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Rethinking getting Surly Long Haul Trucker frame?



 
 
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  #51  
Old January 26th 13, 12:31 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 5,270
Default Centerstand? (was: Rethinking getting Surly Long Haul Trucker frame?)

On Friday, January 25, 2013 2:01:03 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, November 28, 2011 1:32:42 PM UTC-6, Chalo wrote:

T∅m Sherm∀n wrote: Wonder why touring bicycles do not come equipped with centerstands? Because there are more people likely to be turned off by the added cost, weight, or mere presence of a stand than there are who consider it to be a worthy feature? This is America, T∅m. Automatic transmissions, "warm white" (non- white) CFLs, and department store HAUTL* bikes prevail in the marketplace, regardless of virtue or lack thereof. Many of us are able to develop, for lack of a better word, "refined" tastes without any corresponding improvement in overall judgment. Thus we have bike enthusiasts who reflexively avoid useful items like kickstands, fenders, reflectors and spoke protectors that could save them a passel of hassle. Chalo * Hideous Abomination Unto The Lord. Acronym to be used freely with or without attribution.




I don't recall kickstands working too well. The bike tends to tip over. I make sure I lean the bike against a solid wall so it cannot tip over. Or just lay it on the ground so it can't fallover. Much better to be sure than take the risk of a bike falling over with a kickstand. And for touring with loaded panniers? Kickstands definitely do not work for that. Might as well get of your bike and intentionally throw it on the ground as hard as you can. Same effect as using a kickstand.


Sorry but I have to disagree with you. Me friend and I had 2 kickstands on the mountain bike I used for logging road touring om trips of two weeks where everything was carried on the bike. One kickstand was mounted aft of the seat tube between te chainstays and the other was a chainstay/seatstay mounted one. We never had any problems with either bike falling over when it was resting on the kickstands. Here's an image of one of the loaded bikesonly three days into a two week trip.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7383250...in/photostream

Cheers
Ads
  #52  
Old January 26th 13, 01:47 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Dan O
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Posts: 6,098
Default Rethinking getting Surly Long Haul Trucker frame?

On Jan 25, 8:17 am, davethedave wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 23:57:02 -0800, Dan O wrote:

snip

Ride Bike!


SNIP!


Sorry for the ~zero-nutrient post. Was very tired, etc., but felt
compelled to say *something* since I ride an LHT, and that was my most
concise response to a rant based on not getting the valued customer
treatment from a commodity product line.
  #53  
Old January 26th 13, 01:57 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
J.B.Slocomb
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Posts: 73
Default Centerstand? (was: Rethinking getting Surly Long Haul Trucker frame?)

On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 11:01:03 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Monday, November 28, 2011 1:32:42 PM UTC-6, Chalo wrote:
T?m Sherm?n wrote: Wonder why touring bicycles do not come equipped with centerstands? Because

there are more people likely to be turned off by the added cost, weight, or mere presence of a stand than there are who consider it to be a worthy feature? This is America, T?m. Automatic transmissions, "warm white" (non- white) CFLs, and department store HAUTL* bikes prevail in the marketplace, regardless of virtue or lack thereof. Many of us are able to develop, for lack of a better word, "refined" tastes without any corresponding improvement in overall judgment. Thus we have bike enthusiasts who reflexively avoid useful items like kickstands, fenders, reflectors and spoke protectors that could save them a passel of hassle. Chalo * Hideous Abomination Unto The Lord. Acronym to be used freely with or without attribution.

I don't recall kickstands working too well. The bike tends to tip over. I make sure I lean the bike against a
solid wall so it cannot tip over. Or just lay it on the ground so it can't fallover. Much better to be sure than take the risk of a bike falling over with a kickstand. And for touring with loaded panniers? Kickstands definitely do not work for that. Might as well get of your bike and intentionally throw it on the ground as hard as you can. Same effect as using a kickstand.


Strange that. Given that just about every other two wheel
transportation device comes with a kick stand fitted.

Perhaps if you had a bike with a proper kick stand mounting plate on
the chain stays just behind the bottom bracket where it both acts as a
chain stay bridge and as a kick stand attaching point it would be more
effective.

--
Cheers,

John B.
  #54  
Old January 26th 13, 02:12 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Dan O
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Posts: 6,098
Default Centerstand? (was: Rethinking getting Surly Long Haul Trucker frame?)

On Jan 25, 4:57 pm, J.B.Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 11:01:03 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:
On Monday, November 28, 2011 1:32:42 PM UTC-6, Chalo wrote:
T?m Sherm?n wrote: Wonder why touring bicycles do not come equipped with centerstands? Because

there are more people likely to be turned off by the added cost, weight, or mere presence of a stand than there are who consider it to be a worthy feature? This is America, T?m. Automatic transmissions, "warm white" (non- white) CFLs, and department store HAUTL* bikes prevail in the marketplace, regardless of virtue or lack thereof. Many of us are able to develop, for lack of a better word, "refined" tastes without any corresponding improvement in overall judgment. Thus we have bike enthusiasts who reflexively avoid useful items like kickstands, fenders, reflectors and spoke protectors that could save them a passel of hassle. Chalo * Hideous Abomination Unto The Lord. Acronym to be used freely with or without attribution.


I don't recall kickstands working too well. The bike tends to tip over. I make sure I lean the bike against a
solid wall so it cannot tip over. Or just lay it on the ground so it can't fallover. Much better to be sure than take the risk of a bike falling over with a kickstand. And for touring with loaded panniers? Kickstands definitely do not work for that. Might as well get of your bike and intentionally throw it on the ground as hard as you can. Same effect as using a kickstand.


Strange that. Given that just about every other two wheel
transportation device comes with a kick stand fitted.

Perhaps if you had a bike with a proper kick stand mounting plate on
the chain stays just behind the bottom bracket where it both acts as a
chain stay bridge and as a kick stand attaching point it would be more
effective.


I don't have any kickstand on any of my current bikes (including
LHT). I have used a lot of different kickstands on a lot of different
bikes. They are certainly a convenience when it comes to parking the
bike - at least on flat, paved surfaces.

But if you park on other than flat, paved surfaces, there can be
issues - including as alluded to above, *thinking* the bike is
securely "stood", then having it topple.

I have also had problems with kickstands interfering and even
*injuring* me while riding the bike.

None of this is intended to discount anyone's valuation of a kickstand
and more power to them. For myself, the bike is mostly for riding,
parking is only *very* incidental, a kickstand is *only* good for
parking, and can lead to problems in both riding *and* parking (and
servicing, and... )
  #55  
Old January 26th 13, 02:14 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 2,041
Default Centerstand? (was: Rethinking getting Surly Long Haul Trucker frame?)

On Friday, January 25, 2013 6:57:00 PM UTC-6, J. B. Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 11:01:03 -0800 (PST), " wrote: On Monday, November 28, 2011 1:32:42 PM UTC-6, Chalo wrote: T?m Sherm?n wrote: Wonder why touring bicycles do not come equipped with centerstands? Because there are more people likely to be turned off by the added cost, weight, or mere presence of a stand than there are who consider it to be a worthy feature? This is America, T?m. Automatic transmissions, "warm white" (non- white) CFLs, and department store HAUTL* bikes prevail in the marketplace, regardless of virtue or lack thereof. Many of us are able to develop, for lack of a better word, "refined" tastes without any corresponding improvement in overall judgment. Thus we have bike enthusiasts who reflexively avoid useful items like kickstands, fenders, reflectors and spoke protectors that could save them a passel of hassle. Chalo * Hideous Abomination Unto The Lord. Acronym to be used freely with or without attribution. I don't recall kickstands working too well. The bike tends to tip over. I make sure I lean the bike against a solid wall so it cannot tip over. Or just lay it on the ground so it can't fallover. Much better to be sure than take the risk of a bike falling over with a kickstand. And for touring with loaded panniers? Kickstands definitely do not work for that. Might as well get of your bike and intentionally throw it on the ground as hard as you can. Same effect as using a kickstand



Strange that. Given that just about every other two wheel transportation device comes with a kick stand fitted


Lets look at this very foolish statement you made. Lets take motorcycles as an example. The tires are about 4 inches wide and much less pressure than bicycle tires. So you have many inches of tread touching the ground at both wheels. Compared to a bicycle which has about 1 square inch of tread touching the ground at both wheels. Lets look at the kickstand. A bicycle kickstand comes to a point about 1 cm square. A motorcycle kickstand is about 4 inches long and 1+ inch wide. So the amount of kickstand touching the ground is many times more with the motorcycle. Now lets look at the front wheel systems. A motorcycle can only turn about 180 degrees in total. You cannot spin a motorcycle wheel completely around. Bicycle front wheels can go about 180 degrees in both directions until the bars hit the top tube.. Take all of the above and it is obvious a kickstand can work with a motorcycle. But not with a bicycle.





Perhaps if you had a bike with a proper kick stand mounting plate on the chain stays just behind the bottom bracket where it both acts as a chain stay bridge and as a kick stand attaching point it would be more effective. -- Cheers, John B.

  #56  
Old January 26th 13, 03:23 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 5,270
Default Centerstand? (was: Rethinking getting Surly Long Haul Trucker frame?)

On Friday, January 25, 2013 8:14:08 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Friday, January 25, 2013 6:57:00 PM UTC-6, J. B. Slocomb wrote:

On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 11:01:03 -0800 (PST), " wrote: On Monday, November 28, 2011 1:32:42 PM UTC-6, Chalo wrote: T?m Sherm?n wrote: Wonder why touring bicycles do not come equipped with centerstands? Because there are more people likely to be turned off by the added cost, weight, or mere presence of a stand than there are who consider it to be a worthy feature? This is America, T?m. Automatic transmissions, "warm white" (non- white) CFLs, and department store HAUTL* bikes prevail in the marketplace, regardless of virtue or lack thereof. Many of us are able to develop, for lack of a better word, "refined" tastes without any corresponding improvement in overall judgment. Thus we have bike enthusiasts who reflexively avoid useful items like kickstands, fenders, reflectors and spoke protectors that could save them a passel of hassle. Chalo * Hideous Abomination Unto The Lord. Acronym to be used freely with or without attribution. I don't recall kickstands working too well. The bike tends to tip over. I make sure I lean the bike against a solid wall so it cannot tip over. Or just lay it on the ground so it can't fallover. Much better to be sure than take the risk of a bike falling over with a kickstand. And for touring with loaded panniers? Kickstands definitely do not work for that. Might as well get of your bike and intentionally throw it on the ground as hard as you can. Same effect as using a kickstand






Strange that. Given that just about every other two wheel transportation device comes with a kick stand fitted





Lets look at this very foolish statement you made. Lets take motorcycles as an example. The tires are about 4 inches wide and much less pressure than bicycle tires. So you have many inches of tread touching the ground at both wheels. Compared to a bicycle which has about 1 square inch of tread touching the ground at both wheels. Lets look at the kickstand. A bicycle kickstand comes to a point about 1 cm square. A motorcycle kickstand is about 4 inches long and 1+ inch wide. So the amount of kickstand touching the ground is many times more with the motorcycle. Now lets look at the front wheel systems. A motorcycle can only turn about 180 degrees in total. You cannot spin a motorcycle wheel completely around. Bicycle front wheels can go about 180 degrees in both directions until the bars hit the top tube. Take all of the above and it is obvious a kickstand can work with a motorcycle. But not with a bicycle.











Perhaps if you had a bike with a proper kick stand mounting plate on the chain stays just behind the bottom bracket where it both acts as a chain stay bridge and as a kick stand attaching point it would be more effective. -- Cheers, John B.


But m y kickstands DO WORK WELL. On soft ground including sand it's siple to slip a jar lid or a small square of wood under the kickstand leg where it meets the ground. I've used kickstands on my tours many times where all of the gear and water totalled 60+ poundes and NEVER had my bicycle topple over.

Cheers
  #57  
Old January 26th 13, 03:38 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
datakoll
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Posts: 7,793
Default Centerstand? (was: Rethinking getting Surly Long Haul Trucker frame?)

extra weight required for a panniered kickstand is irrevocably stupid design. Bike on ground bike on round bike on....avoid that deal right off.

here, sigle arm kickstands. YAAAAAACH

no way Ima gonna lean muh YZ on a flipping kickstand. no way.

seat posts-2

cranks-2

rear Suntour deray-2

4 sets $15 bear trap pedals

3 rear hubs....one smashed after crit on Lemond

2 rear racks

one saddle runner

one day i wuz riding back thru town into a main overpass the only then and LO

squad cars, fire, ambu....4-5 cars were stacked up on each other like mating at the traffic light rear cars burned black like it was a movie set which maybe it was n the brake cables snapped.
  #58  
Old January 26th 13, 03:40 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
datakoll
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Posts: 7,793
Default Centerstand? (was: Rethinking getting Surly Long Haul Trucker frame?)

On Friday, January 25, 2013 9:38:40 PM UTC-5, datakoll wrote:
extra weight required for a panniered kickstand is irrevocably stupid design. Bike on ground bike on round bike on....avoid that deal right off.



here, sigle arm kickstands. YAAAAAACH



no way Ima gonna lean muh YZ on a flipping kickstand. no way.



seat posts-2



cranks-2



rear Suntour deray-2



4 sets $15 bear trap pedals



3 rear hubs....one smashed after crit on Lemond



2 rear racks



one saddle runner



one day i wuz riding back thru town into a main overpass the only then and LO



squad cars, fire, ambu....4-5 cars were stacked up on each other like mating at the traffic light rear cars burned black like it was a movie set which maybe it was n the brake cables snapped.


.....
https://www.google.com/search?num=10....1.aZ7mGiGUBcU

endless
  #59  
Old January 26th 13, 04:52 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 13,447
Default Centerstand?

On 1/25/2013 8:23 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, January 25, 2013 8:14:08 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Friday, January 25, 2013 6:57:00 PM UTC-6, J. B. Slocomb wrote:

On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 11:01:03 -0800 (PST), " wrote: On Monday, November 28, 2011 1:32:42 PM UTC-6, Chalo wrote: T?m Sherm?n wrote: Wonder why touring bicycles do not come equipped with centerstands? Because there are more people likely to be turned off by the added cost, weight, or mere presence of a stand than there are who consider it to be a worthy feature? This is America, T?m. Automatic transmissions, "warm white" (non- white) CFLs, and department store HAUTL* bikes prevail in the marketplace, regardless of virtue or lack thereof. Many of us are able to develop, for lack of a better word, "refined" tastes without any corresponding improvement in overall judgment. Thus we have bike enthusiasts who reflexively avoid useful items like kickstands, fenders, reflectors and spoke protectors that could save them a passel of hassle. Chalo * Hideous Abomination Unto The Lord. Acronym to be used freely with or without attribu

tion. I don't recall kickstands working too well. The bike tends to tip over. I make sure I lean the bike against a solid wall so it cannot tip over. Or just lay it on the ground so it can't fallover. Much better to be sure than take the risk of a bike falling over with a kickstand. And for touring with loaded panniers? Kickstands definitely do not work for that. Might as well get of your bike and intentionally throw it on the ground as hard as you can. Same effect as using a kickstand





Strange that. Given that just about every other two wheel transportation device comes with a kick stand fitted





Lets look at this very foolish statement you made. Lets take motorcycles as an example. The tires are about 4 inches wide and much less pressure than bicycle tires. So you have many inches of tread touching the ground at both wheels. Compared to a bicycle which has about 1 square inch of tread touching the ground at both wheels. Lets look at the kickstand. A bicycle kickstand comes to a point about 1 cm square. A motorcycle kickstand is about 4 inches long and 1+ inch wide. So the amount of kickstand touching the ground is many times more with the motorcycle. Now lets look at the front wheel systems. A motorcycle can only turn about 180 degrees in total. You cannot spin a motorcycle wheel completely around. Bicycle front wheels can go about 180 degrees in both directions until the bars hit the top tube. Take all of the above and it is obvious a kickstand can work with a motorcycle. But not with a bicycle.











Perhaps if you had a bike with a proper kick stand mounting plate on the chain stays just behind the bottom bracket where it both acts as a chain stay bridge and as a kick stand attaching point it would be more effective. -- Cheers, John B.


But m y kickstands DO WORK WELL. On soft ground including sand it's siple to slip a jar lid or a small square of wood under the kickstand leg where it meets the ground. I've used kickstands on my tours many times where all of the gear and water totalled 60+ poundes and NEVER had my bicycle topple over.

Cheers


No harm in that; use them if you like them
My bicycles do not have kickstands and they don't fall over
except when I am riding them.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #60  
Old January 26th 13, 05:19 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Dan O
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Posts: 6,098
Default Centerstand?

On Jan 25, 7:52 pm, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/25/2013 8:23 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Friday, January 25, 2013 8:14:08 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Friday, January 25, 2013 6:57:00 PM UTC-6, J. B. Slocomb wrote:


On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 11:01:03 -0800 (PST), " wrote: On Monday, November 28, 2011 1:32:42 PM UTC-6, Chalo wrote: T?m Sherm?n wrote: Wonder why touring bicycles do not come equipped with centerstands? Because there are more people likely to be turned off by the added cost, weight, or mere presence of a stand than there are who consider it to be a worthy feature? This is America, T?m. Automatic transmissions, "warm white" (non- white) CFLs, and department store HAUTL* bikes prevail in the marketplace, regardless of virtue or lack thereof. Many of us are able to develop, for lack of a better word, "refined" tastes without any corresponding improvement in overall judgment. Thus we have bike enthusiasts who reflexively avoid useful items like kickstands, fenders, reflectors and spoke protectors that could save them a passel of hassle. Chalo * Hideous Abomination Unto The Lord. Acronym to be used freely with or without attribu


tion. I don't recall kickstands working too well. The bike tends to tip over. I make sure I lean the bike against a solid wall so it cannot tip over. Or just lay it on the ground so it can't fallover. Much better to be sure than take the risk of a bike falling over with a kickstand. And for touring with loaded panniers? Kickstands definitely do not work for that. Might as well get of your bike and intentionally throw it on the ground as hard as you can. Same effect as using a kickstand





Strange that. Given that just about every other two wheel transportation device comes with a kick stand fitted


Lets look at this very foolish statement you made. Lets take motorcycles as an example. The tires are about 4 inches wide and much less pressure than bicycle tires. So you have many inches of tread touching the ground at both wheels. Compared to a bicycle which has about 1 square inch of tread touching the ground at both wheels. Lets look at the kickstand. A bicycle kickstand comes to a point about 1 cm square. A motorcycle kickstand is about 4 inches long and 1+ inch wide. So the amount of kickstand touching the ground is many times more with the motorcycle. Now lets look at the front wheel systems. A motorcycle can only turn about 180 degrees in total. You cannot spin a motorcycle wheel completely around. Bicycle front wheels can go about 180 degrees in both directions until the bars hit the top tube. Take all of the above and it is obvious a kickstand can work with a motorcycle. But not with a bicycle.


Perhaps if you had a bike with a proper kick stand mounting plate on the chain stays just behind the bottom bracket where it both acts as a chain stay bridge and as a kick stand attaching point it would be more effective.. -- Cheers, John B.


But m y kickstands DO WORK WELL. On soft ground including sand it's siple to slip a jar lid or a small square of wood under the kickstand leg where it meets the ground. I've used kickstands on my tours many times where all of the gear and water totalled 60+ poundes and NEVER had my bicycle topple over.


Cheers


No harm in that; use them if you like them
My bicycles do not have kickstands and they don't fall over
except when I am riding them.


Two really good smiles in one night of reading rbt :-)

 




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