InterBike

Chalo wrote:
jim beam wrote:
besides, if sockets are such a structural benefit, why don't mtb rims
have them? �[rhetorical] �none do as far as i know. �

http://www.mavic.com/mtb/products/ex....995014.2.aspx

Chalo


ok, noted. but their normal mtb disk rims don't have them afaik, and
that application has more spoke loading than a road rim.

On Sep 27, 12:05 pm, wrote:
More disappointing than last year with more fashion than in the past
and no new products pr solution. I found not a single rim that had
sockets and eyelets and the shop owners who stopped to look complained
they get a lot of cracked rims..


A proper eyeletted ~500g Alex rim from Taiwan runs less than $20 OEM
and highly resistant to cracking. Can we lay off the bull****? Sockets
are great if you're making rims from Euro-cheese.

Did you also lament the lack of modern spoon brake tech?

landotter wrote:

Jobst Brandt wrote:

More disappointing than last year with more fashion than in the past
and no new products pr solution. *I found not a single rim that had
sockets and eyelets and the shop owners who stopped to look complained
they get a lot of cracked rims..

A proper eyeletted ~500g Alex rim from Taiwan runs less than $20 OEM
and highly resistant to cracking. Can we lay off the bull****? Sockets
are great if you're making rims from Euro-cheese.

Mmmm, Euro-cheese. The best kind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fromager_d%27Affinois

Chalo

On Sep 28, 3:36 am, Chalo wrote:
landotter wrote:

Jobst Brandt wrote:

More disappointing than last year with more fashion than in the past
and no new products pr solution. I found not a single rim that had
sockets and eyelets and the shop owners who stopped to look complained
they get a lot of cracked rims..

A proper eyeletted ~500g Alex rim from Taiwan runs less than $20 OEM
and highly resistant to cracking. Can we lay off the bull****? Sockets
are great if you're making rims from Euro-cheese.

Mmmm, Euro-cheese. The best kind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fromager_d%27Affinois


"The cheese is made in 4.4 pound wheels."

That just made the hamsters in my brain squeak!

On Sep 26, 10:05*pm, wrote:
More disappointing than last year with more fashion than in the past
and no new products pr solution. *I found not a single rim that had
sockets and eyelets and the shop owners who stopped to look complained
they get a lot of cracked rims. *To make up for that a CVT using
tilt-ball friction drive tried to convince me that I was wrong about
the not being such a device that is continuous while using positive
engagement gears. *When I saw how it worked, I pointed out that many
machine tools were run that way and that their hub was horrendously
heavy.

I am surprised that they received 30+ patents on this ancient drive
mechanism that Leonardo sketched centuries ago:

*http://cocolico.info/design/nuvinci-fallbrook-bike

There were no tire patches and few tire pumps but rather CO2
cartridges.

Large billboards had photos of macho-men grimacing jut jawed with
three day stubble on their faces. *I mentioned that I see enough of
these poseurs who are so busy with their schtick that they cannot
respond to a greeting from a bicyclist going the other way. *The best
design I saw was the STRIDA commute /folding bicycle:

http://www.strida.us/

I was saddened to see that Switzerland had lost their logo, something
I always found endearing, being a fan to the great William Tell who
stands in Canto Uri bigger than life with crossbow over his right
shoulder and his small son on his left.

http://www.tell.ch/schweiz/telldenkmal.htm

All articles made in Switzerland had a small crossbow that was far more
elegant than "Swiss Made" or "Made in Switzerland"":

http://www.swisslabel.ch/d/

No Swiss product carries that logo anymore3 and DT SWISS spokes said
the feds had tightened down on use of national emblems in business.

Jobst Brandt

Altho there are at least 4-5 makers of socketed/double eyeleted rims,
I agree with Jobst that Interbike, along with all the bike trade
shows, is awash with fashion, not function. Oneupsmanship, with things
like integrated seat masts, 1 1/8 to 1.5 inch forks, oversized BB
shells and goofy carbon shapes that do nothing to make the ride
better, only more expensive. The casual rider will flock to these
things, scoring coffee shop points over their buddies on Sunday
morning and ignoring the poor ride, the outrageous expense and poor
reliability these newest designs give. Meanwhile bike shops that focus
on service will service these things, spending lots of time and
customer's $ to find creaks, fix uberlight and unreliable wheels and
try to get these bikesouttaboxes to fit, since the bike shop that sold
it had no clue, once more.

On Sep 28, 8:08 pm, Qui si parla Campagnolo
wrote:
On Sep 26, 10:05 pm, wrote:



More disappointing than last year with more fashion than in the past
and no new products pr solution. I found not a single rim that had
sockets and eyelets and the shop owners who stopped to look complained
they get a lot of cracked rims. To make up for that a CVT using
tilt-ball friction drive tried to convince me that I was wrong about
the not being such a device that is continuous while using positive
engagement gears. When I saw how it worked, I pointed out that many
machine tools were run that way and that their hub was horrendously
heavy.

I am surprised that they received 30+ patents on this ancient drive
mechanism that Leonardo sketched centuries ago:

http://cocolico.info/design/nuvinci-fallbrook-bike

There were no tire patches and few tire pumps but rather CO2
cartridges.

Large billboards had photos of macho-men grimacing jut jawed with
three day stubble on their faces. I mentioned that I see enough of
these poseurs who are so busy with their schtick that they cannot
respond to a greeting from a bicyclist going the other way. The best
design I saw was the STRIDA commute /folding bicycle:

http://www.strida.us/

I was saddened to see that Switzerland had lost their logo, something
I always found endearing, being a fan to the great William Tell who
stands in Canto Uri bigger than life with crossbow over his right
shoulder and his small son on his left.

http://www.tell.ch/schweiz/telldenkmal.htm

All articles made in Switzerland had a small crossbow that was far more
elegant than "Swiss Made" or "Made in Switzerland"":

http://www.swisslabel.ch/d/

No Swiss product carries that logo anymore3 and DT SWISS spokes said
the feds had tightened down on use of national emblems in business.

Jobst Brandt

Altho there are at least 4-5 makers of socketed/double eyeleted rims,
I agree with Jobst that Interbike, along with all the bike trade
shows, is awash with fashion, not function. Oneupsmanship, with things
like integrated seat masts, 1 1/8 to 1.5 inch forks, oversized BB
shells and goofy carbon shapes that do nothing to make the ride
better, only more expensive. The casual rider will flock to these
things, scoring coffee shop points over their buddies on Sunday
morning and ignoring the poor ride, the outrageous expense and poor
reliability these newest designs give. Meanwhile bike shops that focus
on service will service these things, spending lots of time and
customer's $ to find creaks, fix uberlight and unreliable wheels and
try to get these bikesouttaboxes to fit, since the bike shop that sold
it had no clue, once more.

I'm sitting with my thermos drinking some Costa Rican power aide at
the LBS when a man with an aero belly comes in for an adjustment on
just such a bikeouttaabox--he's confused because the bike is making a
tk tk tk sound and he spent soooo much money on it.. Of course, D.
puts the wheel in the stand, crap build--finds the one loose spoke.
TVs on....McCain comes on...aerobelly man says, "I'm voting for that
guy, I dunno why, I just like him!" I suspect that McCain was just a
stem shifter on that man's horizon-but with the allure of Mooselini
and her Shotgun Fibre Tri-spoke, he was captivated!

"Hey, let's put the spoke nipples on the handlebars!"

"SMS" wrote in message
...
Chalo wrote:

MTB rims have it easier in some regards than road bike rims. They are
larger in section and smaller in hoop diameter, and riding stresses
are more evenly distributed by the fat tire. I'd not be at all
surprised if fluctuations in spoke tension were greater in skinny-tire
wheels even if the overall duty of the bike is lighter.

This is very true. Road rims are much more difficult to engineer because
the stress is not well distributed.

As far as Interbike, remember that most companies bring only a small
subset of their products to the show. No doubt many of the rim
manufacturers showing their "stupid-light" rims, do have more practical
products with sockets and eyelets to make the rims more reliable.

Apparently many enthusiasts walk into a bike shop with a small scale and a
credit card with a high limit. These are very profitable customers for
shops, and these customers help subsidize the operation of the less
profitable goods and services the shop offers. It's like the car buyers
that walk into a car dealer and happily pay "invoice" or MSRP, then add an
extended warranty, pin striping, undercoating, fabric guard, glass
etching, paint protectant, etc., giving the dealer enough profit to allow
them to sell the same vehicle to other customers for well under invoice.

Light bikes and equipment is the new battle-cry for churning consumer sales.
Let's not lose focus that this is a consumer business and every few years
the sales game will shift a bit. So be it. That is what is going to drive
the sales for the bike shops. There has to be a reason for the consumer to
want to trade in the bike every few years. New components, new frame
designs, lighter stuff, new paint schemes, you name it. Without sales
dollars shops will need to close and we don't need that. Let us agree on
that one.

I visited a few of the carbon frame OEM booths. There is stuff being offered
that is so light, it's amazing. Some of our dealers have told us that they
try to get their customers to change bikes every three years. With the stuff
being offered, I can see how that is possible to accomplish. I truly wonder
if these ultra light frames will actually hold up for three years. I may
just bring in a few just to see... The only problem with monocoque is
reparability. On the other hand, do you really want a customer riding around
on a frame that has failed once before?

One OEM has a system that uses pre-made tubes. Then they do miter joints and
pin the thing together, I assume there are some wraps of carbon material to
secure the joints. It would be a nice touch you know. They were blabbing
about a .85Kg frame weight. I like my dentist, but I don't love the SOB that
much.

Bruce