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  #1  
Old May 5th 19, 06:57 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default Skewers


Recently I had some problems with one bike. It is an older bike with
the nearly horizontal forward facing "drop outs". I had disassembled
all my bikes to make it easier to load in the van when we moved to the
new house and after re-assembling the bike I found that the rear
wheel would not stay located in the rear drop outs. Riding only a
short distance would cause the wheel to twist so that the cassette
side of the axle slid forward enough that the tire rubbed on the
frame.

I had ridden the bike for several years in Bangkok - generally very
flat terrain - with no problems and the only change, I thought, was
the installation of a 12 - 34 cassette as the new house is in the
mountains.

I was about ready to try and modify the rear drop-outs to something
with a vertical opening (like newer bikes) when I got to thinking. I
had used some very sleek looking, gold anodized, skewers when I
reassembled the bike and as that and the new cassette were the only
changes I had made, just maybe...

I replaced the new, pretty, skewers with some old skewers that I had
and lo and behold the rear wheel staid centered for a two hour ride
this morning.

The pretty new gold anodized skewers that apparently weren't
clamping tightly enough to hold the wheel in place looked like
https://www.ebay.com/b/Bicycle-Skewe...825/bn_1856901
The tenth illustration down labeled "Mountain MTB Road Bike Bicycle
Wheel Hub Skewers Quick Release Bolt Lever Axle" and showing the very
pretty red, yellow, silver, blue, and black anodized skewers (THB
91.69 a set - ~US$2.88)

The old used set I replaced them with looked like the first
illustration, labeled "Campagnolo Record REAR and Chorus FRONT QR
Skewer Quick Release" although mine don't seem to have any name on
them. (THB 41.45 - a bit over a dollar)

If you are riding an old bike - a Classic is the term I use - and
having wheel problems maybe a change to the older skewers would help.
--
cheers,

John B.

Ads
  #2  
Old May 5th 19, 02:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 824
Default Skewers

On Sunday, May 5, 2019 at 7:58:04 AM UTC+2, John B. wrote:
Recently I had some problems with one bike. It is an older bike with
the nearly horizontal forward facing "drop outs". I had disassembled
all my bikes to make it easier to load in the van when we moved to the
new house and after re-assembling the bike I found that the rear
wheel would not stay located in the rear drop outs. Riding only a
short distance would cause the wheel to twist so that the cassette
side of the axle slid forward enough that the tire rubbed on the
frame.

I had ridden the bike for several years in Bangkok - generally very
flat terrain - with no problems and the only change, I thought, was
the installation of a 12 - 34 cassette as the new house is in the
mountains.

I was about ready to try and modify the rear drop-outs to something
with a vertical opening (like newer bikes) when I got to thinking. I
had used some very sleek looking, gold anodized, skewers when I
reassembled the bike and as that and the new cassette were the only
changes I had made, just maybe...

I replaced the new, pretty, skewers with some old skewers that I had
and lo and behold the rear wheel staid centered for a two hour ride
this morning.

The pretty new gold anodized skewers that apparently weren't
clamping tightly enough to hold the wheel in place looked like
https://www.ebay.com/b/Bicycle-Skewe...825/bn_1856901
The tenth illustration down labeled "Mountain MTB Road Bike Bicycle
Wheel Hub Skewers Quick Release Bolt Lever Axle" and showing the very
pretty red, yellow, silver, blue, and black anodized skewers (THB
91.69 a set - ~US$2.88)

The old used set I replaced them with looked like the first
illustration, labeled "Campagnolo Record REAR and Chorus FRONT QR
Skewer Quick Release" although mine don't seem to have any name on
them. (THB 41.45 - a bit over a dollar)

If you are riding an old bike - a Classic is the term I use - and
having wheel problems maybe a change to the older skewers would help.
--
cheers,

John B.


In principle an external cam skewer works the same as a internal cam skewer.. They stretch the axle that act as a spring to preload the friction surface. With a external cam skewer there is in no time there is so much friction between the cam an de curved washer that you don't have any idea what preload you put on the axle. You 'feel' friction instead of the stretching of the axle. That is the problem I have with external cam skewers. They look pretty but are junk by definition and are replaced before the first ride. I have external cam skewers in my junk bin from DT swiss, Zipp, Hope and available as a free gift.

Lou
  #3  
Old May 5th 19, 02:44 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Skewers

On 5/5/2019 9:18 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, May 5, 2019 at 7:58:04 AM UTC+2, John B. wrote:
Recently I had some problems with one bike. It is an older bike with
the nearly horizontal forward facing "drop outs". I had disassembled
all my bikes to make it easier to load in the van when we moved to the
new house and after re-assembling the bike I found that the rear
wheel would not stay located in the rear drop outs. Riding only a
short distance would cause the wheel to twist so that the cassette
side of the axle slid forward enough that the tire rubbed on the
frame.

I had ridden the bike for several years in Bangkok - generally very
flat terrain - with no problems and the only change, I thought, was
the installation of a 12 - 34 cassette as the new house is in the
mountains.

I was about ready to try and modify the rear drop-outs to something
with a vertical opening (like newer bikes) when I got to thinking. I
had used some very sleek looking, gold anodized, skewers when I
reassembled the bike and as that and the new cassette were the only
changes I had made, just maybe...

I replaced the new, pretty, skewers with some old skewers that I had
and lo and behold the rear wheel staid centered for a two hour ride
this morning.

The pretty new gold anodized skewers that apparently weren't
clamping tightly enough to hold the wheel in place looked like
https://www.ebay.com/b/Bicycle-Skewe...825/bn_1856901
The tenth illustration down labeled "Mountain MTB Road Bike Bicycle
Wheel Hub Skewers Quick Release Bolt Lever Axle" and showing the very
pretty red, yellow, silver, blue, and black anodized skewers (THB
91.69 a set - ~US$2.88)

The old used set I replaced them with looked like the first
illustration, labeled "Campagnolo Record REAR and Chorus FRONT QR
Skewer Quick Release" although mine don't seem to have any name on
them. (THB 41.45 - a bit over a dollar)

If you are riding an old bike - a Classic is the term I use - and
having wheel problems maybe a change to the older skewers would help.
--
cheers,

John B.


In principle an external cam skewer works the same as a internal cam skewer. They stretch the axle that act as a spring to preload the friction surface. With a external cam skewer there is in no time there is so much friction between the cam an de curved washer that you don't have any idea what preload you put on the axle. You 'feel' friction instead of the stretching of the axle. That is the problem I have with external cam skewers. They look pretty but are junk by definition and are replaced before the first ride. I have external cam skewers in my junk bin from DT swiss, Zipp, Hope and available as a free gift.


Agreed. And to go a bit futher, I find it's a good idea to lubricate the
guts of an internal cam skewer every few years. Mine gradually build up
internal friction until I do that.

I use external cam skewers only on things like the homemade quick
release mount for my Karrimore saddlebag.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #4  
Old May 5th 19, 04:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Skewers

On 5/5/2019 12:57 AM, John B. wrote:

Recently I had some problems with one bike. It is an older bike with
the nearly horizontal forward facing "drop outs". I had disassembled
all my bikes to make it easier to load in the van when we moved to the
new house and after re-assembling the bike I found that the rear
wheel would not stay located in the rear drop outs. Riding only a
short distance would cause the wheel to twist so that the cassette
side of the axle slid forward enough that the tire rubbed on the
frame.

I had ridden the bike for several years in Bangkok - generally very
flat terrain - with no problems and the only change, I thought, was
the installation of a 12 - 34 cassette as the new house is in the
mountains.

I was about ready to try and modify the rear drop-outs to something
with a vertical opening (like newer bikes) when I got to thinking. I
had used some very sleek looking, gold anodized, skewers when I
reassembled the bike and as that and the new cassette were the only
changes I had made, just maybe...

I replaced the new, pretty, skewers with some old skewers that I had
and lo and behold the rear wheel staid centered for a two hour ride
this morning.

The pretty new gold anodized skewers that apparently weren't
clamping tightly enough to hold the wheel in place looked like
https://www.ebay.com/b/Bicycle-Skewe...825/bn_1856901
The tenth illustration down labeled "Mountain MTB Road Bike Bicycle
Wheel Hub Skewers Quick Release Bolt Lever Axle" and showing the very
pretty red, yellow, silver, blue, and black anodized skewers (THB
91.69 a set - ~US$2.88)

The old used set I replaced them with looked like the first
illustration, labeled "Campagnolo Record REAR and Chorus FRONT QR
Skewer Quick Release" although mine don't seem to have any name on
them. (THB 41.45 - a bit over a dollar)

If you are riding an old bike - a Classic is the term I use - and
having wheel problems maybe a change to the older skewers would help.


Good for you, Mr Detective.

All skewers function better with an oiled cam. Dry, dirty or
even rusted are much less effective.

Even so, steel (bell type) skewers clamp much tighter for
any given hand pressure than aluminum (open cam) designs.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #5  
Old May 5th 19, 11:30 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default Skewers

On Sun, 5 May 2019 06:18:28 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Sunday, May 5, 2019 at 7:58:04 AM UTC+2, John B. wrote:
Recently I had some problems with one bike. It is an older bike with
the nearly horizontal forward facing "drop outs". I had disassembled
all my bikes to make it easier to load in the van when we moved to the
new house and after re-assembling the bike I found that the rear
wheel would not stay located in the rear drop outs. Riding only a
short distance would cause the wheel to twist so that the cassette
side of the axle slid forward enough that the tire rubbed on the
frame.

I had ridden the bike for several years in Bangkok - generally very
flat terrain - with no problems and the only change, I thought, was
the installation of a 12 - 34 cassette as the new house is in the
mountains.

I was about ready to try and modify the rear drop-outs to something
with a vertical opening (like newer bikes) when I got to thinking. I
had used some very sleek looking, gold anodized, skewers when I
reassembled the bike and as that and the new cassette were the only
changes I had made, just maybe...

I replaced the new, pretty, skewers with some old skewers that I had
and lo and behold the rear wheel staid centered for a two hour ride
this morning.

The pretty new gold anodized skewers that apparently weren't
clamping tightly enough to hold the wheel in place looked like
https://www.ebay.com/b/Bicycle-Skewe...825/bn_1856901
The tenth illustration down labeled "Mountain MTB Road Bike Bicycle
Wheel Hub Skewers Quick Release Bolt Lever Axle" and showing the very
pretty red, yellow, silver, blue, and black anodized skewers (THB
91.69 a set - ~US$2.88)

The old used set I replaced them with looked like the first
illustration, labeled "Campagnolo Record REAR and Chorus FRONT QR
Skewer Quick Release" although mine don't seem to have any name on
them. (THB 41.45 - a bit over a dollar)

If you are riding an old bike - a Classic is the term I use - and
having wheel problems maybe a change to the older skewers would help.
--
cheers,

John B.


In principle an external cam skewer works the same as a internal cam skewer. They stretch the axle that act as a spring to preload the friction surface. With a external cam skewer there is in no time there is so much friction between the cam an de curved washer that you don't have any idea what preload you put on the axle. You 'feel' friction instead of the stretching of the axle. That is the problem I have with external cam skewers. They look pretty but are junk by definition and are replaced before the first ride. I have external cam skewers in my junk bin from DT swiss, Zipp, Hope and available as a free gift.

Lou


After I wrote the above I found a Sheldon page that explains that the
internal cam skewers - what I referred to as "older Skewers" will, in
normal use, apply more locking force because the lever (handle) to
cam ratio is greater thus the same force to "close" the skewer
results in more force applied to the spindle of the skewer with the
older "internal cam" skewer than with the more modern external cam
skewer.

--
cheers,

John B.

  #6  
Old May 7th 19, 12:52 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,261
Default Skewers

On Sunday, May 5, 2019 at 3:30:50 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 5 May 2019 06:18:28 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Sunday, May 5, 2019 at 7:58:04 AM UTC+2, John B. wrote:
Recently I had some problems with one bike. It is an older bike with
the nearly horizontal forward facing "drop outs". I had disassembled
all my bikes to make it easier to load in the van when we moved to the
new house and after re-assembling the bike I found that the rear
wheel would not stay located in the rear drop outs. Riding only a
short distance would cause the wheel to twist so that the cassette
side of the axle slid forward enough that the tire rubbed on the
frame.

I had ridden the bike for several years in Bangkok - generally very
flat terrain - with no problems and the only change, I thought, was
the installation of a 12 - 34 cassette as the new house is in the
mountains.

I was about ready to try and modify the rear drop-outs to something
with a vertical opening (like newer bikes) when I got to thinking. I
had used some very sleek looking, gold anodized, skewers when I
reassembled the bike and as that and the new cassette were the only
changes I had made, just maybe...

I replaced the new, pretty, skewers with some old skewers that I had
and lo and behold the rear wheel staid centered for a two hour ride
this morning.

The pretty new gold anodized skewers that apparently weren't
clamping tightly enough to hold the wheel in place looked like
https://www.ebay.com/b/Bicycle-Skewe...825/bn_1856901
The tenth illustration down labeled "Mountain MTB Road Bike Bicycle
Wheel Hub Skewers Quick Release Bolt Lever Axle" and showing the very
pretty red, yellow, silver, blue, and black anodized skewers (THB
91.69 a set - ~US$2.88)

The old used set I replaced them with looked like the first
illustration, labeled "Campagnolo Record REAR and Chorus FRONT QR
Skewer Quick Release" although mine don't seem to have any name on
them. (THB 41.45 - a bit over a dollar)

If you are riding an old bike - a Classic is the term I use - and
having wheel problems maybe a change to the older skewers would help.
--
cheers,

John B.


In principle an external cam skewer works the same as a internal cam skewer. They stretch the axle that act as a spring to preload the friction surface. With a external cam skewer there is in no time there is so much friction between the cam an de curved washer that you don't have any idea what preload you put on the axle. You 'feel' friction instead of the stretching of the axle. That is the problem I have with external cam skewers. They look pretty but are junk by definition and are replaced before the first ride. I have external cam skewers in my junk bin from DT swiss, Zipp, Hope and available as a free gift.

Lou


After I wrote the above I found a Sheldon page that explains that the
internal cam skewers - what I referred to as "older Skewers" will, in
normal use, apply more locking force because the lever (handle) to
cam ratio is greater thus the same force to "close" the skewer
results in more force applied to the spindle of the skewer with the
older "internal cam" skewer than with the more modern external cam
skewer.

--
cheers,

John B.


Also the older skewers are steel and the modern one's are aluminum and they are extremely difficult to get tight enough to hold well.
  #7  
Old May 7th 19, 02:58 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 19
Default Skewers

Older skewers had serrated surfaces that dug into the dropout. The bikes usually had a soft chrome plating that permitted the skewers to dig in. This added friction and prevented the forward motion generated by the chain/cog interface.

Vertical dropouts resist the forward motion. It isn't necessary for the skewer to resist any forward motion in a vertical dropout. The skewer manufacturers were happy to eliminate an extra step in the manufacturing process.

Riders still using bikes with horizontal dropouts and have been skewered.
 




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