Bike Fit question: shorter seat tube with same TT length

I'm currently riding a 10-year old Novara Strada bike that is
supposedly a 60cm. I measured the tob tube as 57cm, which is the same
as the BB to the center of the top tube. Head tube measures
20.32cm.

It is my first road bike and I always thought it was a bit big. I
even developed a hand problem after riding for a summer (I had to see
a hand specialist!).

Well after looking, and riding, a lot of bikes I put money down last
night on a 57cm 2008 Orbea Onix TDA. I got it for $1650 + a $50 gift
card for accessories. All carbon. I have not yet picked up the
bike. According to Orbea's website, the top tube measure 57cm just
like my "60cm" Novara. But the Seat Tube measures 52cm which is 5cm
shorter than the Novara with the *same* TT length! Does this make
*any* difference? If the seat tube is shorter, is raising the seat
equivalent?

I tried bikes that had a more "comfortable" fit such as the Trek
Pilot, and I almost bought a Specalized Roubaix. All of these bikes
have taller headtubes for a more relaxed ride ((the Orbea head tube is
18.2cm) ). The Orbea is supposedly more "aggressive". This worries
me a bit as I'm struggling with comfort and I am really only doing 20-
mile casual rides 2-3 times a week. Am I buying the wrong bike? Bike
Shop won't let me do a 20-mile ride and I haven't had a chance to cart
my Novara over there for one-on-one comparisons.

Thanks

On Oct 7, 11:52*am, wrote:
I'm currently riding a 10-year old Novara Strada bike that is
supposedly a 60cm. *I measured the tob tube as 57cm, which is the same
as the BB to the center of the top tube. *Head tube measures
20.32cm.

It is my first road bike and I always thought it was a bit big. *I
even developed a hand problem after riding for a summer (I had to see
a hand specialist!).

Well after looking, and riding, a lot of bikes I put money down last
night on a 57cm 2008 Orbea Onix TDA. *I got it for $1650 + a $50 gift
card for accessories. *All carbon. *I have not yet picked up the
bike. *According to Orbea's website, the top tube measure 57cm just
like my "60cm" Novara. *But the Seat Tube measures 52cm which is 5cm
shorter than the Novara with the *same* TT length! *Does this make
*any* difference? *If the seat tube is shorter, is raising the seat
equivalent?

I tried bikes that had a more "comfortable" fit such as the Trek
Pilot, and I almost bought a Specalized Roubaix. *All of these bikes
have taller headtubes for a more relaxed ride ((the Orbea head tube is
18.2cm) ). * The Orbea is supposedly more "aggressive". *This worries
me a bit as I'm struggling with comfort and I am really only doing 20-
mile casual rides 2-3 times a week. *Am I buying the wrong bike? *Bike
Shop won't let me do a 20-mile ride and I haven't had a chance to cart
my Novara over there for one-on-one comparisons.

Thanks

There are ways of getting the bars where you need them to be if this
is the bike you're happy with. Seat tube size matters little these
days, BTW.

On Oct 7, 12:52*pm, wrote:
I'm currently riding a 10-year old Novara Strada bike that is
supposedly a 60cm. *I measured the tob tube as 57cm, which is the same
as the BB to the center of the top tube. *Head tube measures
20.32cm.

It is my first road bike and I always thought it was a bit big. *I
even developed a hand problem after riding for a summer (I had to see
a hand specialist!).

Well after looking, and riding, a lot of bikes I put money down last
night on a 57cm 2008 Orbea Onix TDA. *I got it for $1650 + a $50 gift
card for accessories. *All carbon. *I have not yet picked up the
bike. *According to Orbea's website, the top tube measure 57cm just
like my "60cm" Novara. *But the Seat Tube measures 52cm which is 5cm
shorter than the Novara with the *same* TT length! *Does this make
*any* difference? *If the seat tube is shorter, is raising the seat
equivalent?

I tried bikes that had a more "comfortable" fit such as the Trek
Pilot, and I almost bought a Specalized Roubaix. *All of these bikes
have taller headtubes for a more relaxed ride ((the Orbea head tube is
18.2cm) ). * The Orbea is supposedly more "aggressive". *This worries
me a bit as I'm struggling with comfort and I am really only doing 20-
mile casual rides 2-3 times a week. *Am I buying the wrong bike? *Bike
Shop won't let me do a 20-mile ride and I haven't had a chance to cart
my Novara over there for one-on-one comparisons.

Thanks

the comfortable fit you refer to, is that as you desribe it or the
sales literature ? if it is your description then why did you go for
the orbea ? 2 or 3 20 mile rides a week is not hardcore, so why did
you go for more aggressive geometry, ? further you hand problems are
possibly related to your position on the bike, an aggressive position
means hands in the drops, which puts more pressure on some of the
sensitive nerves in your hand ( ie carpal tunnel syndrom); you may
well keep that hand specalists number handy

wrote:
I'm currently riding a 10-year old Novara Strada bike that is
supposedly a 60cm. *I measured the tob tube as 57cm, which is the same
as the BB to the center of the top tube. *Head tube measures
20.32cm.

It is my first road bike and I always thought it was a bit big. *I
even developed a hand problem after riding for a summer (I had to see
a hand specialist!).

Well after looking, and riding, a lot of bikes I put money down last
night on a 57cm 2008 Orbea Onix TDA. *I got it for $1650 + a $50 gift
card for accessories. *All carbon. *I have not yet picked up the
bike. *According to Orbea's website, the top tube measure 57cm just
like my "60cm" Novara. *But the Seat Tube measures 52cm which is 5cm
shorter than the Novara with the *same* TT length! *Does this make
*any* difference? *If the seat tube is shorter, is raising the seat
equivalent?


You left out an important fact: Do the bikes both have horizontal top
tubes (or sloping)? That will make a big difference in seat tube
length. Sloping top tube frames use longer seat posts to achieve
proper fit. And some slope more than others.

How did you come to pick the Orbea after trying "a lot of bikes?"

I'd be more concerned with fit, type of bike (racing, touring, cross),
wheels, tires, and tire clearance, than with it having a carbon frame
and components.

Art Harris

You left out an important fact: Do the bikes both have horizontal top
tubes (or sloping)? That will make a big difference in seat tube
length. Sloping top tube frames use longer seat posts to achieve
proper fit. And some slope more than others.


The Novara has a straight top tube. The Orbea somewhat slopes.

How did you come to pick the Orbea after trying "a lot of bikes?"


One problem is that the bikes I try are often at different stores and
it is hard to compare them.

I was gonna get a Trek 2.1. But friend steered me away from Tiagra
and the salesman told me that a carbon frame would help with my hand
discomfort (he said it had a similar effect as wearing thick gel
gloves).

I was gonna get a Specialized Roubaix 2009, but the bike I tried had a
loong stem, so it wasn't terribly comfortable and it is $1850, which
is starting to really get pricey. I know the stem can be changed, but
it was something I didn't get a chance to evaluate.

The salesman for the Orbea swapped in a shorter stem. The bike "spoke
to me" I guess. It felt like a sportscar and didn't seem too
uncomfortable. Price is at the high-end of what I wanted to spend,
but it seems like a decent deal for $1600. The only bike I compared
the Orbea to, back-to-back, was a Trek Pilot with its upright riding
position. Something wasn't right with it.

I guess if I'm only doing 25-mile rides 2-3 times per week, maybe I
should just stick with an entry-level Tiagra or Sora-class bike...

On Oct 8, 11:32*am, wrote:
On Oct 7, 12:52*pm, wrote:



I'm currently riding a 10-year old Novara Strada bike that is
supposedly a 60cm. *I measured the tob tube as 57cm, which is the same
as the BB to the center of the top tube. *Head tube measures
20.32cm.

It is my first road bike and I always thought it was a bit big. *I
even developed a hand problem after riding for a summer (I had to see
a hand specialist!).

Well after looking, and riding, a lot of bikes I put money down last
night on a 57cm 2008 Orbea Onix TDA. *I got it for $1650 + a $50 gift
card for accessories. *All carbon. *I have not yet picked up the
bike. *According to Orbea's website, the top tube measure 57cm just
like my "60cm" Novara. *But the Seat Tube measures 52cm which is 5cm
shorter than the Novara with the *same* TT length! *Does this make
*any* difference? *If the seat tube is shorter, is raising the seat
equivalent?

I tried bikes that had a more "comfortable" fit such as the Trek
Pilot, and I almost bought a Specalized Roubaix. *All of these bikes
have taller headtubes for a more relaxed ride ((the Orbea head tube is
18.2cm) ). * The Orbea is supposedly more "aggressive". *This worries
me a bit as I'm struggling with comfort and I am really only doing 20-
mile casual rides 2-3 times a week. *Am I buying the wrong bike? *Bike
Shop won't let me do a 20-mile ride and I haven't had a chance to cart
my Novara over there for one-on-one comparisons.

Thanks

the comfortable fit you refer to, is that as you desribe it or the
sales literature ? if it is your description then why did you go for
the orbea ? 2 or 3 20 mile rides a week is not hardcore, so why did
you go for more aggressive geometry, ? further you hand problems are
possibly related to your position on the bike, an aggressive position
means hands in the drops, which puts more pressure on some of the
sensitive nerves in your hand ( ie carpal tunnel syndrom); you may
well keep that hand specalists number handy

Sales literature and just looking at how their head tubes are taller.

The most comfortable bike I've ever tried was a 2003 Trek 5900 with a
stem that has quite an angle. So I know that an "aggressive" racing
geometry can be made comfortable with the right stem.

But the problem is that I realized my existing bike is basically the
same length of Top Tube as the Orbea I put money on. So now I'm just
reconsidering what I am doing.

wrote:
The Novara has a straight top tube. *The Orbea somewhat slopes.


Aha! That's what I suspected.

How did you come to pick the Orbea after trying "a lot of bikes?"

One problem is that the bikes I try are often at different stores and
it is hard to compare them.

I was gonna get a Trek 2.1. *But friend steered me away from Tiagra
and the salesman told me that a carbon frame would help with my hand
discomfort (he said it had a similar effect as wearing thick gel
gloves).


I have no first hand experience with Tiagra, but it definitely isn't
junk. Maybe lacking in snob appeal. I don't buy the claim that carbon
absorbs shock better either.

I was gonna get a Specialized Roubaix 2009, but the bike I tried had a
loong stem, so it wasn't terribly comfortable and it is $1850, which
is starting to really get pricey. *I know the stem can be changed, but
it was something I didn't get a chance to evaluate.



The salesman for the Orbea swapped in a shorter stem. The bike "spoke
to me" I guess. *It felt like a sportscar and didn't seem too
uncomfortable.


"Didn't seem too uncomfortable" isn't a great testimonial. I hope
you're not buying the sizzle instead of the steak

*Price is at the high-end of what I wanted to spend,
but it seems like a decent deal for $1600. The only bike I compared
the Orbea to, back-to-back, was a Trek Pilot with its upright riding
position. *Something wasn't right with it.


Well, I hope it works out. A good "deal" doesn't ensure an appropriate
bike.

I guess if I'm only doing 25-mile rides 2-3 times per week, maybe I
should just stick with an entry-level Tiagra or Sora-class bike...


Or try to get better fit on the Novara. Maybe a shorter or higher
stem. A more upright position would help with your hand problems.

Art Harris

On Oct 8, 3:47*pm, wrote:
On Oct 8, 11:32*am, wrote:





On Oct 7, 12:52*pm, wrote:

I'm currently riding a 10-year old Novara Strada bike that is
supposedly a 60cm. *I measured the tob tube as 57cm, which is the same
as the BB to the center of the top tube. *Head tube measures
20.32cm.

It is my first road bike and I always thought it was a bit big. *I
even developed a hand problem after riding for a summer (I had to see
a hand specialist!).

Well after looking, and riding, a lot of bikes I put money down last
night on a 57cm 2008 Orbea Onix TDA. *I got it for $1650 + a $50 gift
card for accessories. *All carbon. *I have not yet picked up the
bike. *According to Orbea's website, the top tube measure 57cm just
like my "60cm" Novara. *But the Seat Tube measures 52cm which is 5cm
shorter than the Novara with the *same* TT length! *Does this make
*any* difference? *If the seat tube is shorter, is raising the seat
equivalent?

I tried bikes that had a more "comfortable" fit such as the Trek
Pilot, and I almost bought a Specalized Roubaix. *All of these bikes
have taller headtubes for a more relaxed ride ((the Orbea head tube is
18.2cm) ). * The Orbea is supposedly more "aggressive". *This worries
me a bit as I'm struggling with comfort and I am really only doing 20-
mile casual rides 2-3 times a week. *Am I buying the wrong bike? *Bike
Shop won't let me do a 20-mile ride and I haven't had a chance to cart
my Novara over there for one-on-one comparisons.

Thanks

the comfortable fit you refer to, is that as you desribe it or the
sales literature ? if it is your description then why did you go for
the orbea ? 2 or 3 20 mile rides a week is not hardcore, so why did
you go for more aggressive geometry, ? further you hand problems are
possibly related to your position on the bike, an aggressive position
means hands in the drops, which puts more pressure on some of the
sensitive nerves in your hand ( ie carpal tunnel syndrom); you may
well keep that hand specalists number handy

Sales literature and just looking at how their head tubes are taller.

The most comfortable bike I've ever tried was a 2003 Trek 5900 with a
stem that has quite an angle. *So I know that an "aggressive" racing
geometry can be made comfortable with the right stem.

But the problem is that I realized my existing bike is basically the
same length of Top Tube as the Orbea I put money on. *So now I'm just
reconsidering what I am doing.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

position and comfort are key- can he let you test the bike on rollers
in-store ?

On Oct 7, 9:52*am, papagordygra
I'm currently riding a 10-year old Novara Strada bike that is
supposedly a 60cm. *I measured the tob tube as 57cm, which is the same
as the BB to the center of the top tube. *Head tube measures
20.32cm.

It is my first road bike and I always thought it was a bit big. *I
even developed a hand problem after riding for a summer (I had to see
a hand specialist!).

Well after looking, and riding, a lot of bikes I put money down last
night on a 57cm 2008 Orbea Onix TDA. *I got it for $1650 + a $50 gift
card for accessories. *All carbon. *I have not yet picked up the
bike. *According to Orbea's website, the top tube measure 57cm just
like my "60cm" Novara. *But the Seat Tube measures 52cm which is 5cm
shorter than the Novara with the *same* TT length! *Does this make
*any* difference? *If the seat tube is shorter, is raising the seat
equivalent?

I tried bikes that had a more "comfortable" fit such as the Trek
Pilot, and I almost bought a Specalized Roubaix. *All of these bikes
have taller headtubes for a more relaxed ride ((the Orbea head tube is
18.2cm) ). * The Orbea is supposedly more "aggressive". *This worries
me a bit as I'm struggling with comfort and I am really only doing 20-
mile casual rides 2-3 times a week. *Am I buying the wrong bike? *Bike
Shop won't let me do a 20-mile ride and I haven't had a chance to cart
my Novara over there for one-on-one comparisons.

Thanks

seat tube length is almost irrelevant. Seat tube angle, seat post
setback, head tube length and to a small extent bb height are the
important parts in fitting. Also how the t.t. is measured (virtual or
actual) on both bikes.

that said the right stem and handlebar can make a bike that is good
feel great.

see a good fitter (likely not the salesman who sold you the bike, no
offence but fitting is not something that every salesperson does
well.) I have found that almost every orbea needs a diffrent sem
unless you are very flexable.

good luck
johnny