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#11
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I hear DC has some nice trails and I've added them to my list of trails to
ride. Have you rode any of them? I'm considering the Mount Vernon Trail, Capital Cresent and a few others in the area. Beverly I go to DC at least three time a year from Jersey. I take the train from Penn Station. Then I use the metro. I can't even imagine riding a bike through that city. They do have wonderful hiking trails in DC. Next time I go I may think about biking those trails instead of walking. DC is a fabulous place. My other friend lives right in the heart of the city and she and her friend have their bikes right near the door of their apartment. They take them everywhere. They are both lawyers and they bike to their office. When I was there last, she was having a cocktail party so I took the Metro to get to her apartment and then walked to her place. I was almost killed WALKING in that city. I felt safer waiting for the metroliner by myself at 1:00 a.m. I give credit to anyone who will bike in a city. I think I will stick to the "Burbs" for bike riding. Peace and Stuff http://hometown.aol.com/lbuset/ |
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#12
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On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 13:18:30 GMT, "Peter Cole"
wrote: "Blair P. Houghton" wrote in message .. . Badger_South wrote: I'm off to the main part of the city for my first ride ever in serious traffic, and clipless, even. Boo-Haw! That's nothing. Today I was driving home from the gym, and passed this MORON riding on a major collector with a 50-mph limit and no bike lane. With a trailer with what looked like a 2-YEAR-OLD in it trolling behind his mtb. But hey, this ass-clown at least put one of those WHIPPY ORANGE FLAGS on the trailer. I suppose so they could more easily determine which wheel of the inevitable Hummer his ****ing DAUGHTER was under. I have ridden many times in urban traffic (Boston) pulling my daughter with a trailer-bike. It's no big deal. I taught my (then) 12 year old son urban cycling by riding cross-town in rush hour traffic in several lessons. One of the most important things to teach is the specific kinds of danger presented by bike lanes and paths. I actually have 2 of those silly orange flags, I've never actually used either one. My wife commutes to work daily by bike, my son to school. During the summer, my son commutes downtown every day to a sailing center. I wouldn't allow them to do those things if I though it was dangerous, it isn't, if done correctly. What I'm wondering is why, among people who have a strong common interest in cycling and the attendant philosophies of fitness, and human-power, there would be such a diametrical POV on this. Obviously those that have done it feel it's safe. One can't discount that perception, b/c road riding is all about your perception, imo. I'd have to say I'm not convinced that specific 'dangerous events' (biker hit, car's fault) would even be correllated with 'scary 50mph road, no shoulder'. I'm not trying to take sides, I really don't know. But to a beginner, certain roads may look more dangerous than they actually are. I have one road that has multiple highspeed entry points, crossing the interstate, and then at both ends, narrowing to funnel the cars to highly used locations. So traffic can be significant even between rush hour. It's 45-55 mph travel. But... o there are shoulders, in places, very wide; o the area is 'wide-open', iow no obstructions, tree shade, etc.; o road is straight - a biker would -stand out-, and be very hard to miss; o attentiveness is -up- due to the complexity of finding one's turn off; o opportunity exists for using at low peak times; o it's a short run of about .1 to .2 miles, one light. Problems: o shoulders merge with exit loops and entry loops to interstate; o drivers sometimes use shoulders to enter or leave loops early; o impatience aspect is up; o high tailgating area; o drivers seem impatient; o drivers get annoyed at the funnelling at each end; o drivers over-eager to accelerate up to interstate; o drivers exiting the interstate may drive too fast for a few minutes; o drivers struggle with merging into loops, shared with exiting cars. So maybe the OP saw this during a high anxiety time at that interchange, and as experienced towers, we might instinctively, or purposely pick low anxiety times to transit this location? As to nitpicking the above, yes, we've all known of bikers being hit in low travel, highly lit, clear, sunny straight sections of road... ;-) Are there unwritten 'rules' or different experiences for riding with a trailer? o to drivers, bike/trailer is 'novelty'; they slow and pass w/wide margin; o larger size and width of colorful trailer make bike more visible; o presence of child in trailer - causes drivers to slow and pass /w care; o specific dangers of riding in traffic may a perception, but not proven. Problems: o cyclist may have trouble negotiating hill and S-turns w/trailer; o slower vehicles typically annoy drivers; o drivers may take chances to pass slow vehicles; o on rear impact, child would be hit first; o on front impact, child would be flung into traffic (?); o riding in traffic should be an individual choice; o flimsy aluminum nylon composition falsely appears dangerous. -B Still, it's not always clear why a driver might not see a large guy in bright colorful clothing, dressed strangely, and wearing funny shoes and hat, riding on a bike, waving his hands and whistling. ;-) |
#13
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"Badger_South" wrote in message
... On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 13:18:30 GMT, "Peter Cole" My wife commutes to work daily by bike, my son to school. During the summer, my son commutes downtown every day to a sailing center. I wouldn't allow them to do those things if I though it was dangerous, it isn't, if done correctly. What I'm wondering is why, among people who have a strong common interest in cycling and the attendant philosophies of fitness, and human-power, there would be such a diametrical POV on this. Obviously those that have done it feel it's safe. One can't discount that perception, b/c road riding is all about your perception, imo. Actually, I think it's all about statistics. How do you know how safe airline flying is? Smoking? Sub-compact vs. SUV? These numbers are published, studies are done and critiqued. Perceptions are notorious for inaccuracy. |
#14
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Badger_South wrote:
What I'm wondering is why, among people who have a strong common interest in cycling and the attendant philosophies of fitness, and human-power, there would be such a diametrical POV on this. I think that people that don't understand driver and cyclist behavior get caught up in their own mis-perceptions. The driver gets mad because tehre is no way he or she will try sneaking past a bicycle with a trailer, they have to wait and go around. They might be willing to risk hitting an adult bicyclist, but not a child. In my area, someone tried to mobilize the PTA against allowing bicycles on expressways (not freeways, in California there is a difference). Ironically, while expressways may not be pleasant to bicycle on, they are about the safest place to cycle as long as they have traffic lights at cross-streets, rather than limited access ramps. There are very few driveways, and uncontrolled intersections. |
#15
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Blair P. Houghton wrote:
You haven't wondered if you're really gonna enjoy being alive until you've stood with one foot on a pedal and the other on a curb while an accelerating Metrobus blasts diesel soot across your entire body in 92F/100%RH conditions. Better than getting knocked over by a wall of slush and snow in freezing conditions. justen |
#16
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On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 15:42:15 GMT, "Peter Cole"
wrote: "Badger_South" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 13:18:30 GMT, "Peter Cole" My wife commutes to work daily by bike, my son to school. During the summer, my son commutes downtown every day to a sailing center. I wouldn't allow them to do those things if I though it was dangerous, it isn't, if done correctly. What I'm wondering is why, among people who have a strong common interest in cycling and the attendant philosophies of fitness, and human-power, there would be such a diametrical POV on this. Obviously those that have done it feel it's safe. One can't discount that perception, b/c road riding is all about your perception, imo. Actually, I think it's all about statistics. How do you know how safe airline flying is? Smoking? Sub-compact vs. SUV? These numbers are published, studies are done and critiqued. Perceptions are notorious for inaccuracy. I mean one's feeling of 'panic', or 'danger' can be based on perception of risk; if you don't perceive something as risky, i.e. bungee jumping, for you it's not. You vocalize this as 'the fun is worth the risk'. But in reality, the internal feeling is not one of 'danger', nor is it acquired by reading statistics.. If you don't perceive road riding as dangerous then for you, it's not. As a cyclist, you're unlikely to be proven wrong, as many ppl have ridden many miles and for many years and never been hurt on a bike. Certainly from your perspective you should -look- at stats, and try to bring your emotional response in line, but that doesn't always happen. I have a feeling we're on the same side of these issues, just describing different aspects. -B |
#17
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Badger_South wrote:
What I'm wondering is why, among people who have a strong common interest in cycling and the attendant philosophies of fitness, and human-power, there would be such a diametrical POV on this. Obviously those that have done it feel it's safe. One can't discount that perception, b/c road riding is all about your perception, imo. I'd have to say I'm not convinced that specific 'dangerous events' (biker hit, car's fault) would even be correllated with 'scary 50mph road, no shoulder'. I'm not trying to take sides, I really don't know. But to a beginner, certain roads may look more dangerous than they actually are. This is absolutely true. My own experience: When I began adult biking in the early 1970s, I was very careful about choosing roads. Roads were divided into those that had very little traffic ("good for cycling"), roads that had more traffic but slow moving ("scary" - but you can't get into town otherwise) and "I can't ride there" roads. As I read more & learned more about riding, the middle type of road became not scary at all. And the "can't ride there" category got smaller and smaller. For many, many years now, I've been at the point where "can't ride there" roads don't seem to exist. Roads that used to scare me are now perfectly normal riding. I've now ridden coast to coast, following my own route, and never found anything I couldn't safely ride. I've ridden downtown DC as part of that trip - no problem. I've ridden in dozens of major cities and several foreign countries. Some roads are more pleasant than others, of course. I prefer less noise and fumes (although exhaust fumes seem worse overseas). But I actively enjoy biking city centers. I think it's the best way to _see_ a city. Those who are fearful, take heart. You can learn to ride anywhere you like. -- Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com. Substitute cc dot ysu dot edu] |
#18
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"Badger_South" wrote in message
... On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 15:42:15 GMT, "Peter Cole" wrote: Actually, I think it's all about statistics. How do you know how safe airline flying is? Smoking? Sub-compact vs. SUV? These numbers are published, studies are done and critiqued. Perceptions are notorious for inaccuracy. If you don't perceive road riding as dangerous then for you, it's not. As a cyclist, you're unlikely to be proven wrong, as many ppl have ridden many miles and for many years and never been hurt on a bike. Certainly from your perspective you should -look- at stats, and try to bring your emotional response in line, but that doesn't always happen. I have a feeling we're on the same side of these issues, just describing different aspects. I'm having trouble following you. You have to read the statistics to discover what is risky and what is not. Perception changes with adaptation. We were all terrified the first time we drove a car. If you ride in the city a lot (to bring this thread back) you adapt to it. Those who do it rarely or never don't adapt, and so never get over their anxiety. Conversely, many people putter along bike paths feeling perfectly safe and get clobbered, ignorance is bliss. |
#19
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On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 18:08:15 GMT, "Peter Cole"
wrote: "Badger_South" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 15:42:15 GMT, "Peter Cole" wrote: Actually, I think it's all about statistics. How do you know how safe airline flying is? Smoking? Sub-compact vs. SUV? These numbers are published, studies are done and critiqued. Perceptions are notorious for inaccuracy. If you don't perceive road riding as dangerous then for you, it's not. As a cyclist, you're unlikely to be proven wrong, as many ppl have ridden many miles and for many years and never been hurt on a bike. Certainly from your perspective you should -look- at stats, and try to bring your emotional response in line, but that doesn't always happen. I have a feeling we're on the same side of these issues, just describing different aspects. I'm having trouble following you. You have to read the statistics to discover what is risky and what is not. Perception changes with adaptation. Well-l-l, most of the time. We were all terrified the first time we drove a car. If you ride in the city a lot (to bring this thread back) you adapt to it. Those who do it rarely or never don't adapt, and so never get over their anxiety. As a kid, I adapted easily and quickly. Now I have trouble adapting and won't drive to Wash. D.C. Maybe I need a could hard core driving classes, and better eyesight. ;-D Conversely, many people putter along bike paths feeling perfectly safe and get clobbered, ignorance is bliss. I agree with you here. Anyway, good points. -B Next time my wife starts freaking out about sharks at the beach, I'll just read her the statistics. |
#20
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On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 16:41:35 GMT, "Steven M. Scharf"
wrote: Badger_South wrote: What I'm wondering is why, among people who have a strong common interest in cycling and the attendant philosophies of fitness, and human-power, there would be such a diametrical POV on this. I think that people that don't understand driver and cyclist behavior get caught up in their own mis-perceptions. The driver gets mad because tehre is no way he or she will try sneaking past a bicycle with a trailer, they have to wait and go around. They might be willing to risk hitting an adult bicyclist, but not a child. Are you seeing, like I am, a lucrative market for life-like blow up babies to tow in bike trailers? ;-D In my area, someone tried to mobilize the PTA against allowing bicycles on expressways (not freeways, in California there is a difference). Ironically, while expressways may not be pleasant to bicycle on, they are about the safest place to cycle as long as they have traffic lights at cross-streets, rather than limited access ramps. There are very few driveways, and uncontrolled intersections. Still ya gotta take into account the increased speed if someone makes a mistake, eh? Or maybe not. Guess it's a matter of nerve. I had a lot more of that in my 20s. Maybe it's still in me, I'll keep looking. ;-p -B |
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