Linear pull brakes on old frame

I've got a steel MTB frame I'd like to build up as a commuter bike,
mostly with parts already lying in my garage. However, the frame (a '96
Trek MTB frame) was equipped with centerpull canti brakes, while I'd
like to use a set of linear pulls (AKA "V") I've got lying around since
upgrading my fun bike to discs.

My problem is the wiring for the rear brake. The frame hasn't got more
than two cable stops (for the gear wires) on the rear end of the top
tube, since the brake cable was routed through a small "noodle" snaking
around the seat tube. I've been considering several possible solutions:

- Cut most of the existing steel "noodle", force the rearmost brake
cable housing into the remaining part
- Full-housing brake cable all the way from the lever, fastened with zip
ties
- Try to locate some type of clamp-on cable stop for the brake cable
- Keep the old centerpulls and live with kludgy brake pad adjustment &
less braking power (not a very appealing solution, since my commute
involves a couple of steep downhills with a child in the back seat)

Any opiniona on what I should do? It would be nice if I found an elegant
solution which gave good braking as well. I'd prefer to use the vees,
since I'm used to that system...

--
Størker Moe
'97 GT Avalanche, '98 Trek 800, '01 Trek Fuel 90

Email Storker(DOT)Moe(AT)chemeng(DOT)ntnu(DOT)no
WWW http://www.chemeng.ntnu.no/~stmoe/

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

"Størker Moe" wrote:

I've been considering several possible solutions:

[snip]

- Full-housing brake cable all the way from the lever, fastened
with zip ties

That's what I've done in the same situation. Modern brake housings have
very little drag, and a single run of housing reduces the number of entry
points for water.

James Thomson

On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 09:55:44 +0100, Størker Moe
may have said:

Any opiniona on what I should do? It would be nice if I found an elegant
solution which gave good braking as well. I'd prefer to use the vees,
since I'm used to that system...

The rear brake isn't the one that does most of the work, so you could
always just run a mixed system...but bear in mind that cantis and
V-brakes need a different lever ratio, so if you went that route,
you'd likely end up with mismatched levers. (Not necessarily, though;
several suppliers now offer levers with two pull points which can
accomodate either type of brake.)

Otherwise, yes, a clamp-on brake cable stop can be had in several
diameters;

http://www.loosescrews.com/index.cgi...id=43966319010

or

http://tinyurl.com/3usz6

If the frame is steel, a good lbs could also braze on a stop where you
need it, though that would mean applying some touch-up paint
afterwards.

There are other less elegant lash-ups that might be possible for
someone with the tooling required to fabricate assorted adapter
doodads, but I will assume that if this were the case, you'd have
already solved the problem.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Størker Moe wrote:

I've got a steel MTB frame I'd like to build up as a commuter bike,
mostly with parts already lying in my garage. However, the frame (a '96
Trek MTB frame) was equipped with centerpull canti brakes, while I'd
like to use a set of linear pulls (AKA "V") I've got lying around since
upgrading my fun bike to discs.

My problem is the wiring for the rear brake. The frame hasn't got more
than two cable stops (for the gear wires) on the rear end of the top
tube, since the brake cable was routed through a small "noodle" snaking
around the seat tube. I've been considering several possible solutions:

- Cut most of the existing steel "noodle", force the rearmost brake
cable housing into the remaining part
- Full-housing brake cable all the way from the lever, fastened with zip
ties
- Try to locate some type of clamp-on cable stop for the brake cable
- Keep the old centerpulls and live with kludgy brake pad adjustment &
less braking power (not a very appealing solution, since my commute
involves a couple of steep downhills with a child in the back seat)

Any opiniona on what I should do? It would be nice if I found an elegant
solution which gave good braking as well. I'd prefer to use the vees,
since I'm used to that system...

Don't rely on a clamped brake casing stop. Either run full
casing to the noodle or find a stepped ferrule which can fit
in the steel tube brazed to your seat cluster.

Remember you will need linear brake type levers - your
cantilever controls don't move enough cable.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 02.02.05 21:26 A Muzi wrote:
Størker Moe wrote:

[snip]
I've been considering several possible solutions:

- Cut most of the existing steel "noodle", force the rearmost brake
cable housing into the remaining part
- Full-housing brake cable all the way from the lever, fastened with
zip ties
- Try to locate some type of clamp-on cable stop for the brake cable
- Keep the old centerpulls and live with kludgy brake pad adjustment &
less braking power (not a very appealing solution, since my commute
involves a couple of steep downhills with a child in the back seat)

Any opiniona on what I should do? It would be nice if I found an
elegant solution which gave good braking as well. I'd prefer to use
the vees, since I'm used to that system...


Don't rely on a clamped brake casing stop.

Why do you mean that? I don't know about this, but some stores do sell
that kind of thingamajigs.

Either run full casing to
the noodle or find a stepped ferrule which can fit in the steel tube
brazed to your seat cluster.

Then I'll prob'ly gonna try the last one. It looks slightly neater. If
it gives too much friction, I'll just have to go full housing and live
with the zip ties.

Remember you will need linear brake type levers - your cantilever
controls don't move enough cable.

Yup, I know that. A pair of LX V levers (the pressed-plate type
construction) is another thing I've got lying around. Two-finger levers
give better hand clearance in the cold when I'm using mittens, IMO.

--
Størker Moe
'97 GT Avalanche, '98 Trek 800, '01 Trek Fuel 90

Email Storker(DOT)Moe(AT)chemeng(DOT)ntnu(DOT)no
WWW http://www.chemeng.ntnu.no/~stmoe/

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

On 02.02.05 17:21 Werehatrack wrote:
On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 09:55:44 +0100, Størker Moe
may have said:


Any opiniona on what I should do? It would be nice if I found an elegant
solution which gave good braking as well. I'd prefer to use the vees,
since I'm used to that system...


The rear brake isn't the one that does most of the work, so you could
always just run a mixed system...but bear in mind that cantis and
V-brakes need a different lever ratio, so if you went that route,
you'd likely end up with mismatched levers. (Not necessarily, though;
several suppliers now offer levers with two pull points which can
accomodate either type of brake.)

Sure, but then I'd have to spend some money for new levers, which I
don't want to do. I've got both a pair of cantilever levers and a pair
of vee levers lying around, and this project is on a budget. Also, since
the bike will be used for commuting and I'm working on a university
campus, I don't want the bike to *look* too good. Thus, old but good parts.

Otherwise, yes, a clamp-on brake cable stop can be had in several
diameters;

http://www.loosescrews.com/index.cgi...id=43966319010

or

http://tinyurl.com/3usz6

Andu Muzi advises against that kind of a solution. Conflicting opinions?

If the frame is steel, a good lbs could also braze on a stop where you
need it, though that would mean applying some touch-up paint
afterwards.

Tempting. I think I'll just check on pricing for that kind of a job.
Depends on how well I like the bike when it's built up. It's a mid-90s
Trek steel frame of low to medium standard (an 850), and it's planned to
replace a way to heavy and wide-tubed 800 frame I have now.

There's a certain "je ne sais quoi" about old-fashioned small-diameter
steel tubing...
--
Størker Moe
'97 GT Avalanche, '98 Trek 800, '01 Trek Fuel 90

Email Storker(DOT)Moe(AT)chemeng(DOT)ntnu(DOT)no
WWW http://www.chemeng.ntnu.no/~stmoe/

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

Its easy,done it twice with late 80's Schwinn frame and
a mid 90's GT frame. Use all new cable housing and cut to where needed.
Use the stops and where needed ties. Its comes out to better stopping
power and easier brake adjustments with V brakes. Make sure the rims are
compatible with brakes like no crome plated rims EL cheapo.

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 08:55:15 +0100, Størker Moe
may have said:

On 02.02.05 17:21 Werehatrack wrote:

The rear brake isn't the one that does most of the work, so you could
always just run a mixed system...

... I've got both a pair of cantilever levers and a pair
of vee levers lying around, and this project is on a budget. Also, since
the bike will be used for commuting and I'm working on a university
campus, I don't want the bike to *look* too good. Thus, old but good parts.

This would also seem to suggest that having mixed, unmatched levers
would add to the ambiance you seek.

Otherwise, yes, a clamp-on brake cable stop can be had in several
diameters;

http://www.loosescrews.com/index.cgi...id=43966319010

or

http://tinyurl.com/3usz6

Andu Muzi advises against that kind of a solution. Conflicting opinions?

Although I'm not fond of them, the stress on them is seldom high
enough to displace them if they fit *properly*, and are applied to
tubing that's not extremely thin. In the right application, they can
work just fine...but on thinwall and odd-diameter tubes, they can be a
mistake. I can't say if your 850 has tubes that would make this a
good option.

If the frame is steel, a good lbs could also braze on a stop where you
need it, though that would mean applying some touch-up paint
afterwards.

Tempting. I think I'll just check on pricing for that kind of a job.
Depends on how well I like the bike when it's built up. It's a mid-90s
Trek steel frame of low to medium standard (an 850), and it's planned to
replace a way to heavy and wide-tubed 800 frame I have now.

There's a certain "je ne sais quoi" about old-fashioned small-diameter
steel tubing...

It sounds a lot like the steel frame of the older 800 that my daughter
rides; the welded tube for the rear canti on that one would be a
problem to modify for V-brake usage cleanly. I think I'd either go
with a mixed setup or take one of the other posters' advice and run
housing all the way with cable ties.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Størker Moe wrote:
-snip-
- Try to locate some type of clamp-on cable stop for the brake cable
-snip-

On 02.02.05 21:26 A Muzi wrote:
Don't rely on a clamped brake casing stop.
-snip-
Størker Moe wrote:
Why do you mean that? I don't know about this, but some stores do sell
that kind of thingamajigs.
-snip-

Recently clamp-on brake casing stops have appeared. That
used to violate generally accepted practice, as the forces
on a brake wire are many times greater than a gear wire.

OTOH I suppose you always have the front brake so it
probably isn't critical.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Andy Muzi wrote:

Recently clamp-on brake casing stops have appeared. That used to
violate generally accepted practice, as the forces on a brake wire are
many times greater than a gear wire.

Don't forget that cable tension with "V brakes" is halved, as the cable
travel is doubled. Thus, it's much less of a problem than might appear.

I've used Sturmey-Archer fulcra for brakes, but only with the old metal
sleeves. The plastic version doesn't hold up to braking.

Sheldon "Breaking The Rules Of Braking" Brown
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