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AG: Aunt Granny's Advice, or How to become an elderly cyclist:



 
 
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  #191  
Old March 29th 15, 05:37 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,271
Default AG: Country Roads

On 3/29/2015 8:54 AM, smharding wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 08/03/2015 03:31, Joy Beeson wrote:


On a lonely country road, ride far enough to the left -- this being a
multinational forum, make that "close enough to the center" -- that
you can make a dramatic and visible move toward the edge of the road.

When you hear a car coming, watch it in your mirror until you are
quite sure the driver can see you turn your head as if looking back
before you move toward the edge of the road.

On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 21:47:37 +0000, Andy Morris [email protected]
wrote:

Why do you feel you are responsible for the car behind? If they

want to
overtake they can change lane, if its not safe for them to do that do
you really want to encourage them to squeeze by?


Then, On 3/26/2015 8:41 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:

for one thing, the car behind you is bigger, stronger, faster and
harder then you are. The proverbial 600 lb. gorilla, in other words.

It is usually suggested that he gets to do whatever he wants to while
you the smaller, weaker, slower and softer creature stay out of the
gorilla's way.

It is often argued that if the gorilla stomps you into the ground like
a grease spot that the LAW will punish him. Which would seem to be of
little interest to you as you'll be dead.


Well, having tried pretty much every reasonable strategy, I've formed
these opinions:

First, if the lane is too narrow for safe passing within the lane, I
stay pretty much lane centered. As Andy said, I really don't want to
encourage them to pass until they can move over.

But if the lane is wider, and especially if it's of marginal width -
i.e., I might share it with a Geo Metro, but might feel uncomfortable
with a Cadillac Escalade - I find it's helpful to ride lane centered
long enough that the motorists visibly slow. Then I move right, as
Joy said. Almost all motorists seem to interpret that as "Oh, what a
nice guy." And the result is almost always a slow, careful pass.

And speaking of Escalades: It's _finally_ half-decent riding weather
here. Yesterday, riding to the hardware store on the normally busy 5
lane road (12 foot lanes, IIRC), I happened to be almost alone...
except for a white Escalade that came up behind me. Despite the open
left lane, he blared his horn in an unfriendly manner.

I stayed where I was (lane center) and waved a couple times, something
like either "Hello" or "Of course I know you're there." Then I gave
what I hope was an obviously displeased motion saying "So pass me,
dammit!" Which he did. No further trouble. And no conceding
anything on my part.

It's like this every spring. The Escalade drivers have had a whole
winter to glory in their supposed superiority and privilege. It takes
a few weeks for them to remember that "Oh yeah, those guys have a
legal right to the road, too."

Cowering at the right just slows their learning process.


While I generally agree with what has been said about being more assertive
in the lane to avoid those close shaves many motorists seem willing to
inflict
upon bicyclists, I've always gotten some amusement out of the vilification
of the "guy in the Escalade" when describing bicyclist-motorist negative
interactions.

It reminds me of some movie plots where bad guys doing evil things are
given the final negative character flaw of using a racist remark, making
the
audience feel that guy really deserves to be taken out.

I live in a heavy college age driver environment and I quite frankly worry
more about the five college area kid in a small Honda or Toyota pulling
that
stuff on bicyclists than people driving those oh so awful big SUVs.


It could be interesting to start an online project, where volunteers
would catalog the vehicle models used by impolite motorists. Maybe we
could learn something. Online sociology!

But the incident I described above really was an Escalade. Pearl white,
IIRC.

--
- Frank Krygowski
Ads
  #192  
Old March 30th 15, 12:36 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 606
Default AG: Country Roads

On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 08:54:17 -0400, smharding
wrote:

Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 08/03/2015 03:31, Joy Beeson wrote:


On a lonely country road, ride far enough to the left -- this being a
multinational forum, make that "close enough to the center" -- that
you can make a dramatic and visible move toward the edge of the road.

When you hear a car coming, watch it in your mirror until you are
quite sure the driver can see you turn your head as if looking back
before you move toward the edge of the road.

On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 21:47:37 +0000, Andy Morris [email protected]
wrote:

Why do you feel you are responsible for the car behind? If they want to
overtake they can change lane, if its not safe for them to do that do
you really want to encourage them to squeeze by?


Then, On 3/26/2015 8:41 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:

for one thing, the car behind you is bigger, stronger, faster and
harder then you are. The proverbial 600 lb. gorilla, in other words.

It is usually suggested that he gets to do whatever he wants to while
you the smaller, weaker, slower and softer creature stay out of the
gorilla's way.

It is often argued that if the gorilla stomps you into the ground like
a grease spot that the LAW will punish him. Which would seem to be of
little interest to you as you'll be dead.


Well, having tried pretty much every reasonable strategy, I've formed
these opinions:

First, if the lane is too narrow for safe passing within the lane, I
stay pretty much lane centered. As Andy said, I really don't want to
encourage them to pass until they can move over.

But if the lane is wider, and especially if it's of marginal width -
i.e., I might share it with a Geo Metro, but might feel uncomfortable
with a Cadillac Escalade - I find it's helpful to ride lane centered
long enough that the motorists visibly slow. Then I move right, as Joy
said. Almost all motorists seem to interpret that as "Oh, what a nice
guy." And the result is almost always a slow, careful pass.

And speaking of Escalades: It's _finally_ half-decent riding weather
here. Yesterday, riding to the hardware store on the normally busy 5
lane road (12 foot lanes, IIRC), I happened to be almost alone... except
for a white Escalade that came up behind me. Despite the open left
lane, he blared his horn in an unfriendly manner.

I stayed where I was (lane center) and waved a couple times, something
like either "Hello" or "Of course I know you're there." Then I gave
what I hope was an obviously displeased motion saying "So pass me,
dammit!" Which he did. No further trouble. And no conceding anything
on my part.

It's like this every spring. The Escalade drivers have had a whole
winter to glory in their supposed superiority and privilege. It takes a
few weeks for them to remember that "Oh yeah, those guys have a legal
right to the road, too."

Cowering at the right just slows their learning process.


While I generally agree with what has been said about being more assertive
in the lane to avoid those close shaves many motorists seem willing to inflict
upon bicyclists, I've always gotten some amusement out of the vilification
of the "guy in the Escalade" when describing bicyclist-motorist negative
interactions.

It reminds me of some movie plots where bad guys doing evil things are
given the final negative character flaw of using a racist remark, making the
audience feel that guy really deserves to be taken out.

I live in a heavy college age driver environment and I quite frankly worry
more about the five college area kid in a small Honda or Toyota pulling that
stuff on bicyclists than people driving those oh so awful big SUVs.


SMH


I believe that the "Guy in the Escalade" is only at fault if he is
wearing a black hat :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.
  #193  
Old March 30th 15, 12:54 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 606
Default AG: Country Roads

On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 12:37:48 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/29/2015 8:54 AM, smharding wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 08/03/2015 03:31, Joy Beeson wrote:


On a lonely country road, ride far enough to the left -- this being a
multinational forum, make that "close enough to the center" -- that
you can make a dramatic and visible move toward the edge of the road.

When you hear a car coming, watch it in your mirror until you are
quite sure the driver can see you turn your head as if looking back
before you move toward the edge of the road.

On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 21:47:37 +0000, Andy Morris [email protected]
wrote:

Why do you feel you are responsible for the car behind? If they
want to
overtake they can change lane, if its not safe for them to do that do
you really want to encourage them to squeeze by?

Then, On 3/26/2015 8:41 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:

for one thing, the car behind you is bigger, stronger, faster and
harder then you are. The proverbial 600 lb. gorilla, in other words.

It is usually suggested that he gets to do whatever he wants to while
you the smaller, weaker, slower and softer creature stay out of the
gorilla's way.

It is often argued that if the gorilla stomps you into the ground like
a grease spot that the LAW will punish him. Which would seem to be of
little interest to you as you'll be dead.

Well, having tried pretty much every reasonable strategy, I've formed
these opinions:

First, if the lane is too narrow for safe passing within the lane, I
stay pretty much lane centered. As Andy said, I really don't want to
encourage them to pass until they can move over.

But if the lane is wider, and especially if it's of marginal width -
i.e., I might share it with a Geo Metro, but might feel uncomfortable
with a Cadillac Escalade - I find it's helpful to ride lane centered
long enough that the motorists visibly slow. Then I move right, as
Joy said. Almost all motorists seem to interpret that as "Oh, what a
nice guy." And the result is almost always a slow, careful pass.

And speaking of Escalades: It's _finally_ half-decent riding weather
here. Yesterday, riding to the hardware store on the normally busy 5
lane road (12 foot lanes, IIRC), I happened to be almost alone...
except for a white Escalade that came up behind me. Despite the open
left lane, he blared his horn in an unfriendly manner.

I stayed where I was (lane center) and waved a couple times, something
like either "Hello" or "Of course I know you're there." Then I gave
what I hope was an obviously displeased motion saying "So pass me,
dammit!" Which he did. No further trouble. And no conceding
anything on my part.

It's like this every spring. The Escalade drivers have had a whole
winter to glory in their supposed superiority and privilege. It takes
a few weeks for them to remember that "Oh yeah, those guys have a
legal right to the road, too."

Cowering at the right just slows their learning process.


While I generally agree with what has been said about being more assertive
in the lane to avoid those close shaves many motorists seem willing to
inflict
upon bicyclists, I've always gotten some amusement out of the vilification
of the "guy in the Escalade" when describing bicyclist-motorist negative
interactions.

It reminds me of some movie plots where bad guys doing evil things are
given the final negative character flaw of using a racist remark, making
the
audience feel that guy really deserves to be taken out.

I live in a heavy college age driver environment and I quite frankly worry
more about the five college area kid in a small Honda or Toyota pulling
that
stuff on bicyclists than people driving those oh so awful big SUVs.


It could be interesting to start an online project, where volunteers
would catalog the vehicle models used by impolite motorists. Maybe we
could learn something. Online sociology!

But the incident I described above really was an Escalade. Pearl white,
IIRC.


Although it appears to be the custom for cyclists to always blame "the
other guy", particularly when he/she is in a motor vehicle, the
California Highway Patrol study demonstrated that in more than half of
the motor vehicle - bicycle accidents the cyclist was in violation of
traffic regulations, and both the New York and London studies
mentioned cyclists injured while in violation of the law.

Unless one is to assume that these three studies were all erroneous it
may be useful to make a study of who actually is responsible for
cyclists being injured as if the majority of the injuries/deaths are
associated with the cyclists breaking the law a more forceful
enforcement of traffic laws relative to cyclists malfeasance might
well be the real answer.
--
Cheers,

John B.
  #194  
Old March 30th 15, 01:18 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 606
Default AG: The best fluid for hydration

On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 12:34:47 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/28/2015 11:27 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:

There's a lot of discussion on what to drink, what temperature it
should be, and so forth -- but the important question is "can you get
it inside the patient?". The best hydrating fluid is something that
you like and will drink lots of.


I've found that adding a little salt to my water makes it much easier to
"get inside the patient," especially on long rides in hot weather. And
for me, salt substitute works even better.

The little bottle I've had for years is "Cardia Salt" - part sodium
chloride, part potassium chloride, part magnesium sulfate.


I believe that adding chemicals to a hydration drink to improve the
absorption was the basis for "Gator Aid" and both salt and sugar are
added to water to make the "Oral Rehydration Solution" used to treat
cholera and typhoid both of which cause severe dehydration.

--
Cheers,

John B.
  #195  
Old March 30th 15, 03:10 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Joy Beeson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,148
Default AG: The best fluid for hydration

On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 12:34:47 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

I've found that adding a little salt to my water makes it much easier to
"get inside the patient," especially on long rides in hot weather. And
for me, salt substitute works even better.

The little bottle I've had for years is "Cardia Salt" - part sodium
chloride, part potassium chloride, part magnesium sulfate.


I like a little fruit juice in my water -- but I *must* have plain
water in the other bottle.

A usually put a pretty strong dose of fruit juice in my tea, to supply
sugar as well as caffeine.

I drink more fluid when I ride through nap time, because I want to get
my caffeine inside before I get stupid.


--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://joybeeson.home.comcast.net/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.



  #196  
Old March 30th 15, 04:38 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Joy Beeson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,148
Default AG: Country Roads

On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 06:54:14 +0700, John B. Slocomb
wrote:

Unless one is to assume that these three studies were all erroneous it
may be useful to make a study of who actually is responsible for
cyclists being injured as if the majority of the injuries/deaths are
associated with the cyclists breaking the law a more forceful
enforcement of traffic laws relative to cyclists malfeasance might
well be the real answer.


Telling bike riders what the rules are should be the first step.

I have spoken to people who were taught in school that one should ride
in the oncoming lane "so you can see them coming", and others were
taught that when two riders meet or are overtaken by a car, one should
dash across the street in front of the car and force it to pass
between them. This somehow "makes more room".

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net


  #197  
Old March 30th 15, 04:58 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,271
Default AG: Country Roads

On 3/29/2015 7:54 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 12:37:48 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/29/2015 8:54 AM, smharding wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 08/03/2015 03:31, Joy Beeson wrote:


On a lonely country road, ride far enough to the left -- this being a
multinational forum, make that "close enough to the center" -- that
you can make a dramatic and visible move toward the edge of the road.

When you hear a car coming, watch it in your mirror until you are
quite sure the driver can see you turn your head as if looking back
before you move toward the edge of the road.

On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 21:47:37 +0000, Andy Morris [email protected]
wrote:

Why do you feel you are responsible for the car behind? If they
want to
overtake they can change lane, if its not safe for them to do that do
you really want to encourage them to squeeze by?

Then, On 3/26/2015 8:41 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:

for one thing, the car behind you is bigger, stronger, faster and
harder then you are. The proverbial 600 lb. gorilla, in other words.

It is usually suggested that he gets to do whatever he wants to while
you the smaller, weaker, slower and softer creature stay out of the
gorilla's way.

It is often argued that if the gorilla stomps you into the ground like
a grease spot that the LAW will punish him. Which would seem to be of
little interest to you as you'll be dead.

Well, having tried pretty much every reasonable strategy, I've formed
these opinions:

First, if the lane is too narrow for safe passing within the lane, I
stay pretty much lane centered. As Andy said, I really don't want to
encourage them to pass until they can move over.

But if the lane is wider, and especially if it's of marginal width -
i.e., I might share it with a Geo Metro, but might feel uncomfortable
with a Cadillac Escalade - I find it's helpful to ride lane centered
long enough that the motorists visibly slow. Then I move right, as
Joy said. Almost all motorists seem to interpret that as "Oh, what a
nice guy." And the result is almost always a slow, careful pass.

And speaking of Escalades: It's _finally_ half-decent riding weather
here. Yesterday, riding to the hardware store on the normally busy 5
lane road (12 foot lanes, IIRC), I happened to be almost alone...
except for a white Escalade that came up behind me. Despite the open
left lane, he blared his horn in an unfriendly manner.

I stayed where I was (lane center) and waved a couple times, something
like either "Hello" or "Of course I know you're there." Then I gave
what I hope was an obviously displeased motion saying "So pass me,
dammit!" Which he did. No further trouble. And no conceding
anything on my part.

It's like this every spring. The Escalade drivers have had a whole
winter to glory in their supposed superiority and privilege. It takes
a few weeks for them to remember that "Oh yeah, those guys have a
legal right to the road, too."

Cowering at the right just slows their learning process.

While I generally agree with what has been said about being more assertive
in the lane to avoid those close shaves many motorists seem willing to
inflict
upon bicyclists, I've always gotten some amusement out of the vilification
of the "guy in the Escalade" when describing bicyclist-motorist negative
interactions.

It reminds me of some movie plots where bad guys doing evil things are
given the final negative character flaw of using a racist remark, making
the
audience feel that guy really deserves to be taken out.

I live in a heavy college age driver environment and I quite frankly worry
more about the five college area kid in a small Honda or Toyota pulling
that
stuff on bicyclists than people driving those oh so awful big SUVs.


It could be interesting to start an online project, where volunteers
would catalog the vehicle models used by impolite motorists. Maybe we
could learn something. Online sociology!

But the incident I described above really was an Escalade. Pearl white,
IIRC.


Although it appears to be the custom for cyclists to always blame "the
other guy", particularly when he/she is in a motor vehicle, the
California Highway Patrol study demonstrated that in more than half of
the motor vehicle - bicycle accidents the cyclist was in violation of
traffic regulations, and both the New York and London studies
mentioned cyclists injured while in violation of the law.

Unless one is to assume that these three studies were all erroneous it
may be useful to make a study of who actually is responsible for
cyclists being injured as if the majority of the injuries/deaths are
associated with the cyclists breaking the law a more forceful
enforcement of traffic laws relative to cyclists malfeasance might
well be the real answer.


Oh, I'm familiar with the data you mention. I was just talking about
the motorists who come up and blare the horn out of pure rudeness. IME,
they're extremely unlikely to cause a crash. They just want to show
dominance, and inform us that in their screwball opinion, we have no
right to the road.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #198  
Old March 30th 15, 03:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Joy Beeson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,148
Default AG: Country Roads

On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 23:58:06 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Oh, I'm familiar with the data you mention. I was just talking about
the motorists who come up and blare the horn out of pure rudeness. IME,
they're extremely unlikely to cause a crash. They just want to show
dominance, and inform us that in their screwball opinion, we have no
right to the road.


Or, insulated in layers of sound-proofing, they are unaware that you
heard them coming when they were a mile away. That's the main purpose
of my "I've seen you!" pantomime.

I've actually heard people say "a polite toot on the horn".
Well, read it; my meatspace friends don't talk about traffic much.


--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://joybeeson.home.comcast.net/
http://n3f.home.comcast.net/ -- Writers' Exchange
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.



  #199  
Old March 31st 15, 11:15 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Andy Morris[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default AG: Country Roads

On 27/03/2015 11:00, John B. Slocomb wrote:
But what happens if he doesn't see you or just decides to run over
you? Country road, no traffic, pain in the arse, who's to know?


So you trust the driver to manage to judge a tight in lane pass, but not
to see you if you are directly in front of them?

Andy

  #200  
Old April 1st 15, 09:45 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 606
Default AG: Country Roads

On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 23:38:49 -0400, Joy Beeson
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 06:54:14 +0700, John B. Slocomb
wrote:

Unless one is to assume that these three studies were all erroneous it
may be useful to make a study of who actually is responsible for
cyclists being injured as if the majority of the injuries/deaths are
associated with the cyclists breaking the law a more forceful
enforcement of traffic laws relative to cyclists malfeasance might
well be the real answer.


Telling bike riders what the rules are should be the first step.

I have spoken to people who were taught in school that one should ride
in the oncoming lane "so you can see them coming", and others were
taught that when two riders meet or are overtaken by a car, one should
dash across the street in front of the car and force it to pass
between them. This somehow "makes more room".


Well, if one gives up the responsibility of educating their kids to
some other entity than one should not complain about the quality of
the education.

Should one?
--
Cheers,

John B.
 




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