Lockrings or Locktite on fixed gear

I was just reading through some old threads on this subject (the last
around November of 2003) and decided I'd add my two cents worth...

I fall into the camp that lock rings or locktite are not necessary for
riders starting out on fixed gear riding. My reasoning is that if you
are really concerned about the marginal safety provided by lock rings
or locktite that you really need the true safety provided by a second
brake.

While experienced and talented fixed gear riders may be able to bring
their bikes to an emergency stop by resisting the rear wheel, I doubt
that newer fixed gear riders could do the same. My own experience (as
a fixed gear rider of a few months) is that I can go from 20 mph to 0
through resisting the rear wheel in maybe 10-15 seconds. Perhaps with
the fear of death as a motivator I would do better, but I still don't
think I would achieve a true emergency stopping rate.

Based on this reasoning, I just put the second brake back on my fixed
gear. It in not as esthetically pleasing as the more trimmed down
configuration. But I find that my fixed gear has become my favorite
bike, which I ride the most. Eventually, I may have that front tire
blow out or brake mechanism failure that finds me wanting a second
brake. When that day comes I want that brake to be more effective
than Fred Flinstone digging his feet into the ground.

Regards,
Matt Cahill

Matt Cahill wrote:

I was just reading through some old threads on this subject (the last
around November of 2003) and decided I'd add my two cents worth...

I fall into the camp that lock rings or locktite are not necessary for
riders starting out on fixed gear riding. My reasoning is that if you
are really concerned about the marginal safety provided by lock rings
or locktite that you really need the true safety provided by a second
brake.

While experienced and talented fixed gear riders may be able to bring
their bikes to an emergency stop by resisting the rear wheel, I doubt
that newer fixed gear riders could do the same. My own experience (as
a fixed gear rider of a few months) is that I can go from 20 mph to 0
through resisting the rear wheel in maybe 10-15 seconds. Perhaps with
the fear of death as a motivator I would do better, but I still don't
think I would achieve a true emergency stopping rate.

Sprockets can loosen unexpectedly, and not necessarily under heavy
"braking". Hitting a pothole could free it off, for instance, if the
shock is transmitted through the cranks, and the next time you try to
slow down the sprocket can unscrew very easily. A lockring totally
prevents this, but you obviously need a purpose-built fixed hub.
Otherwise you should be riding a single speed *freewheel* rather than fixed.

"Matt Cahill" wrote in message
om...
My own experience (as
a fixed gear rider of a few months) is that I can go from 20 mph to 0
through resisting the rear wheel in maybe 10-15 seconds. Perhaps with
the fear of death as a motivator I would do better, but I still don't
think I would achieve a true emergency stopping rate.

Out of curiousity, how does this compare to the maximum rate of slowing you
can achieve using only your rear brake?

Andy Coggan

From: Zog The Undeniable

Sprockets can loosen unexpectedly, and not necessarily under heavy
"braking". Hitting a pothole could free it off, for instance, if the
shock is transmitted through the cranks, and the next time you try to
slow down the sprocket can unscrew very easily. A lockring totally
prevents this, but you obviously need a purpose-built fixed hub.
Otherwise you should be riding a single speed *freewheel* rather than fixed.

This doesn't agree with my experience or experiment-- never having a cog
loosen, though admitting to using brakes instead of backpedaling, in lots of
low-gear fixed road use, and (experimentally), needing to back the bike up to a
wall to immobilize the rear wheel before two or three very hard slams loosened
a cog. (Cog put on non-gorilla tight with a normal chain whip, well-greased hub
threads.) Rider weight well over 200 lbs., controlled situation, focusing
*intently* on backing the cog off, no smashing wheels in potholes, MV traffic,
etc.

You can put a same-direction "jam" lockring on at least some road hub/cog
combinations.

At least one "lockring failure" (cog loosening) has been reported here, so not
a foolproof system.

Why limit yourself to a singlespeed setup? No "obvious" here IME, since I never
had a problem with cogs on freewheel hubs backing off. But that's one positive
about using two brakes, which bothers some folks on the POE scale (minor
sarcasm).

Ah well, it's raining and I'm on phone jockey duty anyhow, taking a turn at
stirring the stew. --Tom Paterson

Tom Paterson wrote:

You can put a same-direction "jam" lockring on at least some road hub/cog
combinations.

Yeah - an old Campag standard BB lockring, which uses the same thread.
Better than nothing, but some places sell rear track hubs on their own
and I'd definitely go down that route.

Matt Cahill wrote:
I was just reading through some old threads on this subject (the last
around November of 2003) and decided I'd add my two cents worth...

I fall into the camp that lock rings or locktite are not necessary for
riders starting out on fixed gear riding. My reasoning is that if you
are really concerned about the marginal safety provided by lock rings
or locktite that you really need the true safety provided by a second
brake.

While experienced and talented fixed gear riders may be able to bring
their bikes to an emergency stop by resisting the rear wheel, I doubt
that newer fixed gear riders could do the same.

Actually, terrified, panicky riders can also lock the rear wheel with
their legs, with common gearing (it's easier with lower gears.)

My own experience (as
a fixed gear rider of a few months) is that I can go from 20 mph to 0
through resisting the rear wheel in maybe 10-15 seconds. Perhaps with
the fear of death as a motivator I would do better, but I still don't
think I would achieve a true emergency stopping rate.

There's a trick to it!

You lock up the leg on the lowe pedal. As the pedal rises, it starts
lifting your body upward. As your body rises it acquires upward momentum.

When the cranks get horizontal, you yank up with your other (front)
foot. Since your body is moving upward, this causes the wheel to be
substantially unweighted, making it easy to lock the wheel.

Once the wheel is locked and skidding, it is easy enough to maintain the
skid even as your weight goes back to normal. You may well wreck your
tire, but you'll stop pretty short.

"Braking" with the legs is sort of an "all or little" proposition. You
can slow down gently, or your can lock the wheel, but, unless your gear
is pretty low, you can't use the legs for medium intensity braking.

Based on this reasoning, I just put the second brake back on my fixed
gear. It in not as esthetically pleasing as the more trimmed down
configuration. But I find that my fixed gear has become my favorite
bike, which I ride the most.

They'll do that to you! Welcome to the cult!

Sheldon "Pignon Fixe" Brown
+----------------------------------------------------------+
| The people who live in a Golden Age usually go around |
| complaining how yellow everything looks. |
| -- Randall Jarrell |
+----------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Zog The Undeniable wrote in message ...
Matt Cahill wrote:

I was just reading through some old threads on this subject (the last
around November of 2003) and decided I'd add my two cents worth...

I fall into the camp that lock rings or locktite are not necessary for
riders starting out on fixed gear riding. My reasoning is that if you
are really concerned about the marginal safety provided by lock rings
or locktite that you really need the true safety provided by a second
brake.

While experienced and talented fixed gear riders may be able to bring
their bikes to an emergency stop by resisting the rear wheel, I doubt
that newer fixed gear riders could do the same. My own experience (as
a fixed gear rider of a few months) is that I can go from 20 mph to 0
through resisting the rear wheel in maybe 10-15 seconds. Perhaps with
the fear of death as a motivator I would do better, but I still don't
think I would achieve a true emergency stopping rate.

Sprockets can loosen unexpectedly, and not necessarily under heavy
"braking". Hitting a pothole could free it off, for instance, if the
shock is transmitted through the cranks, and the next time you try to
slow down the sprocket can unscrew very easily. A lockring totally
prevents this, but you obviously need a purpose-built fixed hub.
Otherwise you should be riding a single speed *freewheel* rather than fixed.

That is why I advocate using a rear brake if one is really concerned
about the possibility of the cog spinning off. I did have a cog spin
off one time when I installed it poorly. (I do it alot tighter now.)
Since my front brake was working it was no big deal...at least in that
incident. Are you aware of an incident where cog spin off in and of
itself caused a problem ? What I want to avoid is the cog spinning
off during an attempt at an emergency stop without any other
alternative for braking.

Ultimately, I agree that I would probably be better off with
purpose-built fixed hub and I plan to build such a wheel at some
point. Until I do, I think the two brake solution is adequate.

Matt Cahill wrote:

-snip-
My own experience (as
a fixed gear rider of a few months) is that I can go from 20 mph to 0
through resisting the rear wheel in maybe 10-15 seconds. Perhaps with
the fear of death as a motivator I would do better, but I still don't
think I would achieve a true emergency stopping rate.
-snip-


Could you actually look at your watch and report back?
15-20 seconds is an absolute eternity in traffic, especially
as relates to stopping a bicycle.

Twenty seconds is more like freewheel coasting to a stop
with no brake at all!
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Matt Cahill wrote:
I was just reading through some old threads on this subject (the last
around November of 2003) and decided I'd add my two cents worth...

I fall into the camp that lock rings or locktite are not necessary for
riders starting out on fixed gear riding. My reasoning is that if you
are really concerned about the marginal safety provided by lock rings
or locktite that you really need the true safety provided by a second
brake.

matt, i think it best to clarify that locktite is not necessary if you
have a fixed gear hub with a left-handed lockring. the locktite folks
are advocating its use on a freewheel hub "locked" by an old bb ring.

as i have personal injury experience of this last kind of "lockring"
coming undone at a critical moment, i do not think it safe to advocate
the use of anything other than a proper fixed hub.

jb

Your rear wheel is for controlling speed, the front is for stopping. When
you need full braking the rear wheel provides almost zero stopping, useful
to just determine how close you are to maximum ( = how close you are to
lifting it off the ground).

So your decision to use a lockring should be for other reasons then for
braking, as your front wheel can be used for both controlling speed and for
stopping.

The only reason the rules allow track bikes to not have a front brake is
there are no stop signs and everyone has the same limited stopping power.
Rear wheel stopping distance is approximately twice that of using the front
wheel.

Bruce

"Matt Cahill" wrote in message
om...
I was just reading through some old threads on this subject (the last
around November of 2003) and decided I'd add my two cents worth...

I fall into the camp that lock rings or locktite are not necessary for
riders starting out on fixed gear riding. My reasoning is that if you
are really concerned about the marginal safety provided by lock rings
or locktite that you really need the true safety provided by a second
brake.

While experienced and talented fixed gear riders may be able to bring
their bikes to an emergency stop by resisting the rear wheel, I doubt
that newer fixed gear riders could do the same. My own experience (as

No one can stop using only the rear wheel in the same distance as the front
(unless they stop by crashing). Experience or talent is not involved.