Not a good day for the Rainbow Jersey

On Apr 10, 8:28*am, --D-y wrote:
This isn't the Wednesday Night Crit series, it's the Queen of the
Classics.
Hushovd did not ride like a champion, but a team worker.
Good for van Summeren; a fine reward for work done for others, but
this was negative racing meant not to win, or meant *less* to win,
than to try to prevent another (aptly nicknamed Spartacus) from
winning. I mean to say, tacticss that don't exactly smell good even at
the WNCS, in the Cat 5's.
IMHO
--D-y

Dumbass,

Van Summeren didn't get a reward for work done for
others. He got a reward for being first across the line
after being in the right place at the right time.

It's bogus to blame a team for racing not to win when
they won the race. Especially when they were helped
by having a lot of guys near the head of the race, and
good tactics.

What's really bogus about blaming Garmin for negative
racing is that it's not as if they attacked to prevent a
break from winning (what "negative racing" often is in
US crit-monkey terms). They won out of the front group
for ****sakes! Nobody is under an obligation to Cancellara
to help bring him up to the front group if he didn't put
himself there.

Yesterday Anorexic Drew Carey was a guy with bad
sideburns and questionable suits, today he's a genius,
three months from now he might be a monkey again.
That's the way the puncture flattens.

Fredmaster Ben

On Apr 10, 1:05*pm, Uncle Dave wrote:
On Apr 10, 4:28*pm, --D-y wrote:

This isn't the Wednesday Night Crit series, it's the Queen of the
Classics.
Hushovd did not ride like a champion, but a team worker.

Nonsense. *He tried to escape a couple of times on the pave before
Cancellera started jumping about. *He was probably spent by the time
Cancellera started complaining - understandably - about him not
working in the group. *If anything, he was a victim today - he looked
strong all day.

"Jumping about"? Why denigrate? He's (Cancellara) "on the short list",
if he wasn't the absolute strongest. And even after the marking, he
got second. o

The coverage I saw was very sketchy today, lots of stops and starts
especially in the latter part of the race. I tried other feeds but the
good one I found was delayed by several minutes and I hoped for the
best (that they'd fix) so I could see it in real time. Should have
switched, which is all to say I missed a fair amount incl. Hushovd
attacks. I'll take your word for those, and guess Thor was hammered
like you said (not to put words in your mouth except to pun). He maybe
should have made a financial arrangement to cultivate attacking
allies-- I just saw far too much "resting" and not much aggression.

They did show Thor's fall from last year, and he had a hairy moment
again this year when he tried to follow Cancellara around a corner.
Thor knows who his daddy is, I'm guessing.

In my newbie opinion, the true "curse" of the Rainbow Jersey is not
"luck", but being expected to defend it on every outing. Comes with
the territory, and the comments stand-- Thor's ride today was that of
a team worker, while the team worker was "given" the race.

If Cancellara didn't look too disappointed on the second step of the
podium at the end of today's race, well, he's Spartacus, and he's
getting used to being crucified by forces with superiority only in
numbers. What an effort to blaze up there and get that second spot!
Again IMHO, overshadows all but that of Van Summeren.
IMHO
--D-y

On Apr 10, 12:40*pm, Fred wrote:
On Apr 10, 10:28*am, --D-y wrote:

This isn't the Wednesday Night Crit series, it's the Queen of the
Classics.
Hushovd did not ride like a champion, but a team worker.
Good for van Summeren; a fine reward for work done for others, but
this was negative racing meant not to win, or meant *less* to win,
than to try to prevent another (aptly nicknamed Spartacus) from
winning. I mean to say, tacticss that don't exactly smell good even at
the WNCS, in the Cat 5's.
IMHO
--D-y

Gotta disagree here. *Up until Thor couldn't follow the last
acceleration w/ 3km to go, Garmin-Cervelo were executing perfect
tactics, and Thor himself did exactly what he was supposed to do. *The
team put a man out front to help if/when he caught up, and when it was
apparent that the catch wasn't coming, they let him ride away from the
break to force Cancellara and others to work even harder.

Agreed, in sum. Maybe Thor should have quick pulled on a team jersey,
once they got their late- race strategy figured out?

What would you, if you were to put on your DS hat, have had him do,
trade pulls w/ Cancellara to 'prove' he was stronger? *Boonen tried it
last year at Flanders, it failed. *Thor would've failed at it, too.

No, not "trade pulls". Get help from others if possible and attack.
Recognizing that when faced with far superior strength, sometimes
every/anything you do just plays into the hands of the enemy.

Thor spent far too much time taking a sleigh ride in the Rainbow
Jersey.
IMHO
--D-y

On Apr 10, 3:22*pm, --D-y wrote:

No, not "trade pulls". Get help from others if possible and attack.
Recognizing that when faced with far superior strength, sometimes
every/anything you do just plays into the hands of the enemy.

dumbass,

this is a common proposal but it never happens. different teams never
work together efficiently to pull back a break, especially in a 1 day
race, because they can't share a win.

Thor spent far too much time taking a sleigh ride in the Rainbow
Jersey.

all the riders in PR are pros hence they don't have to prove
themselves of show off how strong they are. if he attacks or goes to
the front it has to make sense.

the point of putting a guy in the break is that you don't have to
work. for this to work the rider has to be a credible threat to win if
they let him go, which is what happened today.

On Apr 10, 3:03*pm, Mike Owens wrote:

My name is Mike.

dumbass,

it's nothing personal, have a thicker skin.

They hadn't won the race yet. *It was also a mistake for Cancellera to
let 30 riders go up the road without him.

yes, also not having teammates hosed him. one strong guy with him
would've made the difference.

On Apr 10, 8:16*pm, --D-y wrote:
On Apr 10, 1:05*pm, Uncle Dave wrote:

On Apr 10, 4:28*pm, --D-y wrote:

This isn't the Wednesday Night Crit series, it's the Queen of the
Classics.
Hushovd did not ride like a champion, but a team worker.

Nonsense. *He tried to escape a couple of times on the pave before
Cancellera started jumping about. *He was probably spent by the time
Cancellera started complaining - understandably - about him not
working in the group. *If anything, he was a victim today - he looked
strong all day.

"Jumping about"? Why denigrate?

I wasn't. You are *jumping* to conclusions. Did you not notice him
jumping then? I did. Several times. Great stuff too.

UD

On Apr 10, 12:15*pm, Fredmaster of Brainerd
wrote:
On Apr 10, 8:28*am, --D-y wrote:

This isn't the Wednesday Night Crit series, it's the Queen of the
Classics.
Hushovd did not ride like a champion, but a team worker.
Good for van Summeren; a fine reward for work done for others, but
this was negative racing meant not to win, or meant *less* to win,
than to try to prevent another (aptly nicknamed Spartacus) from
winning. I mean to say, tacticss that don't exactly smell good even at
the WNCS, in the Cat 5's.
IMHO
--D-y

Dumbass,

Van Summeren didn't get a reward for work done for
others. *He got a reward for being first across the line
after being in the right place at the right time.

It's bogus to blame a team for racing not to win when
they won the race. *Especially when they were helped
by having a lot of guys near the head of the race, and
good tactics.

What's really bogus about blaming Garmin for negative
racing is that it's not as if they attacked to prevent a
break from winning (what "negative racing" often is in
US crit-monkey terms). *They won out of the front group
for ****sakes! *Nobody is under an obligation to Cancellara
to help bring him up to the front group if he didn't put
himself there.

Yesterday Anorexic Drew Carey was a guy with bad
sideburns and questionable suits, today he's a genius,
three months from now he might be a monkey again.
That's the way the puncture flattens.

Fredmaster Ben

What Cancellara said to L'Equipe [my translations]:
"Hushovd and Ballan weren't thinking about winning. They said to
themselves: 'I'm with Cancellara, I'm not going to take any pulls."
So I had to play poker: I couldn't drag Hushovd and Ballan to the
finish line. In that context, second place is like a win. I'm
satisfied with myself. I couldn't do anything else. I couldn't go
any faster, I would have needed a third leg in the finale."
[...]
"The Garmin racers played their cards intelligently, and you've got to
accept things as they are."
[...]
"... a winner like Johan is great for cycling. He got up this morning
thinking 'I'm going to work for the team.' And then he wins,
brilliant."

On Apr 10, 2:14*pm, Ben Trovato wrote:
On Apr 10, 12:15*pm, Fredmaster of Brainerd
wrote:



On Apr 10, 8:28*am, --D-y wrote:

This isn't the Wednesday Night Crit series, it's the Queen of the
Classics.
Hushovd did not ride like a champion, but a team worker.
Good for van Summeren; a fine reward for work done for others, but
this was negative racing meant not to win, or meant *less* to win,
than to try to prevent another (aptly nicknamed Spartacus) from
winning. I mean to say, tacticss that don't exactly smell good even at
the WNCS, in the Cat 5's.
IMHO
--D-y

Dumbass,

Van Summeren didn't get a reward for work done for
others. *He got a reward for being first across the line
after being in the right place at the right time.

It's bogus to blame a team for racing not to win when
they won the race. *Especially when they were helped
by having a lot of guys near the head of the race, and
good tactics.

What's really bogus about blaming Garmin for negative
racing is that it's not as if they attacked to prevent a
break from winning (what "negative racing" often is in
US crit-monkey terms). *They won out of the front group
for ****sakes! *Nobody is under an obligation to Cancellara
to help bring him up to the front group if he didn't put
himself there.

Yesterday Anorexic Drew Carey was a guy with bad
sideburns and questionable suits, today he's a genius,
three months from now he might be a monkey again.
That's the way the puncture flattens.

Fredmaster Ben

What Cancellara said to L'Equipe [my translations]:
"Hushovd and Ballan weren't thinking about winning. *They said to
themselves: 'I'm with Cancellara, I'm not going to take any pulls."
So I had to play poker: I couldn't drag Hushovd and Ballan to the
finish line. *In that context, second place is like a win. *I'm
satisfied with myself. *I couldn't do anything else. *I couldn't go
any faster, I would have needed a third leg in the finale."
[...]
"The Garmin racers played their cards intelligently, and you've got to
accept things as they are."
[...]
"... a winner like Johan is great for cycling. *He got up this morning
thinking 'I'm going to work for the team.' *And then he wins,
brilliant."

What Van Summeren told L'Equipe:

"I had Thor behind, I knew I could help him if he came back. But I
immediately felt I was the strongest in the breakaway. I was telling
myself: 'save your strength, save your strength'. Bak attacked 20 Km
from the finish, and I followed him, but Jonathan was telling me in
the earpiece, 'wait until the carrefour de l'arbre.' From there, I
raced for myself. I accelerated through the sector, and when I looked
around at the exit, there was nobody."
[...]
[on seeing Hushovd after the finish]: "He said he was happy for me. I
replied that there were still a lot of races where I'd be working for
him."

In article
,
--D-y wrote:

This isn't the Wednesday Night Crit series, it's the Queen of the
Classics.
Hushovd did not ride like a champion, but a team worker.
Good for van Summeren; a fine reward for work done for others, but
this was negative racing meant not to win, or meant *less* to win,
than to try to prevent another (aptly nicknamed Spartacus) from
winning. I mean to say, tacticss that don't exactly smell good even at
the WNCS, in the Cat 5's.

So? Where was Cancellara's team?
Oh. They did not see this coming.

IMHO

I do not believe you.

--
Old Fritz

On Apr 10, 4:30*pm, Frederick the Great wrote:
In article
,

*--D-y wrote:
This isn't the Wednesday Night Crit series, it's the Queen of the
Classics.
Hushovd did not ride like a champion, but a team worker.
Good for van Summeren; a fine reward for work done for others, but
this was negative racing meant not to win, or meant *less* to win,
than to try to prevent another (aptly nicknamed Spartacus) from
winning. I mean to say, tacticss that don't exactly smell good even at
the WNCS, in the Cat 5's.

So? Where was Cancellara's team?

Around 72k to go, section 14, they were bringing the bunch up toward
the front two groups, the first of which had the winner, Van Summeren,
in it. "Bringing Cancellara into contention".

Oh. They did not see this coming.

Who knows what they "saw" or what happened to them, with all the
straight-line crashes and mechanicals.

IMHO

I do not believe you.

Believe me about what?
--D-y