No Winner--Fixing the Tour

On Aug 1, 8:13 am, Bill C wrote:
On Aug 1, 9:06 am, "B. Lafferty"
wrote:

"Bill C" wrote in message

roups.com...

Bunch snipped

On Aug 1, 7:14 am, "B. Lafferty"
In those systems, the state acts as a substitute for western commercialism.
Foteringham said that national teams were only part of a possible solution.
I think his point that national teams would make it more difficult (albeit,
not impossible) logisticaly to dope is a good one. Combine that with on the
line testing and other suggestions and you might have a decent start in a
new ofensive against doping. To simply reject what WF writes because it is
in the Guardian is beneath your reasoning abilty Bill.

I would argue that the resources available to a State to dope are
much more significant. Diplomatic bags are untoucheable. Generally
diplomatic staff are exempt from most legal issues. States have lots
of experience in conducting covert operations and the tools to do it
with. They have access to the latest drug research, and the
scientists. Lots of reasons that State doping should be more effective
IMO.
I don't know why, other than his disdain for capitalism/commercialism
he threw that idea in with the good suggestions he had.
He chose to introduce politcal philosophy and the suggestion is just
nonsense given the history of State doping in sports.



Once again we have a steaming pile of fertilizer being provided by
the Guardian.
Then again the Guardian probably had no problem with the doping done
for the glory of Socialism. Fits their world mission.

I thought China was a laizze fair capitalist country. :-)

They've finally figured out that they can still rule without threat
much more comfortably by a limited capitalist system. Russia is
moving pretty quickly back towards the Chinese model of both economy
and political control.



Dumbass -


Not quite.

Putin is going after the political control but leaving out the
capitalist part. Nationalizing all the oil companies and such.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
Putin is going after the political control but leaving out the
capitalist part. Nationalizing all the oil companies and such.

Come to think of it, there may be something to this national teams tour.
Just think of the fun we'd have if there was a Russian team, a Georgian
team, a Kazakh team and a Belarussian team. The team tactics could be
real fun involving polonium in the water bottles and RPG's in the top
tube. The peloton might even literally explode when the attacks occur.

On Aug 1, 3:18 pm, Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
On Aug 1, 8:13 am, Bill C wrote:





On Aug 1, 9:06 am, "B. Lafferty"
wrote:

"Bill C" wrote in message

roups.com...

Bunch snipped

On Aug 1, 7:14 am, "B. Lafferty"
In those systems, the state acts as a substitute for western commercialism.
Foteringham said that national teams were only part of a possible solution.
I think his point that national teams would make it more difficult (albeit,
not impossible) logisticaly to dope is a good one. Combine that with on the
line testing and other suggestions and you might have a decent start in a
new ofensive against doping. To simply reject what WF writes because it is
in the Guardian is beneath your reasoning abilty Bill.

I would argue that the resources available to a State to dope are
much more significant. Diplomatic bags are untoucheable. Generally
diplomatic staff are exempt from most legal issues. States have lots
of experience in conducting covert operations and the tools to do it
with. They have access to the latest drug research, and the
scientists. Lots of reasons that State doping should be more effective
IMO.
I don't know why, other than his disdain for capitalism/commercialism
he threw that idea in with the good suggestions he had.
He chose to introduce politcal philosophy and the suggestion is just
nonsense given the history of State doping in sports.

Once again we have a steaming pile of fertilizer being provided by
the Guardian.
Then again the Guardian probably had no problem with the doping done
for the glory of Socialism. Fits their world mission.

I thought China was a laizze fair capitalist country. :-)

They've finally figured out that they can still rule without threat
much more comfortably by a limited capitalist system. Russia is
moving pretty quickly back towards the Chinese model of both economy
and political control.

Dumbass -

Not quite.

Putin is going after the political control but leaving out the
capitalist part. Nationalizing all the oil companies and such.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

He's worked to consolidate the economy into the hands of his friends
and supporters. You are able to conduct capitalist business as long as
you support the vision of the State that Putin has. His actions
against numerous companies and businessmen have made that incredibly
clear.
It's like Chavez has said to the press "You can do it my way, keep
your mouth shut, and stay, or well drive you out." Same for businesses
in both places.
Bill C

On Aug 1, 3:32 pm, Bill C wrote:
On Aug 1, 3:18 pm, Kurgan Gringioni wrote:





On Aug 1, 8:13 am, Bill C wrote:

On Aug 1, 9:06 am, "B. Lafferty"
wrote:

"Bill C" wrote in message

roups.com...

Bunch snipped

On Aug 1, 7:14 am, "B. Lafferty"
In those systems, the state acts as a substitute for western commercialism.
Foteringham said that national teams were only part of a possible solution.
I think his point that national teams would make it more difficult (albeit,
not impossible) logisticaly to dope is a good one. Combine that with on the
line testing and other suggestions and you might have a decent start in a
new ofensive against doping. To simply reject what WF writes because it is
in the Guardian is beneath your reasoning abilty Bill.

I would argue that the resources available to a State to dope are
much more significant. Diplomatic bags are untoucheable. Generally
diplomatic staff are exempt from most legal issues. States have lots
of experience in conducting covert operations and the tools to do it
with. They have access to the latest drug research, and the
scientists. Lots of reasons that State doping should be more effective
IMO.
I don't know why, other than his disdain for capitalism/commercialism
he threw that idea in with the good suggestions he had.
He chose to introduce politcal philosophy and the suggestion is just
nonsense given the history of State doping in sports.

Once again we have a steaming pile of fertilizer being provided by
the Guardian.
Then again the Guardian probably had no problem with the doping done
for the glory of Socialism. Fits their world mission.

I thought China was a laizze fair capitalist country. :-)

They've finally figured out that they can still rule without threat
much more comfortably by a limited capitalist system. Russia is
moving pretty quickly back towards the Chinese model of both economy
and political control.

Dumbass -

Not quite.

Putin is going after the political control but leaving out the
capitalist part. Nationalizing all the oil companies and such.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

He's worked to consolidate the economy into the hands of his friends
and supporters. You are able to conduct capitalist business as long as
you support the vision of the State that Putin has. His actions
against numerous companies and businessmen have made that incredibly
clear.
It's like Chavez has said to the press "You can do it my way, keep
your mouth shut, and stay, or well drive you out." Same for businesses
in both places.
Bill C- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Just to add some documentation:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...801012_pf.html

http://www.busineKremlin Inc. Widening Control Over Industry
Critics Say Russian Government Is Using Takeovers to Do Its Political
Business

By Peter Finn
Washington Post Foreign Service
Sunday, November 19, 2006; A01

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...1158_mz037.htm
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...1071_mz054.htm
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/06/...ness/forum.php

Bill C

On Aug 1, 4:14 am, "B. Lafferty"
wrote:

bull**** snipped



Dumbass -


When will you realize that as long as drugs remain a part of our
culture they will also remain part of the subset of the culture that
is professional sport?

You're basically a 2007 rbr usenet version of Nancy Reagan in the
'80s. - Just Say No!

The War On Drugs didn't work then and it won't now.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Donald Munro wrote:

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
Putin is going after the political control but leaving out the
capitalist part. Nationalizing all the oil companies and such.

Come to think of it, there may be something to this national teams tour.
Just think of the fun we'd have if there was a Russian team, a Georgian
team, a Kazakh team and a Belarussian team. The team tactics could be
real fun involving polonium in the water bottles and RPG's in the top
tube. The peloton might even literally explode when the attacks occur.


What about a sectarian team tour? Sunnis, Shias, Catholics, Mormons,
Pentacostals, Sufis, Hindus, Bhuddists, Raelians, Scientologists,
Aetheists, Branch Davidians, Secular Nihilists, all vying to show their
beliefs lead them to be strongest, or that their god(s) were strongest on
that day. It makes sense because you know the Mormon team would be clean
and they would be the new "Millar line."

--
Bill Asher

His local golf club in Florence released a statement later Wednesday,
defending him and saying that he had informed authorities at the time
of the test that he had taken the drug for almost two years to treat a
prostate problem.

Golf has come under increased pressure from the World Anti-Doping
Agency to introduce random drug testing after South African veteran
Gary Player claimed at the British Open last month that some golfers
were taking performance-enhancing drugs.

You've got to wonder what type of performance-enhancing drug would be good
for golf. Are there drugs that simultaneously calm you down, give you better
control and more strength? This could show my complete ignorance of just
about everything golf-related, of course.

In this particular case, the issue is the masking of possible steroid use,
and I just don't associate steroids with being calm, nerves of steel, that
sort of thing.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


"Bill C" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Aug 1, 1:31 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote:
National short or Television Program shirt. If they have a bike
between their legs they will still cheat.

Why do we continue to act as if this is a cycling-specific issue?
Cheating
is rampant throughout society. White-collar crime is rampant (market
manipulation, option schemes, embezzlement...), students at the highest
universities in the land are not questioning their "need" to cheat on
tests,
etc.

Having a bike between your legs does not in any way change your desire to
cheat; it only changes the mechanism. Society at large has decided what
the
ethical parameters for life have become. Cycling is one of the
most-obvious
indications of were those parameters lie, because we actually believe
(perhaps naively) that something can be done about it, and publicize
those
attempts. We air our dirty laundry for all the world to see, and to what
end?

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com


http://msn.foxsports.com/golf/story/7081816

Quoted:

His local golf club in Florence released a statement later Wednesday,
defending him and saying that he had informed authorities at the time
of the test that he had taken the drug for almost two years to treat a
prostate problem.

Golf has come under increased pressure from the World Anti-Doping
Agency to introduce random drug testing after South African veteran
Gary Player claimed at the British Open last month that some golfers
were taking performance-enhancing drugs.


I don't think Wada is going after the rich, white guy, league here in
the US that is the PGA, or at least not for long.
Way more lawyers, and politicians golf, and are fanatical about it,
than race bicycles.
Bill C

On Aug 1, 3:55 pm, William Asher wrote:
Donald Munro wrote:
Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
Putin is going after the political control but leaving out the
capitalist part. Nationalizing all the oil companies and such.

Come to think of it, there may be something to this national teams tour.
Just think of the fun we'd have if there was a Russian team, a Georgian
team, a Kazakh team and a Belarussian team. The team tactics could be
real fun involving polonium in the water bottles and RPG's in the top
tube. The peloton might even literally explode when the attacks occur.

What about a sectarian team tour? Sunnis, Shias, Catholics, Mormons,
Pentacostals, Sufis, Hindus, Bhuddists, Raelians, Scientologists,
Aetheists, Branch Davidians, Secular Nihilists, all vying to show their
beliefs lead them to be strongest, or that their god(s) were strongest on
that day. It makes sense because you know the Mormon team would be clean
and they would be the new "Millar line."

--
Bill Asher
Figuring that you'd want to go with fundamentalist teams:

The mormons and Muslims would be too worn out from their multiple
wives to place well so they are out. The Catholics are off on Sunday,
the Jews on Saturday so they lose out. The Bhuddists just cant turn a
crank in anger so they are off the back. The scientlogists and
raelians would be sucked back to their spaceships from a mountaintop.
Janet Reno is still alive, manlier, and uglier than Tammy T, so the
Davidians have no chance. I'd have to put my money on the Athiests or
Nihilists with the nod going to the Nihilists because they would get
the best dope and do whatever it took.
Bill C

On Aug 1, 4:20 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote:
His local golf club in Florence released a statement later Wednesday,
defending him and saying that he had informed authorities at the time
of the test that he had taken the drug for almost two years to treat a
prostate problem.

Golf has come under increased pressure from the World Anti-Doping
Agency to introduce random drug testing after South African veteran
Gary Player claimed at the British Open last month that some golfers
were taking performance-enhancing drugs.

You've got to wonder what type of performance-enhancing drug would be good
for golf. Are there drugs that simultaneously calm you down, give you better
control and more strength? This could show my complete ignorance of just
about everything golf-related, of course.

In this particular case, the issue is the masking of possible steroid use,
and I just don't associate steroids with being calm, nerves of steel, that
sort of thing.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

"Bill C" wrote in message

ups.com...



On Aug 1, 1:31 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote:
National short or Television Program shirt. If they have a bike
between their legs they will still cheat.

Why do we continue to act as if this is a cycling-specific issue?
Cheating
is rampant throughout society. White-collar crime is rampant (market
manipulation, option schemes, embezzlement...), students at the highest
universities in the land are not questioning their "need" to cheat on
tests,
etc.

Having a bike between your legs does not in any way change your desire to
cheat; it only changes the mechanism. Society at large has decided what
the
ethical parameters for life have become. Cycling is one of the
most-obvious
indications of were those parameters lie, because we actually believe
(perhaps naively) that something can be done about it, and publicize
those
attempts. We air our dirty laundry for all the world to see, and to what
end?

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com

I have no idea what would work for golf though the news is about
steroids. The only things that appeal to me about golf are beer, golf
carts, and possibly combining the game with skeet shooting.
Bill C

On Aug 1, 9:38 am, wrote:

Correct

National short or Television Program shirt. If they have a bike
between their legs they will still cheat.

In cycling (in English), it's "jersey," not "shirt."
If you're going to stick around in rbr past July, please
get the terminology correct. Please do stick around -
we'll have you doing amateur cyclocross races before
you know it, and the next thing you know, it's
Master Fattiedom, LiveDRUNK, and grubbing for Kenacort
prescriptions. Look at Ryan - he used to be such
a nice boy, before he started posting to rbr!

Ben
RBR Goodwill Ambassador