Help with rear wheel pulling out?

Hi folks:

I've been struggling with my road bike. It's a two year old Tommasini, with
full ultegra gruppo. Wheels are ultegra hubs with Mavic open 4's, nothing
fancy.
I've been having trouble with the rear wheel pulling out of the dropout on
the drive side. Almost any amount of pressure on the pedals causes the
wheel to shift to the left to the point where the tire rubs on the
chainstay. In it's current condition, it is unrideable.

I've tried tightening the quick release, almost to the point where I almost
can't close it. That helps a little, but not much. I've also tried a new
rear quick release, a good quality one. Same results. I've cleaned and
degreased all the teeth on the hubs, the quick release, and the (chromed)
dropouts to make sure they weren't greasy. Same result. I made double sure
that ends of the axle aren't protruding past the dropout as many of you
suggested. They are not, they only go about 1/2 way through the dropout on
each side, and they're evenly spaced. I made sure both quick releases are
closing fully, and they are.

So, on a whim I tried putting on my girlfriend's rear wheel (a Rolf Vector),
which has a shimano 105 quick release (so it fits on her trainer). Now,
with her wheel in, the bike works perfectly, and the wheel doesn't slip at
all with the quick release adjusted normally.

So, I think I've got it narrowed down to the problem being the original rear
hub. Maybe the teeth are worn down too much where it contacts the inside of
the dropout? Can that little part be replaced? Or, am I stuck buying a new
wheel or wheelset? I'm kinda nervous about dropping the cash on a new rear
wheel or wheelset without some feedback. But I will. I'm so frustrated,
I'm about ready to toss this bike off a bridge and go buy a new one. I just
can't stand losing any more road riding time now that the weather is
starting to get nice.

What do you all think about this? Have I made any sense? Have I missed
something??

Thanks for listening,
Chuck

Chuck wrote:

I've been struggling with my road bike. It's a two year old
Tommasini, with
full ultegra gruppo. Wheels are ultegra hubs with Mavic open 4's,
nothing
fancy.
I've been having trouble with the rear wheel pulling out of the
dropout on
the drive side.

It is difficult for lightweight, aluminum quick-release endcaps to get
enough "bite" on the hard chrome-plated steel dropout faces. Get a
skewer with knurled steel endcaps, such as the older, 8sp Dura Ace
type. This should clamp the wheel tightly enough to hold.

I've been struggling with my road bike. It's a two year old Tommasini,
with
full ultegra gruppo. Wheels are ultegra hubs with Mavic open 4's, nothing
fancy.
I've been having trouble with the rear wheel pulling out of the dropout on
the drive side. Almost any amount of pressure on the pedals causes the
wheel to shift to the left to the point where the tire rubs on the
chainstay. In it's current condition, it is unrideable.

I've tried tightening the quick release, almost to the point where I
almost
can't close it. That helps a little, but not much. I've also tried a new
rear quick release, a good quality one. Same results. I've cleaned and
degreased all the teeth on the hubs, the quick release, and the (chromed)
dropouts to make sure they weren't greasy. Same result. I made double
sure
that ends of the axle aren't protruding past the dropout as many of you
suggested. They are not, they only go about 1/2 way through the dropout
on
each side, and they're evenly spaced. I made sure both quick releases are
closing fully, and they are.

So, on a whim I tried putting on my girlfriend's rear wheel (a Rolf
Vector),
which has a shimano 105 quick release (so it fits on her trainer). Now,
with her wheel in, the bike works perfectly, and the wheel doesn't slip at
all with the quick release adjusted normally.

The obvious isn't clear to me- did you try the '105 rear quick release with
your Ultegra wheel? If that works, a new quick release is a heck of a lot
less-expensive than a new rear wheel!

Please note that *none* of the newer-style external cam quick releases work
as well as the traditional old-style versions. They may work well enough
with a vertical dropout and lubrication applied to their pivoting surfaces,
but I have yet to find one that provides anywhere near the clamping force of
the traditional style (without having to apply more force to the lever than
would seem reasonable).

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"Chuck" wrote in message
news:VDSPd.29325$uc.25636@trnddc03...
Hi folks:

I've been struggling with my road bike. It's a two year old Tommasini,
with
full ultegra gruppo. Wheels are ultegra hubs with Mavic open 4's, nothing
fancy.
I've been having trouble with the rear wheel pulling out of the dropout on
the drive side. Almost any amount of pressure on the pedals causes the
wheel to shift to the left to the point where the tire rubs on the
chainstay. In it's current condition, it is unrideable.

I've tried tightening the quick release, almost to the point where I
almost
can't close it. That helps a little, but not much. I've also tried a new
rear quick release, a good quality one. Same results. I've cleaned and
degreased all the teeth on the hubs, the quick release, and the (chromed)
dropouts to make sure they weren't greasy. Same result. I made double
sure
that ends of the axle aren't protruding past the dropout as many of you
suggested. They are not, they only go about 1/2 way through the dropout
on
each side, and they're evenly spaced. I made sure both quick releases are
closing fully, and they are.

So, on a whim I tried putting on my girlfriend's rear wheel (a Rolf
Vector),
which has a shimano 105 quick release (so it fits on her trainer). Now,
with her wheel in, the bike works perfectly, and the wheel doesn't slip at
all with the quick release adjusted normally.

So, I think I've got it narrowed down to the problem being the original
rear
hub. Maybe the teeth are worn down too much where it contacts the inside
of
the dropout? Can that little part be replaced? Or, am I stuck buying a
new
wheel or wheelset? I'm kinda nervous about dropping the cash on a new
rear
wheel or wheelset without some feedback. But I will. I'm so frustrated,
I'm about ready to toss this bike off a bridge and go buy a new one. I
just
can't stand losing any more road riding time now that the weather is
starting to get nice.

What do you all think about this? Have I made any sense? Have I missed
something??

Thanks for listening,
Chuck

Chuck wrote:
Hi folks:

I've been struggling with my road bike. It's a two year old
Tommasini, with full ultegra gruppo. Wheels are ultegra hubs with
Mavic open 4's, nothing fancy.
I've been having trouble with the rear wheel pulling out of the
dropout on the drive side. Almost any amount of pressure on the
pedals causes the wheel to shift to the left to the point where the
tire rubs on the chainstay. In it's current condition, it is
unrideable.

I've tried tightening the quick release, almost to the point where I
almost can't close it. That helps a little, but not much. I've also
tried a new rear quick release, a good quality one. Same results.
I've cleaned and degreased all the teeth on the hubs, the quick
release, and the (chromed) dropouts to make sure they weren't greasy.
Same result. I made double sure that ends of the axle aren't
protruding past the dropout as many of you suggested. They are not,
they only go about 1/2 way through the dropout on each side, and
they're evenly spaced. I made sure both quick releases are closing
fully, and they are.

So, on a whim I tried putting on my girlfriend's rear wheel (a Rolf
Vector), which has a shimano 105 quick release (so it fits on her
trainer). Now, with her wheel in, the bike works perfectly, and the
wheel doesn't slip at all with the quick release adjusted normally.

So, I think I've got it narrowed down to the problem being the
original rear hub. Maybe the teeth are worn down too much where it
contacts the inside of the dropout? Can that little part be
replaced? Or, am I stuck buying a new wheel or wheelset? I'm kinda
nervous about dropping the cash on a new rear wheel or wheelset
without some feedback. But I will. I'm so frustrated, I'm about
ready to toss this bike off a bridge and go buy a new one. I just
can't stand losing any more road riding time now that the weather is
starting to get nice.

What do you all think about this? Have I made any sense? Have I
missed something??

Thanks for listening,
Chuck
What kind of quick-release are you using on *your* wheel? Usually, a problem
like you describe is caused by the skewer not biting enough and allowing the
rear wheel to move. Try using your girlfriends quick-release. If the cures
the problem, buy your self a set of Shimano quick-releases.

"Dave Thompson" wrote in message
...
Chuck wrote:
Hi folks:

I've been struggling with my road bike. It's a two year old
Tommasini, with full ultegra gruppo. Wheels are ultegra hubs with
Mavic open 4's, nothing fancy.
I've been having trouble with the rear wheel pulling out of the
dropout on the drive side. Almost any amount of pressure on the
pedals causes the wheel to shift to the left to the point where the
tire rubs on the chainstay. In it's current condition, it is
unrideable.

I've tried tightening the quick release, almost to the point where I
almost can't close it. That helps a little, but not much. I've also
tried a new rear quick release, a good quality one. Same results.
I've cleaned and degreased all the teeth on the hubs, the quick
release, and the (chromed) dropouts to make sure they weren't greasy.
Same result. I made double sure that ends of the axle aren't
protruding past the dropout as many of you suggested. They are not,
they only go about 1/2 way through the dropout on each side, and
they're evenly spaced. I made sure both quick releases are closing
fully, and they are.

So, on a whim I tried putting on my girlfriend's rear wheel (a Rolf
Vector), which has a shimano 105 quick release (so it fits on her
trainer). Now, with her wheel in, the bike works perfectly, and the
wheel doesn't slip at all with the quick release adjusted normally.

So, I think I've got it narrowed down to the problem being the
original rear hub. Maybe the teeth are worn down too much where it
contacts the inside of the dropout? Can that little part be
replaced? Or, am I stuck buying a new wheel or wheelset? I'm kinda
nervous about dropping the cash on a new rear wheel or wheelset
without some feedback. But I will. I'm so frustrated, I'm about
ready to toss this bike off a bridge and go buy a new one. I just
can't stand losing any more road riding time now that the weather is
starting to get nice.

What do you all think about this? Have I made any sense? Have I
missed something??

Thanks for listening,
Chuck
What kind of quick-release are you using on *your* wheel? Usually, a
problem
like you describe is caused by the skewer not biting enough and allowing
the
rear wheel to move. Try using your girlfriends quick-release. If the cures
the problem, buy your self a set of Shimano quick-releases.



This was a problem of note with the Lemond Zurich frames. The original QR
nuts that came with the Rolf wheels didn't bite the chromed rear stay well
enough. LeMond sent replacement skewer nuts that had more bite to them and
it seemed to alleviate the problem.

"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote in message
news

The obvious isn't clear to me- did you try the '105 rear quick release
with
your Ultegra wheel? If that works, a new quick release is a heck of a lot
less-expensive than a new rear wheel!

My next move will definitely be to put her quick release on my wheel and see
what happens. It hadn't occured to me to try that.

Please note that *none* of the newer-style external cam quick releases
work
as well as the traditional old-style versions. They may work well enough
with a vertical dropout and lubrication applied to their pivoting
surfaces,
but I have yet to find one that provides anywhere near the clamping force
of
the traditional style (without having to apply more force to the lever
than
would seem reasonable).

Well, the new quick release I bought was indeed one of those newer external
cam types. (velomax) It was relatively cheap, and I figured it was worth a
shot.

Thanks,
Chuck

"Dave Thompson" wrote in message
...
What kind of quick-release are you using on *your* wheel? Usually, a
problem
like you describe is caused by the skewer not biting enough and allowing
the
rear wheel to move. Try using your girlfriends quick-release. If the cures
the problem, buy your self a set of Shimano quick-releases.

I have been using the original Shimano Ultegra ones, from a 2002 group. The
new ones I bought are from a Velomax wheelset. They are the cam-type. Both
have the same problem, although the Ultegra skewer will hold better, but
only with entirely too much tension on it when closed.

My next move will be to put her 105 quick release on my wheel. I don't know
why I didn't think of that.

Thanks,
C.

Chuck wrote:
Hi folks:

I've been struggling with my road bike. It's a two year old
Tommasini, with
full ultegra gruppo. Wheels are ultegra hubs with Mavic open 4's,
nothing
fancy.
I've been having trouble with the rear wheel pulling out of the
dropout on
the drive side. Almost any amount of pressure on the pedals causes
the
wheel to shift to the left to the point where the tire rubs on the
chainstay. In it's current condition, it is unrideable.

I've tried tightening the quick release, almost to the point where I
almost
can't close it. That helps a little, but not much. I've also tried
a new
rear quick release, a good quality one. Same results. I've cleaned
and
degreased all the teeth on the hubs, the quick release, and the
(chromed)
dropouts to make sure they weren't greasy. Same result. I made
double sure
that ends of the axle aren't protruding past the dropout as many of
you
suggested. They are not, they only go about 1/2 way through the
dropout on
each side, and they're evenly spaced. I made sure both quick
releases are
closing fully, and they are.

Does the hub/frame fit seem pretty normal (ie, are the rear spacing of
the frame and the "over-locknut-dimension" of the hub almost
identical?) How's the dropout alignment on the frame (need a shop tool
to check this unless it's overtly terrible, in which case that'd
probably be your problem).

So, on a whim I tried putting on my girlfriend's rear wheel (a Rolf
Vector),
which has a shimano 105 quick release (so it fits on her trainer).
Now,
with her wheel in, the bike works perfectly, and the wheel doesn't
slip at
all with the quick release adjusted normally.

What about your wheel on a different bike? What about your girlfriend's
QR on your wheel?

So, I think I've got it narrowed down to the problem being the
original rear
hub. Maybe the teeth are worn down too much where it contacts the
inside of
the dropout? Can that little part be replaced?

Yup, any LBS should have suitable replacement locknuts. However, even
if the locknut surface is really messed up, I sort of doubt that's
what's causing the problem - there are cheap QR hubs without teeth on
their locknuts. My impression is that the teeth are there to assist,
whereas if your wheel is slipping with minimal peddling force than it's
probably just not being clamped much at all. If the locknut teeth look
worn down though, I suppose you might as well try that. I do agree with
you that the problem is somewhere with the hub. I would check the hub
for signs of loose locknuts or cones, a bent/broken axle, or anything
else amiss with the axle. If any part of the axleset (or dropout or QR)
is managing to be a lot less rigid than it's supposed to be, that could
cause this problem - it's just about the only thing, I think.

Or, am I stuck buying a new
wheel or wheelset? I'm kinda nervous about dropping the cash on a
new rear
wheel or wheelset without some feedback. But I will. I'm so
frustrated,
I'm about ready to toss this bike off a bridge and go buy a new one.
I just
can't stand losing any more road riding time now that the weather is
starting to get nice.

What do you all think about this? Have I made any sense? Have I
missed
something??

Thanks for listening,
Chuck

Chuck wrote:
I've been struggling with my road bike. It's a two year old Tommasini, with
full ultegra gruppo. Wheels are ultegra hubs with Mavic open 4's, nothing
fancy.
I've been having trouble with the rear wheel pulling out of the dropout on
the drive side. Almost any amount of pressure on the pedals causes the
wheel to shift to the left to the point where the tire rubs on the
chainstay. In it's current condition, it is unrideable.

I've tried tightening the quick release, almost to the point where I almost
can't close it. That helps a little, but not much. I've also tried a new
rear quick release, a good quality one. Same results. I've cleaned and
degreased all the teeth on the hubs, the quick release, and the (chromed)
dropouts to make sure they weren't greasy. Same result. I made double sure
that ends of the axle aren't protruding past the dropout as many of you
suggested. They are not, they only go about 1/2 way through the dropout on
each side, and they're evenly spaced. I made sure both quick releases are
closing fully, and they are.

So, on a whim I tried putting on my girlfriend's rear wheel (a Rolf Vector),
which has a shimano 105 quick release (so it fits on her trainer). Now,
with her wheel in, the bike works perfectly, and the wheel doesn't slip at
all with the quick release adjusted normally.

So, I think I've got it narrowed down to the problem being the original rear
hub. Maybe the teeth are worn down too much where it contacts the inside of
the dropout? Can that little part be replaced? Or, am I stuck buying a new
wheel or wheelset? I'm kinda nervous about dropping the cash on a new rear
wheel or wheelset without some feedback. But I will. I'm so frustrated,
I'm about ready to toss this bike off a bridge and go buy a new one. I just
can't stand losing any more road riding time now that the weather is
starting to get nice.

What do you all think about this? Have I made any sense? Have I missed
something??

You're on the right track - it's the clamping force of the
skewer usually.

(That can sometimes be traced to a smooth-faced hub locknut.
Your Shimano's are serrated, and you didn't wear them down
in 2 seasons.)

Did you oil the cam inside your skewer? Try that first. It
usually cures the problem. That cam is trying to translate
your pressure on the handle to a lateral pull through the
hub. Dry cam faces have more drag than you'd at first imagine.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Chuck wrote:
My next move will definitely be to put her quick release on my wheel and see
what happens. It hadn't occured to me to try that.
Please note that *none* of the newer-style external cam quick releases
work
as well as the traditional old-style versions. They may work well enough
with a vertical dropout and lubrication applied to their pivoting
surfaces,
but I have yet to find one that provides anywhere near the clamping force
of
the traditional style (without having to apply more force to the lever
than
would seem reasonable).

"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote in message
news
The obvious isn't clear to me- did you try the '105 rear quick release
with
your Ultegra wheel? If that works, a new quick release is a heck of a lot
less-expensive than a new rear wheel!

Chuck wrote:
Well, the new quick release I bought was indeed one of those newer external
cam types. (velomax) It was relatively cheap, and I figured it was worth a
shot.

In my earlier reply I assumed that "full Ultegra" meant "all
Shimano Ultegra equipment".

Yes, by all means get a traditional style steel skewer. And
lubricate the cam, too!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971