said bearings disintegrate? I'm used to my nice Campy cup & cone hubs where one simply pulls everything apart and gives it all a scrub and some nice new grease occasionally, and one can buy new balls and new cones should the need arise. The next issue is that the cranks are 135mm PCD, whereas most other track cranks seem to be 144. Is this likely to cause grief? Yes. Miche is the only source for track rings in this BCD. Other manufacturers make shifty type rings, which will work, but generally the selection in this oddball BCD is sparse. My advice is to use a typical "road" crankset, such as you may already own, and remove the outer ring. A cheap set of BMX chainring bolts will be needed. Finally, is it an issue squeezing the back end of a 126mm wide bike down to 120mm? It's had 130mm wide wheels forced into it before without significant complaint. It would make more sense to build up the axle by adding a pair of 3 mm spacers beneath the locknuts. The Miche hubs are OK, but nothing special. I'd recommend Surly or Suzue...actually, for you, definitely SUZue! See: http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/fixed.html#hubs My Website has a great deal of material on fixed-gears for road use, see: http://sheldonbrown.com/fixed. Sheldon "Coasting Is Bad For You" Brown +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | I still feel that variable gears are only for people over | | forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength | | of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailleur? | | We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear! | | --Henri Desgrange, _L'Equipe_ article of 1902 | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com |
#9
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Miche Primato Pista bits
On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 12:09:21 +0000, Mike S. wrote:
I'll second the motion further down of finding a FW hubset. This is an old discussion, but I disagree. At least make sure to lock-tite the sprocket on if you do this. If you're set on riding a track hub, check out the Sugino Pro Max too. There's always someone out there with a pair of used track hubs. I'm running Superbe hubs on my track bike and love them. I have a Dura-Ace double-sided rear which is the best-designed hub I've seen. It is also nice to be able to turn it around for a second gear in case you need it. IMO double-sided fixed is better than fixed/free. For the first iteration of the bike, I'd recommend running whatcha got now. Agreed. racing thing's for you. I used to run a 42x17 setup most winters. That is kinda low. You will find yourself spinning at 110 or more just to keep up with a slow group. I*use that for my hilly commute, but a 42/16 gives a better all-around gear. Even though Sheldon doesn't use his rear brake, I'd still recommend keeping it on till definitively proven that you don't need it. I concur. The biggest advantage is that you have a second brake hood to hang on to. Most of us spend much of our time on the hoods when using a road bike; it makes sense to have the same for the fixed gear. If you do race, a second set of bars/stem makes switching for the track pretty easy. I'd also recommend a single speed FW for larger group rides. Nah. means that you can coast. It also means that you can react to what the idiot in front of you is doing in an emergency better. No, no no. The beauty of a fixed gear, and why it survives on the track, is that you can react more quickly than with brakes. You can't come to a full stop quickly, but you can get out of someone's way much faster. You just think about slowing down, and it happens because you naturally slow your cadence. If you can remember rule #1 of fixed gear riding: never, EVER, stop pedaling, you'll do OK. The bike will remind you about that quite forcefully. -- David L. Johnson __o | Some people used to claim that, if enough monkeys sat in front _`\(,_ | of enough typewriters and typed long enough, eventually one of (_)/ (_) | them would reproduce the collected works of Shakespeare. The internet has proven this not to be the case. |
#10
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Miche Primato Pista bits
"Suzy Jackson" wrote in message
... Hi all, I did a nice 70km ride on the weekend with a bunch of local troublemakers, one of whom rode the whole time without once coasting. This strange behaviour got me to thinking, I've got an old steel roadie in the garage with those much sought after horizontal dropouts, and a rear triangle that was brazed together when five speed freewheels were plentiful, that's been quietly gathering dust since I built my go faster aluminium massively overgeared clicky lever bike. So I thought about it a bit, and figured it'd be lots of fun to put track cranks and wheels on it, and throw away that nasty back brake for ever, and see if I can break myself of this terrible coasting habit. Further down the track (pun entirely intended) I could go and talk to a framebuilder and get a real track frame (or perhaps even a box of tubes and lugs), put my shiny new cranks and wheels on it, and see how much I can scare myself going around in circles (but always pedalling of course). In any case, I cast around on the net looking for suitable candidates, and decided Record is ridiculously expensive, as is Dura-Ace. Next down the list seems to be the Miche Primato bits, which seem at first glance to strike a good compromise between shinyness and expense. Are they as nice as they look? I see they use cartridge bearings. What do I do when said bearings disintegrate? I'm used to my nice Campy cup & cone hubs where one simply pulls everything apart and gives it all a scrub and some nice new grease occasionally, and one can buy new balls and new cones should the need arise. The next issue is that the cranks are 135mm PCD, whereas most other track cranks seem to be 144. Is this likely to cause grief? Finally, is it an issue squeezing the back end of a 126mm wide bike down to 120mm? It's had 130mm wide wheels forced into it before without significant complaint. Anyways, I was hoping to con some advice out of others who use these bits. The Miche equipment is OK and I stock it but you needn't be restricted to "pista" gear. Here's our opinion about cheap urban fixed parts: http://www.yellowjersey.org/sensible.html The only thing you absolutley need IMHO is a fixed hub with reverse threaded lockring and a track cog. There are others who feel even that can be kludged by screwing a single cog on a freewheel hub. I don't/won't do that but there was a heated discussion on the topic here a year ago if you want to peruse the arguments. A Suzue fixed hub is dirt cheap BTW. And 135mm is the same as your Chorus crank. 39, 40, 42, 50, 52, 53 from Campagnolo and those plus 44, 45, 46 from Stronglight, inter alia. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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