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"Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"



 
 
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  #841  
Old March 31st 04, 04:22 AM
carlfogel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

Tom Sherman wrote:
carlfogel wrote:
Dear Jobst,

Here's a double-size picture of the rocket recumbent with dreadfully
artistic lines and angles calculated off x-y pixel positions.

If anything, it looks as if it would brake even better than I
originally thought--about a 50 degree angle from COG to contact patch
versus 61 degrees for the upright with an almost identical wheelbase
in "Bicycling Science."

http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/rocketdia-
http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/rocketdia- gram.jpg

or

http://tinyurl.com/yrtgohttp://tinyurl.com/yrtgo

Possibly the recumbent that you remember wasn't quite identical to
this one?

Dear Carl,
The seat height will be about an inch lower than the top of the seat
cushion for an average rider (and lower for one who consumes an
excessive amount of sucrose sweetened torroidal foods).

As for Tom's elusive blue Dragonflyer, there are a dozen lurid
views he

http://www.ihpva.org/incoming/2002/D....ihpva.org/in-
coming/2002/Dragonflyer

Yes, double-checked that one. (Sorry about my incorrect corrections of
addresses.) This picture gives an almost side-view:

http://www.ihpva.org/incoming/2002/D...tp://www.ihpv-
a.org/incoming/2002/Dragonflyer/df2.jpg

Weird-lookin' thing!

But you must appreciate the OEM custom Phil Wood hubs (each worth at
least 4 Roadmaster Mt. Fury's).
--
Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)



Dear Tom

The Fury Roadmaster, however, is still in production

Carl Foge


-


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  #842  
Old March 31st 04, 04:22 AM
carlfogel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

Tom Sherman wrote:
carlfogel wrote:
Dear Jobst,

Here's a double-size picture of the rocket recumbent with dreadfully
artistic lines and angles calculated off x-y pixel positions.

If anything, it looks as if it would brake even better than I
originally thought--about a 50 degree angle from COG to contact patch
versus 61 degrees for the upright with an almost identical wheelbase
in "Bicycling Science."

http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/rocketdia-
http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/rocketdia- gram.jpg

or

http://tinyurl.com/yrtgohttp://tinyurl.com/yrtgo

Possibly the recumbent that you remember wasn't quite identical to
this one?

Dear Carl,
The seat height will be about an inch lower than the top of the seat
cushion for an average rider (and lower for one who consumes an
excessive amount of sucrose sweetened torroidal foods).

As for Tom's elusive blue Dragonflyer, there are a dozen lurid
views he

http://www.ihpva.org/incoming/2002/D....ihpva.org/in-
coming/2002/Dragonflyer

Yes, double-checked that one. (Sorry about my incorrect corrections of
addresses.) This picture gives an almost side-view:

http://www.ihpva.org/incoming/2002/D...tp://www.ihpv-
a.org/incoming/2002/Dragonflyer/df2.jpg

Weird-lookin' thing!

But you must appreciate the OEM custom Phil Wood hubs (each worth at
least 4 Roadmaster Mt. Fury's).
--
Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)



Dear Tom

The Fury Roadmaster, however, is still in production

Carl Foge


-


  #843  
Old March 31st 04, 05:53 PM
Tony Raven
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

James Annan wrote:
Tony Raven wrote:


Specialized have already had a
recall for mounting tab failures.


When?

If you mean the recent recall of bikes with too large a rotor installed,
there were NO failures and no evidence that there ever would be any
failures. The problem was merely that the combination had not been
properly checked.

Puts the current situation regarding disks and QRs into context, don't
you think?

James


I should choose my words more carefully. I should have said that "Specialized
have already had a recall for _potential_ mounting tab failures"

The CPSC release said:

Hazard: During heavy braking, the brake tabs on the front forks could break
off, possibly causing a loss of control and fall from the bicycle.

Tony


  #844  
Old March 31st 04, 05:53 PM
Tony Raven
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

James Annan wrote:
Tony Raven wrote:


Specialized have already had a
recall for mounting tab failures.


When?

If you mean the recent recall of bikes with too large a rotor installed,
there were NO failures and no evidence that there ever would be any
failures. The problem was merely that the combination had not been
properly checked.

Puts the current situation regarding disks and QRs into context, don't
you think?

James


I should choose my words more carefully. I should have said that "Specialized
have already had a recall for _potential_ mounting tab failures"

The CPSC release said:

Hazard: During heavy braking, the brake tabs on the front forks could break
off, possibly causing a loss of control and fall from the bicycle.

Tony


  #845  
Old March 31st 04, 11:05 PM
Simon Brooke
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

in message , Chris Malcolm
') wrote:

Simon Brooke writes:

in message , Tim McNamara
') wrote:


Ummm, no. The limit of braking power is not the force with which
the brake can clamp onto the rim, but the coefficient of friction
between
the tire and the riding surface. Clean dry pavement offers a higher
coefficient of friction than dirt with the same tires, although
perhaps pumice or slickrock might equal or exceed cement pavement.


Speaking as someone who regularly rides both types of bikes, I don't
agree with you. Mind you, I could be wrong - the caliper brakes on my
road bike are single pivot and not especially clever. I don't know the
extreme limits of braking on either system, since I'm now to old and
have too much respect for the fragility of my skull to just slam on
the anchors and see what happens. But I do know that I can stop
shorter - a lot shorter - on my hill bike than on my road bike, on the
same road and braking from the same speed.


I presume that on both bikes you can brake hard enough to skid the
front wheel.


No idea. I don't do so; perhaps I could, but like I say I have no
interest in the 'ejector seat' technique of coming to rest.

If you're higher off the ground on your road bike it won't be able to
stop as fast.


Don't think so. The saddles on all my bikes are the same height, modulo
normal suspension compression; likewise the handlebars. However the
angles on the hill bikes are a lot slacker, and I do habitually slip
off hte back of the saddle to brake hard on the hill bikes. So perhaps
the difference is just that I get my CoG further back.


--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
There's nae Gods, an there's precious few heroes
but there's plenty on the dole in th Land o th Leal;
And it's time now, tae sweep the future clear o
th lies o a past that we know wis never real.
  #846  
Old March 31st 04, 11:05 PM
Simon Brooke
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

in message , Chris Malcolm
') wrote:

Simon Brooke writes:

in message , Tim McNamara
') wrote:


Ummm, no. The limit of braking power is not the force with which
the brake can clamp onto the rim, but the coefficient of friction
between
the tire and the riding surface. Clean dry pavement offers a higher
coefficient of friction than dirt with the same tires, although
perhaps pumice or slickrock might equal or exceed cement pavement.


Speaking as someone who regularly rides both types of bikes, I don't
agree with you. Mind you, I could be wrong - the caliper brakes on my
road bike are single pivot and not especially clever. I don't know the
extreme limits of braking on either system, since I'm now to old and
have too much respect for the fragility of my skull to just slam on
the anchors and see what happens. But I do know that I can stop
shorter - a lot shorter - on my hill bike than on my road bike, on the
same road and braking from the same speed.


I presume that on both bikes you can brake hard enough to skid the
front wheel.


No idea. I don't do so; perhaps I could, but like I say I have no
interest in the 'ejector seat' technique of coming to rest.

If you're higher off the ground on your road bike it won't be able to
stop as fast.


Don't think so. The saddles on all my bikes are the same height, modulo
normal suspension compression; likewise the handlebars. However the
angles on the hill bikes are a lot slacker, and I do habitually slip
off hte back of the saddle to brake hard on the hill bikes. So perhaps
the difference is just that I get my CoG further back.


--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
There's nae Gods, an there's precious few heroes
but there's plenty on the dole in th Land o th Leal;
And it's time now, tae sweep the future clear o
th lies o a past that we know wis never real.
  #847  
Old March 31st 04, 11:42 PM
carlfogel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

Simon Brooke wrote:
in message , Chris Malcolm
') wrote:
Simon Brooke writes:

in message , Tim McNamara
') wrote:


Ummm, no. The limit of braking power is not the force with which the
brake can clamp onto the rim, but the coefficient of friction
between the tire and the riding surface. Clean dry pavement offers a
higher coefficient of friction than dirt with the same tires,
although perhaps pumice or slickrock might equal or exceed cement
pavement.


Speaking as someone who regularly rides both types of bikes, I don't
agree with you. Mind you, I could be wrong
- the caliper brakes on my road bike are single pivot and not
especially clever. I don't know the extreme limits of braking on
either system, since I'm now to old and have too much respect for
the fragility of my skull to just slam on the anchors and see what
happens. But I do know that I can stop shorter - a lot shorter - on
my hill bike than on my road bike, on the same road and braking from
the same speed.


I presume that on both bikes you can brake hard enough to skid the
front wheel.

No idea. I don't do so; perhaps I could, but like I say I have no
interest in the 'ejector seat' technique of coming to rest.
If you're higher off the ground on your road bike it won't be able to
stop as fast.

Don't think so. The saddles on all my bikes are the same height, modulo
normal suspension compression; likewise the handlebars. However the
angles on the hill bikes are a lot slacker, and I do habitually slip off
hte back of the saddle to brake hard on the hill bikes. So perhaps the
difference is just that I get my CoG further back.
--
(Simon Brooke)
http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/htt...org.uk/~simon/
There's nae Gods, an there's precious few heroes but there's plenty on
the dole in th Land o th Leal; And it's time now, tae sweep the future
clear o th lies o a past that we know wis never real.



Dear Tim and Simon

A couple of side-view pictures of bicycles and either riders o
suggestions about COG would be worth thousands of words

A typical paint program will let you draw admirably straight lines, an
programs like MB-Ruler 0.93 on this freeware page provide a transparen
onscreen protractor and ruler

http://www.ramlende.com/graphics.htm

Haven't had so much fun since they took the scissors away from me i
grade school

I'd be happy to host any pictures for comparison and even do the work o
drawing and measuring angles

The chief area of debate would likely be the center of mass

Don't eat the paste

Carl Foge


-


  #848  
Old March 31st 04, 11:42 PM
carlfogel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

Simon Brooke wrote:
in message , Chris Malcolm
') wrote:
Simon Brooke writes:

in message , Tim McNamara
') wrote:


Ummm, no. The limit of braking power is not the force with which the
brake can clamp onto the rim, but the coefficient of friction
between the tire and the riding surface. Clean dry pavement offers a
higher coefficient of friction than dirt with the same tires,
although perhaps pumice or slickrock might equal or exceed cement
pavement.


Speaking as someone who regularly rides both types of bikes, I don't
agree with you. Mind you, I could be wrong
- the caliper brakes on my road bike are single pivot and not
especially clever. I don't know the extreme limits of braking on
either system, since I'm now to old and have too much respect for
the fragility of my skull to just slam on the anchors and see what
happens. But I do know that I can stop shorter - a lot shorter - on
my hill bike than on my road bike, on the same road and braking from
the same speed.


I presume that on both bikes you can brake hard enough to skid the
front wheel.

No idea. I don't do so; perhaps I could, but like I say I have no
interest in the 'ejector seat' technique of coming to rest.
If you're higher off the ground on your road bike it won't be able to
stop as fast.

Don't think so. The saddles on all my bikes are the same height, modulo
normal suspension compression; likewise the handlebars. However the
angles on the hill bikes are a lot slacker, and I do habitually slip off
hte back of the saddle to brake hard on the hill bikes. So perhaps the
difference is just that I get my CoG further back.
--
(Simon Brooke)
http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/htt...org.uk/~simon/
There's nae Gods, an there's precious few heroes but there's plenty on
the dole in th Land o th Leal; And it's time now, tae sweep the future
clear o th lies o a past that we know wis never real.



Dear Tim and Simon

A couple of side-view pictures of bicycles and either riders o
suggestions about COG would be worth thousands of words

A typical paint program will let you draw admirably straight lines, an
programs like MB-Ruler 0.93 on this freeware page provide a transparen
onscreen protractor and ruler

http://www.ramlende.com/graphics.htm

Haven't had so much fun since they took the scissors away from me i
grade school

I'd be happy to host any pictures for comparison and even do the work o
drawing and measuring angles

The chief area of debate would likely be the center of mass

Don't eat the paste

Carl Foge


-


  #849  
Old April 6th 04, 08:49 PM
Markus Bader
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

Hello everybody,

A typical paint program will let you draw admirably straight lines, and
programs like MB-Ruler 0.93 on this freeware page provide a transparent
onscreen protractor and ruler:

http://www.ramlende.com/graphics.html

Haven't had so much fun since they took the scissors away from me in
grade school.

I'd be happy to host any pictures for comparison and even do the work of
drawing and measuring angles.

The chief area of debate would likely be the center of mass.


On the MB-Ruler hompage

http://www.Markus-Bader.de/MB-Ruler/index.htm

the update to MB-Ruler 1.3 (with screen loupe, RGB picker and multi
monitor support) is already available.

Bye

Markus
 




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