A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Social Issues
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

The Great Don Quijote of RBM!



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old August 3rd 07, 04:34 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.soc,uk.rec.cycling
T. Ling Yu
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 135
Default The Great Don Quijote of RBM!

donquijote1954 wrote in
oups.com:

On Aug 3, 7:49 am, "Keats" wrote:

How did anyone on this planet survive for those millions of years
before the invention of under arm deodorant and automobile air
conditioners? Wouldn't they too seem to be a basic human right,
Jeff?-


I don't know about those, but the right to ride a bike in safety
should be a human right.


I think it's covered in the UDHR, under article 3, and to some
extent, article 5 with regard to roadies vs freds and lycra vs
denim.

http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html
Ads
  #22  
Old August 3rd 07, 05:26 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.soc,uk.rec.cycling
Keats
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 184
Default The Great Don Quijote of RBM!


"donquijote1954" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Aug 2, 10:56 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
wrote:



The governments (federal, state and local) in the U.S. (and many other
countries) use taxes to discourage behavior and tax breaks to encourage
behavior. I am merely recommending the proper use of this common policy
tool.


The use it here too! Just that they give tax breaks and all kinds of
facilities to those at the top. Have you noticed that 99% fo the bike
paths are concentrated where the big people live?


If the midgets aren't complaining, then so what?


  #23  
Old August 3rd 07, 05:49 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.soc,uk.rec.cycling
Bill Sornson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,098
Default The Great Don Quijote of RBM!

Keats wrote:
"donquijote1954" wrote in message
oups.com...

\

The use it here too! Just that they give tax breaks and all kinds of
facilities to those at the top. Have you noticed that 99% fo the bike
paths are concentrated where the big people live?


If the midgets aren't complaining, then so what?


POTW!


  #24  
Old August 3rd 07, 07:45 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.soc,uk.rec.cycling
donquijote1954
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,851
Default The Great Don Quijote of RBM!

On Aug 3, 12:26 pm, "Keats" wrote:
"donquijote1954" wrote in message

oups.com...

On Aug 2, 10:56 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
wrote:


The governments (federal, state and local) in the U.S. (and many other
countries) use taxes to discourage behavior and tax breaks to encourage
behavior. I am merely recommending the proper use of this common policy
tool.


The use it here too! Just that they give tax breaks and all kinds of
facilities to those at the top. Have you noticed that 99% fo the bike
paths are concentrated where the big people live?


If the midgets aren't complaining, then so what?


"Democracy is when the indigent, and not the men of property, are the
rulers" -Aristotle

The midgets are what defines "democracy"... Or should be define it
anyway.

  #25  
Old August 3rd 07, 10:45 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.soc,uk.rec.cycling
Keats
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 184
Default The Great Don Quijote of RBM!


"donquijote1954" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Aug 3, 12:26 pm, "Keats" wrote:
"donquijote1954" wrote in message

oups.com...

On Aug 2, 10:56 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
wrote:


The governments (federal, state and local) in the U.S. (and many other
countries) use taxes to discourage behavior and tax breaks to
encourage
behavior. I am merely recommending the proper use of this common
policy
tool.


The use it here too! Just that they give tax breaks and all kinds of
facilities to those at the top. Have you noticed that 99% fo the bike
paths are concentrated where the big people live?


If the midgets aren't complaining, then so what?


"Democracy is when the indigent, and not the men of property, are the
rulers" -Aristotle

The midgets are what defines "democracy"... Or should be define it
anyway.


"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the
average voter."

WINSTON CHURCHILL


  #26  
Old August 3rd 07, 10:57 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.soc,uk.rec.cycling
Tom Keats
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,193
Default The Great Don Quijote of RBM!

In article ,
"Keats" writes:

"donquijote1954" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Aug 3, 12:26 pm, "Keats" wrote:
"donquijote1954" wrote in message

oups.com...

On Aug 2, 10:56 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
wrote:

The governments (federal, state and local) in the U.S. (and many other
countries) use taxes to discourage behavior and tax breaks to
encourage
behavior. I am merely recommending the proper use of this common
policy
tool.

The use it here too! Just that they give tax breaks and all kinds of
facilities to those at the top. Have you noticed that 99% fo the bike
paths are concentrated where the big people live?

If the midgets aren't complaining, then so what?


"Democracy is when the indigent, and not the men of property, are the
rulers" -Aristotle

The midgets are what defines "democracy"... Or should be define it
anyway.


"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the
average voter."

WINSTON CHURCHILL



"Democracy becomes a government of bullies tempered by editors."
-- R. W. Emerson


--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
  #27  
Old August 4th 07, 12:45 AM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.soc,uk.rec.cycling
Keats
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 184
Default The Great Don Quijote of RBM!


"Tom Keats" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Keats" writes:

"donquijote1954" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Aug 3, 12:26 pm, "Keats" wrote:
"donquijote1954" wrote in message

oups.com...

On Aug 2, 10:56 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
wrote:

The governments (federal, state and local) in the U.S. (and many
other
countries) use taxes to discourage behavior and tax breaks to
encourage
behavior. I am merely recommending the proper use of this common
policy
tool.

The use it here too! Just that they give tax breaks and all kinds of
facilities to those at the top. Have you noticed that 99% fo the bike
paths are concentrated where the big people live?

If the midgets aren't complaining, then so what?

"Democracy is when the indigent, and not the men of property, are the
rulers" -Aristotle

The midgets are what defines "democracy"... Or should be define it
anyway.


"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with
the
average voter."

WINSTON CHURCHILL



"Democracy becomes a government of bullies tempered by editors."
-- R. W. Emerson


--



There seems to be tons of democracy quotes. Rather than doing battling
quotes I suggest all those interested Google "democracy quotes" and groove
on their own personal favorites.

The no relation to Tom Keats Keats


  #28  
Old August 4th 07, 01:14 AM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.soc,uk.rec.cycling
Tom Keats
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,193
Default The Great Don Quijote of RBM!

In article ,
"Keats" writes:

"Tom Keats" wrote in message
...


"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with
the
average voter."

WINSTON CHURCHILL



"Democracy becomes a government of bullies tempered by editors."
-- R. W. Emerson


There seems to be tons of democracy quotes. Rather than doing battling
quotes I suggest all those interested Google "democracy quotes" and groove
on their own personal favorites.


DonQuijote says he wants democracy and rails against the
status quo; maybe what he really needs is sympathetic
editors/media personnel.

Maybe he should set up a print shop and become real
media personnel himself.

But I guess that would mean he'd have to become a /real/
bike activist and assume the responsibilities thereof,
instead of just being a cheap-talk, Usenet ****-disturber,
lyric cyclist.

The no relation to Tom Keats Keats


I hope you're sure 'bout that. One of my worst fears is
discovering hitherto unknown progeny.



cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
  #29  
Old August 4th 07, 01:50 AM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.soc,uk.rec.cycling
donquijote1954
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,851
Default The Great Don Quijote of RBM!

On Aug 3, 5:45 pm, "Keats" wrote:
"donquijote1954" wrote in message

oups.com...





On Aug 3, 12:26 pm, "Keats" wrote:
"donquijote1954" wrote in message


groups.com...


On Aug 2, 10:56 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
wrote:


The governments (federal, state and local) in the U.S. (and many other
countries) use taxes to discourage behavior and tax breaks to
encourage
behavior. I am merely recommending the proper use of this common
policy
tool.


The use it here too! Just that they give tax breaks and all kinds of
facilities to those at the top. Have you noticed that 99% fo the bike
paths are concentrated where the big people live?


If the midgets aren't complaining, then so what?


"Democracy is when the indigent, and not the men of property, are the
rulers" -Aristotle


The midgets are what defines "democracy"... Or should be define it
anyway.


"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the
average voter."


Luckily, today we only require that the citizen casts a vote every
four years. Any kind of conversation is discouraged, just in case.

  #30  
Old August 4th 07, 01:59 AM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.soc,uk.rec.cycling
Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 268
Default The Great Don Quijote of RBM!

Keats WHO? wrote:
"Jeff Grippe" wrote in message
...
The governments (federal, state and local) in the U.S. (and many other
countries) use taxes to discourage behavior and tax breaks to encourage
behavior. I am merely recommending the proper use of this common policy
tool.

Wow! A real discussion with substance.

Part of the problem is that taxes (and tax breaks) are used for too many
things.

Some taxes are obviously used to fund the basic operations of government
and the services it provides.

Other taxes are used to specifically discourage behavior such as
cigarette.

Some tax breaks are used to encourage behavior.

The problem is that all of these things get jumbled up. The bean counters
come to rely on the revenue generated by the "sin taxes" and want to keep
the breaks to a minimum so that they can balance the books. You can say
something like "We are going to tax all X's in order to provide Y's" (cars
for bike lanes, etc.) but the X's are going to complain and the Y's are
going to view what they've got as an entitlement. You will get the X lobby
fighting for the repeal of the tax and the Y lobby insisting that their
service must continue to be provided. The people whose job it is to make
the budge work try to please as many as possible (being part of a
political system) but ultimately the stronger lobby wins.

As liberal as I am, I can see some of the arguements for smaller
government. Government is a grossly inefficient thing. The problem is that
there are gaps a mile wide in what the free market will provide in terms
of basic human services. If food, clothing, shelter, education, and health
care are basic human rights, then the free market will not, of its own
accord, provide a basic level of these things to everyone. Why should it?
Corporations are supposed to make profits not provide basic human
services. It took workers organizing for companies to provide good working
conditions, shorter hours, higher pay, benefits, etc.

The revolution isn't coming, however. So the system that we've got is one
in which those who can push hardest might be able to get what they want.
You want lockers and showers? Find a way to deliver a large block of votes
and you might get them. Or find a philanthropist who believes in lockers
and showers and get a foundation started. Be careful, however. Foundations
can be almost as inefficient as governments.

Jeff


The idea of entitlements knows no limits. Therefore the inefficient use of
tax money knows no practical limits other than the amount of money in the
government coffers at any given time. Once citizens discovered they could
vote themselves money out of the public weal entitlements were off and
running to the point that someone who doesn't reach the work place in an air
conditioned car wants the government to force the installation of a shower
and locker on private property for their private use. The cost is not only
the actual cost, but is also the cost of lost opportunity for a better and
more efficient use of this money.


And the better use of tax money is subsidizing NON-SUSTAINABLE,
ENVIRONMENTALLY DEGRADING, CONGESTING CAUSING, individual fossil-fuel
powered transport? SHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESH!!!!!!!

Not to mention that showers and bicycle lockers are MUCH LESS EXPENSIVE
than all the fossil-fuel powered subsidies (including the bill to come
for $2,000,000,000,000.00 for the adventure in Mess-O-Potamia), to which
we can add the costs of environmental damage.

By the way, since I first brought up the idea, I own an air-conditioned
automobile and use it for commuting. HAH! However; I wish I could afford
to live close enough to work to cycle commute and had a shower there.

How did anyone on this planet survive for those millions of years before the
invention of under arm deodorant and automobile air conditioners? Wouldn't
they too seem to be a basic human right, Jeff?


Life in those times, to borrow a phrase from Hobbes, was poor, nasty,
brutish, and short. We can do better.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Great Don Quijote of RBM! donquijote1954 General 256 August 18th 07 08:20 AM
Don Quijote expounds ... LotteBum[_60_] Australia 0 August 1st 07 12:39 AM
Great stuff looking for a great home... Jessica Cann Marketplace 0 March 11th 04 07:46 PM
Chilly Hilly - Great ride and great weather cheg General 5 March 1st 04 07:02 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2022 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.