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Near Miss of the Day 481: A very scary close encounter with 'FarmerGiles' (includes swearing)



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 15th 20, 02:31 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Simon Mason[_6_]
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Posts: 2,160
Default Near Miss of the Day 481: A very scary close encounter with 'FarmerGiles' (includes swearing)

QUOTE:

A cyclist who was riding downhill and suddenly encountered a convoy of tractors as he headed under a railway bridge says the incident is “one of the top five near misses I’ve had, filmed or not.”

The incident happened in Houghton near Preston, Lancashire, with road.cc reader Jon, who shot the footage, saying: “On a commute to work in the evening I changed my route so was going downhill and approaching this corner when out of the darkness there appeared a massive tractor taking the whole road – hence the swearing as it was very scary.

“What made all this harder is the poor road surface, people on a pavement and taking a corner so having to lean over so needing more space.

“I’m not blaming the driver it was just one of those incidents,” he added.

https://road.cc/content/news/near-mi...r-giles-277965
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  #2  
Old October 15th 20, 03:15 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
JNugent[_12_]
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Posts: 724
Default Near Miss of the Day 481: A very scary close encounter with'Farmer Giles' (includes swearing)

On 15/10/2020 14:31, Simon Mason wrote:

QUOTE:

A cyclist who was riding downhill and suddenly encountered a convoy of tractors as he headed under a railway bridge says the incident is “one of the top five near misses I’ve had, filmed or not.”

The incident happened in Houghton near Preston, Lancashire, with road.cc reader Jon, who shot the footage, saying: “On a commute to work in the evening I changed my route so was going downhill and approaching this corner when out of the darkness there appeared a massive tractor taking the whole road – hence the swearing as it was very scary.

“What made all this harder is the poor road surface, people on a pavement and taking a corner so having to lean over so needing more space.

“I’m not blaming the driver it was just one of those incidents,” he added.

https://road.cc/content/news/near-mi...r-giles-277965


Those pesky "people on a pavement", eh?

In only slightly different circumstances, that would have blocked the
obvious alternative route.

QUOTE:
"having to lean over so needing more space
ENDQUOTE

I suppose behaving like a responsible human being and perhaps *stopping"
was just out of the question?

The tractor driver(s) had the right of way (priority). They had reached
the tunnel first and the lead vehicle was actually emerging from the
tunnel before the cyclist even reached it from the other direction. The
tractors were being driven at a reasonable and responsible slow speed.
the cyclist was travelling too fast for the conditions. From some
distance away, it is obvious that he could not see what was inside the
tunnel. There might have been a broken-down vehicle, an injured
pedestrian, or even an injured cyclist on the carriageway in the
semi-darkness.

The rule is: "Drive / ride so that you can STOP within the distance you
can SEE to be clear". It applies to all vehicular road-users.

  #3  
Old October 15th 20, 03:18 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
JNugent[_12_]
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Posts: 724
Default Near Miss of the Day 481: A very scary close encounter with'Farmer Giles' (includes swearing)

On 15/10/2020 14:31, Simon Mason wrote:
QUOTE:

A cyclist who was riding downhill and suddenly encountered a convoy of tractors as he headed under a railway bridge says the incident is “one of the top five near misses I’ve had, filmed or not.”

The incident happened in Houghton near Preston, Lancashire, with road.cc reader Jon, who shot the footage, saying: “On a commute to work in the evening I changed my route so was going downhill and approaching this corner when out of the darkness there appeared a massive tractor taking the whole road – hence the swearing as it was very scary.

“What made all this harder is the poor road surface, people on a pavement and taking a corner so having to lean over so needing more space.

“I’m not blaming the driver it was just one of those incidents,” he added.

https://road.cc/content/news/near-mi...r-giles-277965


QUOTE:
“I’m not blaming the driver it was just one of those incidents,” [the
cyclist] added.
ENDQUOTE

It was *not* just one of those things. The danger was caused entirely by
the cyclist's failure to observe the most basic of safety rules, which
is that one must proceed in such a manner as to be able to stop within
the distance which can be *seen* to be clear.

That reckless and careless cyclist couldn't see into the tunnel and for
obvious reasons, had no right to assume that there was nothing there.
  #4  
Old October 15th 20, 10:55 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
TMS320
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Posts: 3,725
Default Near Miss of the Day 481: A very scary close encounter with 'Farmer Giles' (includes swearing)

On 15/10/2020 14:31, Simon Mason wrote:
QUOTE:

A cyclist who was riding downhill and suddenly encountered a convoy
of tractors as he headed under a railway bridge says the incident is
“one of the top five near misses I’ve had, filmed or not.”

The incident happened in Houghton near Preston, Lancashire, with
road.cc reader Jon, who shot the footage, saying: “On a commute to
work in the evening I changed my route so was going downhill and
approaching this corner when out of the darkness there appeared a
massive tractor taking the whole road – hence the swearing as it was
very scary.

“What made all this harder is the poor road surface, people on a
pavement and taking a corner so having to lean over so needing more
space.

“I’m not blaming the driver it was just one of those incidents,” he
added.

https://road.cc/content/news/near-mi...r-giles-277965





Based on the following tractors, it looks like the lead one did not need
to be that far out. It's a two lane road with a centre line which does
not disappear under the bridge.

I guess the cyclists' immediate concern was to give the pedestrians
space, which meant moving to the right of the riding line on a right
hand bend. Continuing to follow the curve while making a step move to
the left and mashing the brakes shows good control.
  #5  
Old October 15th 20, 11:46 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
JNugent[_12_]
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Posts: 724
Default Near Miss of the Day 481: A very scary close encounter with'Farmer Giles' (includes swearing)

On 15/10/2020 22:55, TMS320 wrote:
On 15/10/2020 14:31, Simon Mason wrote:
QUOTE:

A cyclist who was riding downhill and suddenly encountered a convoy of
tractors as he headed under a railway bridge says the incident is
*“one of the top five near misses I’ve had, filmed or not.”

The incident happened in Houghton near Preston, Lancashire, with
road.cc reader Jon, who shot the footage, saying: “On a commute to
work in the evening I changed my route so was going downhill and
approaching this corner when out of the darkness there appeared a
massive tractor taking the whole road – hence the swearing as it was
*very scary.

“What made all this harder is the poor road surface, people on a
pavement and taking a corner so having to lean over so needing more
space.

“I’m not blaming the driver it was just one of those incidents,” he
added.

https://road.cc/content/news/near-mi...r-giles-277965


Based on the following tractors, it looks like the lead one did not need
to be that far out. It's a two lane road with a centre line which does
not disappear under the bridge.


It was wider than half the carriageway width. Tractors often are.

I guess the cyclists' immediate concern was to give the pedestrians
space, which meant moving to the right of the riding line on a right
hand bend.


Why would he be concerned to do that? They were on the footway, some
distance before the tunnel under the bridge. He had passed them.

Continuing to follow the curve while making a step move to
the left and mashing the brakes shows good control.


Travelling at a more moderate speed (a speed from which he could stop
within the distance seen to be clear) would have been the correct thing
to do. Prevention better than cure, etc.



  #6  
Old October 16th 20, 08:59 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Rob Morley
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Posts: 7,171
Default Near Miss of the Day 481: A very scary close encounter with'Farmer Giles' (includes swearing)

On Thu, 15 Oct 2020 22:55:21 +0100
TMS320 wrote:

Based on the following tractors, it looks like the lead one did not
need to be that far out. It's a two lane road with a centre line
which does not disappear under the bridge.

I guess the cyclists' immediate concern was to give the pedestrians
space, which meant moving to the right of the riding line on a right
hand bend. Continuing to follow the curve while making a step move to
the left and mashing the brakes shows good control.


I think the cyclist was just going too fast for the prevailing
conditions, it wasn't worthy of a near miss of the day slot.

  #7  
Old October 16th 20, 09:02 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Simon Mason[_6_]
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Posts: 2,160
Default Near Miss of the Day 481: A very scary close encounter with'Farmer Giles' (includes swearing)

On Friday, October 16, 2020 at 8:59:22 PM UTC+1, Rob Morley wrote:
On Thu, 15 Oct 2020 22:55:21 +0100
TMS320 wrote:

Based on the following tractors, it looks like the lead one did not
need to be that far out. It's a two lane road with a centre line
which does not disappear under the bridge.

I guess the cyclists' immediate concern was to give the pedestrians
space, which meant moving to the right of the riding line on a right
hand bend. Continuing to follow the curve while making a step move to
the left and mashing the brakes shows good control.


I think the cyclist was just going too fast for the prevailing
conditions, it wasn't worthy of a near miss of the day slot.


To be fair - the cyclist said as much.
  #8  
Old October 17th 20, 12:06 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
TMS320
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,725
Default Near Miss of the Day 481: A very scary close encounter with'Farmer Giles' (includes swearing)

On 16/10/2020 20:59, Rob Morley wrote:
On Thu, 15 Oct 2020 22:55:21 +0100
TMS320 wrote:

Based on the following tractors, it looks like the lead one did not
need to be that far out. It's a two lane road with a centre line
which does not disappear under the bridge.

I guess the cyclists' immediate concern was to give the pedestrians
space, which meant moving to the right of the riding line on a right
hand bend. Continuing to follow the curve while making a step move to
the left and mashing the brakes shows good control.


I think the cyclist was just going too fast for the prevailing
conditions, it wasn't worthy of a near miss of the day slot.


Well yes, it's partly that he put himself there but the video is too
dark for us to see what made him think there was space. If he saw the
tractor (like the ones behind) with wheels on the centre line, but it
moved into the centre 1-2 seconds they drew level, it would have been
tricky. I am sure we have all been in the position where the road is
clearly wide enough but the oncoming driver steals it at the last moment.
  #9  
Old October 17th 20, 12:27 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
TMS320
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,725
Default Near Miss of the Day 481: A very scary close encounter with'Farmer Giles' (includes swearing)

On 15/10/2020 23:46, JNugent wrote:
On 15/10/2020 22:55, TMS320 wrote:
On 15/10/2020 14:31, Simon Mason wrote:
QUOTE:

A cyclist who was riding downhill and suddenly encountered a
convoy of tractors as he headed under a railway bridge says the
incident is “one of the top five near misses I’ve had, filmed or
not.”

The incident happened in Houghton near Preston, Lancashire, with
road.cc reader Jon, who shot the footage, saying: “On a commute
to work in the evening I changed my route so was going downhill
and approaching this corner when out of the darkness there
appeared a massive tractor taking the whole road – hence the
swearing as it was very scary.

“What made all this harder is the poor road surface, people on a
pavement and taking a corner so having to lean over so needing
more space.

“I’m not blaming the driver it was just one of those incidents,”
he added.

https://road.cc/content/news/near-mi...r-giles-277965




Based on the following tractors, it looks like the lead one did
not need to be that far out. It's a two lane road with a centre
line which does not disappear under the bridge.


It was wider than half the carriageway width. Tractors often are.


Gosh. Remarkably enough, on some roads, they can even take up the full
width. On some roads there can be plenty of space. The difficulty is the
intermediate.

I guess the cyclists' immediate concern was to give the
pedestrians space, which meant moving to the right of the riding
line on a right hand bend.


Why would he be concerned to do that?


Because cyclists are like that.

(Any *good* driver also makes a different assessment of gaps to kerbs
and to walls or elbows.)

They were on the footway, some distance before the tunnel under the
bridge. He had passed them.


Comparing the video with Google Earth, they were approximately 10m from
the bridge.

Continuing to follow the curve while making a step move to the
left and mashing the brakes shows good control.


Travelling at a more moderate speed (a speed from which he could
stop within the distance seen to be clear) would have been the
correct thing to do. Prevention better than cure, etc.


Your mantra involves a making a hasty change of plan because of a scary
development to avoid a crash. Steering into a gap alongside an obstacle
is just as valid, particularly when the "obstacle" is about to consume
the space you would have stopped in.

The video is too dark to show us earlier information that was available
to him, which might have determined his planning beyond the pedestrians.
I agree that, given that the pedestrians where on a critical point of
the curve, some slowing, no matter what, would have been wise to gain
time to get back on line.

  #10  
Old October 17th 20, 11:02 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
JNugent[_12_]
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Posts: 724
Default Near Miss of the Day 481: A very scary close encounter with 'Farmer Giles' (includes swearing)

On 17/10/2020 12:27, TMS320 wrote:

On 15/10/2020 23:46, JNugent wrote:
On 15/10/2020 22:55, TMS320 wrote:
On 15/10/2020 14:31, Simon Mason wrote:


QUOTE:
A cyclist who was riding downhill and suddenly encountered a convoy
of tractors as he headed under a railway bridge says the incident is
“one of the top five near misses I’ve had, filmed or not.”

The incident happened in Houghton near Preston, Lancashire, with
road.cc reader Jon, who shot the footage, saying: “On a commute to
work in the evening I changed my route so was going downhill and
approaching this corner when out of the darkness there appeared a
massive tractor taking the whole road – hence the swearing as it was
very scary.

“What made all this harder is the poor road surface, people on a
pavement and taking a corner so having to lean over so needing more
space.

“I’m not blaming the driver it was just one of those incidents,” he
added.

https://road.cc/content/news/near-mi...r-giles-277965


Based on the following tractors, it looks like the lead one did
not need to be that far out. It's a two lane road with a centre
line which does not disappear under the bridge.


It was wider than half the carriageway width. Tractors often are.


Gosh. Remarkably enough, on some roads, they can even take up the full
width. On some roads there can be plenty of space. The difficulty is the
intermediate.


That is one reason why one must not cycle or drive at an inappropriately
high speed into an area one cannot see to be clear of obstruction or
other traffic.

I guess the cyclists' immediate concern was to give the
pedestrians space, which meant moving to the right of the riding
line on a right hand bend.


Why would he be concerned to do that?


Because cyclists are like that.


There was absolutely no need for the cyclist to be concerned about the
pedestrians. They were on the footway. he was on the carriageway. He'd
already passed them before he reached the tunnel.

Saying that "the cyclists' immediate concern was to give the pedestrians
space" sounds like invention. They had the space they needed. So did he.
Their requirements were never in conflict.

(Any *good* driver also makes a different assessment of gaps to kerbs
and to walls or elbows.)


That's true enough; it's important to stay some safe distance away from
kerbs for a variety of good reasons. What's the relevance here?

They were on the footway, some distance before the tunnel under the
bridge. He had passed them.


Comparing the video with Google Earth, they were approximately 10m from
the bridge.


That does not detract from what I said. He'd passed the pedestrians by
the time he reached the tunnel.

Continuing to follow the curve while making a step move to the
left and mashing the brakes shows good control.


Travelling at a more moderate speed (a speed from which he could
stop within the distance seen to be clear) would have been the
correct thing to do. Prevention better than cure, etc.


Your mantra involves a making a hasty change of plan because of a scary
development to avoid a crash.


No, it *doesn't*.

It involves not progressing at speed into a location which cannot be
*seen* to be clear, thereby avoiding any need for such "a hasty change
of plan".

The darkened space in the tunnel would be a good example of such a
location.*

Steering into a gap alongside an obstacle
is just as valid, particularly when the "obstacle" is about to consume
the space you would have stopped in.


The solution to the problem comes ahead of that: slow down when you
(literally) can't see where you're going.

It's so obvious, it shouldn't need to be said.

The video is too dark to show us earlier information that was available
to him, which might have determined his planning beyond the pedestrians.
I agree that, given that the pedestrians where on a critical point of
the curve, some slowing, no matter what, would have been wise to gain
time to get back on line.


He did not know that the tractors were there. He assumed that there was
nothing there. That was never a safe assumption to make. There might
have been almost anything on the carriageway in the dark, including -
perhaps a pedestrian (whether in the right or the wrong). This is just
like the situation when rounding a sharp bend. You can't run someone
over, or collide with a stopped vehicle, and then try to claim that it
wasn't your fault because you couldn't see it round the bend.


[* I was at a cinema in Los Angeles and had a (small) rental car parked
in the venue's car park. Walking back towards it after the movie, I
watched, horror-struck, as the driver of a large pickup truck (of the
Ford F150 type) reversed into the space occupied (but obviously, not
*fully* occupied) by "my" car. There was a crunch, he stopped and got
out and started peering at the results of the collision. We exchanged a
few details and he said that in the dark, he hadn't been able to see
into the space. I expressed my incredulity that anyone would reverse
into a space they could not and did not know to be empty. Pretty
similar, in principles involved, to this case. The damage wasn't
serious. The car was actually battle-scarred before I picked it up at
the airport. All's well that ends well.]

 




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