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Badger_South wrote:
|| On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 18:50:19 -0500, "Roger Zoul" || wrote: || ||||| I picked 90" to 2 hours as the point at which some ppl start ||||| eating ||||| and drinking during the ride. You say 3 hours, I don't disagree. ||| ||| Well, it's your opinion. I'm of the opinion that if I need to ||| stretch or eat or whatever, I'll get off the bike. I'm not a pro so ||| there's no need to do other things while riding. I don't need the ||| hassle of getting hurt needlessly. Income to protect, ||| responsibilities, etc. YMMV. || || Not trying to be argumentative, but I don't expect to fall off the || bike at speed, but I still ride and I go down hills and reach 35mph. || That's gotta || be more dangerous than riding no hands to get something out of your || jersey back pocket, such as a dispo. camera. Well, I don't expect to fall at speed either....but it seems when you ride no-handed, you increase your changes of falling as you're usually shifting around and stuff. || ||| BTW, I usually get off the bike at about 20 miles, so your 1.5 ||| hours is about right for me || || My experience may be different, b/c I don't equate riding with no || hands as dangerous at all, given you don't pick the wrong time or || part of the road || to do it sparingly. I'm not advocating riding that way to impress || the babes or anything. || || It isnt' even so much that, as it's irritating to -not- be able to || ride no hands, even coasting, and take off your sunglasses and put || on your spares. || || So you telling me you're just over-cautious, or that never having || done that you have none of the skills. You'll never get on a || unicycle, then? Just askin', not trying to be a butt. Actually, I used to do it all the time when I was a kid...but for some reason that skill has not returned. Not that I've been trying hard to develop it, though. || || I've never even come close to getting hurt or even a hint of it, and || I used to do it a lot with my paper route. I'd fold the papers while || riding and throw them up on the porch. Same here. || || As I said, it's part of bike handling, imo. Sure, elect not to do it || much, but don't totally avoid having the skill set. || || -B || Several of my cycling books talk about it, and one mentions it's || necessary skill, but not sure of their context. I'll look it up if || you like. Naw...just curious.....so how do you work up that skill -- without getting killed? |
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#12
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On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 20:12:02 -0500, "Roger Zoul"
wrote: Several of my cycling books talk about it, and one mentions it's || necessary skill, but not sure of their context. I'll look it up if || you like. Naw...just curious.....so how do you work up that skill -- without getting killed? 60% of it is the bike. Actually I was reading a web-based biking forum, I think, and one guy was talking about how amazingly well his new bike was 'tracking'. Then talked about holding it by the back of the saddle and just easing it along, and it rode dead level straight on the carpet of the bike store, and without even trying to 'balance' it. When I got on my brother's bike, I rode immediately without hands, but could tell the skill had degraded too. On mine there seems to be some threshold 'value' that's not giving me the right kinesiological cues to let go and feel safe. In addition, since mine has the top tube that slopes, you can't grasp it betwen the knees, which helps you stready it until the sense of balance returns. I was thinking of having a short piece of strapping around one H/B, so I could completely sit up, but still lightly restrain them from flopping to the left. Remind me of what bike you ride? I'd like to look at a comparable pic to see the top tube geometry. -B |
#13
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Badger South (who?) writes:
I finally found the root cause of my problem with the bike not tracking properly. Trek hybrid, no shocks, tires are 700x35c just a touch of crosshatching treat, almost looks bald. Tread pattern does not make riding no-hands easier. This has nothing to do with tracking. In fact, knobs on some MTB tires make no-hands riding difficult on an otherwise stable bicycle. The third lbs guy to look at it spun the tire and said 'you have a shimmy in the tire. The tire may have been put on incorrectly and the bead of the tire might not have been in the rim straight'. Tires don't have shimmies, frames do. If your tire has a bulge and has so many miles on it that it is bald, then you probably have a tire casing rupture, a larger cord failure. These can blow out. It's a small and hardly noticeable section with the tire is off true for about 8 inches, and it's definitely the rubber tire portion, but you have to spin it a time or two if you're not used to looking at tires. He said he spotted it when spinning my front wheel and checking the brakes. This guy was really nice, b/c he gave me a quick tune up while putting on my SPDs. If he'd looked like Halle Berry, I'da...well, you know. ;-D I can't tell from here what sort of terms he used to describe the fault but it doesn't sound right in your re-telling of it. I noticed the lack of tracking when holding the back of the saddle and trying to roll the bike forwards. Despite my trying time after time to do this and keep the tiny bit of correction going with tilting it, this bike will -not- track straight; thus I can not ride it without hands, and you -need- to be able to ride no hands when you're going over 90 minutes to two hours, IMO. If this doesn't fix it, maybe the headset needs examined or something. From what you say, it sounds more like too tight a head bearing. Does the front wheel swing freely from side-to-side when the bicycle is lifted and held just forward of the tilt angle at which it responds to rearward tilt? That is, just ahead of the neutral tilt? If that point is ill defined, you already have the answer. It's too tight. So I'll have 'em look at this, and probably change the tire. Get to the point where you can do this yourself. This is simple stuff. It's when it requires new parts or special tools that you should go to the LBS. Jobst Brandt |
#14
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Badger South (who?) writes:
I was thinking of having a short piece of strapping around one H/B, so I could completely sit up, but still lightly restrain them from flopping to the left. Hold it, you didn't say that before. I took it that the response was unstable. If it prefers to veer to the left then the fork ends are most likely off center to the right. It is either the fork or the frame with a leaning headtube that causes the same effect. Remind me of what bike you ride? I'd like to look at a comparable pic to see the top tube geometry. You can't see anything from the shape or angle of a top tube, especially with one that normally slopes down forward or rearward. Jobst Brandt |
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Badger_South wrote:
|| On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 20:12:02 -0500, "Roger Zoul" || wrote: || ||| Several of my cycling books talk about it, and one mentions it's ||||| necessary skill, but not sure of their context. I'll look it up if ||||| you like. ||| ||| Naw...just curious.....so how do you work up that skill -- without ||| getting killed? || || 60% of it is the bike. Actually I was reading a web-based biking || forum, I think, and one guy was talking about how amazingly well his || new bike was 'tracking'. Then talked about holding it by the back of || the saddle and just easing it along, and it rode dead level straight || on the carpet of the bike store, and without even trying to || 'balance' it. || || When I got on my brother's bike, I rode immediately without hands, || but could tell the skill had degraded too. On mine there seems to be || some threshold 'value' that's not giving me the right kinesiological || cues to let go and feel safe. In addition, since mine has the top || tube that slopes, you can't grasp it betwen the knees, which helps || you stready it until the sense of balance returns. || || I was thinking of having a short piece of strapping around one H/B, || so I could completely sit up, but still lightly restrain them from || flopping to the left. || || Remind me of what bike you ride? I'd like to look at a comparable || pic to see the top tube geometry. Specialized Sequoia Expert, 2003. Sloping top tube. http://tinyurl.com/65zo5 |
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On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 22:26:40 -0500, "Roger Zoul"
wrote: Badger_South wrote: || On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 20:12:02 -0500, "Roger Zoul" || wrote: || || || Remind me of what bike you ride? I'd like to look at a comparable || pic to see the top tube geometry. Specialized Sequoia Expert, 2003. Sloping top tube. http://tinyurl.com/65zo5 Nice. When you gently push the bike forward by holding under the back edge of the seat, palm up, does it track (roll forward) straight without too much effort? If it does, I believe that's a good sign. If it doesn't, gee it may be user error. My brother's bike when pushed forwards like this goes straight (he's got the same model, but two grades lower), and as you walk faster, it continues to do this. Mine a few inches, feet at the most, the h/b flop to one side or the other. Even if you gently angle or rock the bike ever so slightly to the opposing side to gentle it into staying straight, as soon as you do this it flops completely to -that- side. Don't even try to walk briskly with it. Given that I can walk his and not mine makes me think it's not me. ;-) -B |
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Badger South who? writes:
I can't tell from here what sort of terms he used to describe the fault but it doesn't sound right in your re-telling of it. It's not a bulge. If you look at the line of contact around the center apex of the tire, in a short section this veers to the left, (you are facing the bike viewing edge on), then returns to center. The rest of the contact line is centered perfectly. I noticed the lack of tracking when holding the back of the saddle and trying to roll the bike forwards. Despite my trying time after time to do this and keep the tiny bit of correction going with tilting it, this bike will -not- track straight; thus I can not ride it without hands, and you -need- to be able to ride no hands when you're going over 90 minutes to two hours, IMO. If this doesn't fix it, maybe the headset needs examined or something. From what you say, it sounds more like too tight a head bearing. Does the front wheel swing freely from side-to-side when the bicycle is lifted and held just forward of the tilt angle at which it responds to rearward tilt? That is, just ahead of the neutral tilt? If that point is ill defined, you already have the answer. It's too tight. It flops to the left. Then you aren't performing the test as described. Tilt the bicycle forward until the wheel does NOT flop to one side anymore and then lean the frame gently from side to side and see if the steering follows smoothly. This is the simpler in situ test that can also be made by removing the front wheel and bars to see how freely the fork rotates in the head bearing using thumb and forefinger for rotation. So I'll have 'em look at this, and probably change the tire. Get to the point where you can do this yourself. This is simple stuff. It's when it requires new parts or special tools that you should go to the LBS. Hip injury. The LBS has no influence there. I hope you went elsewhere for that. Jobst Brandt |
#20
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Badger South (who?) writes:
I was thinking of having a short piece of strapping around one H/B, so I could completely sit up, but still lightly restrain them from flopping to the left. Hold it, you didn't say that before. I took it that the response was unstable. If it prefers to veer to the left then the fork ends are most likely off center to the right. It is either the fork or the frame with a leaning headtube that causes the same effect. Remind me of what bike you ride? I'd like to look at a comparable pic to see the top tube geometry. You can't see anything from the shape or angle of a top tube, especially with one that normally slopes down forward or rearward. If I roll the bike in the house holding the back of the seat, I can't push it more than a couple inches before it tries to completely flop to one side, be it right or left. Even with gentle steering by leaning I can 'correct' for a few inches and it flops to the other side. I tried for quite a while to get it to track straight, and it would not. If you do this at less than walking speed, I would expect any bicycle to do that. How does it compare with other people's bicycles? Have you ever walked with a bicycle held by the saddle only in this manner. It takes a bit of manual dexterity. From what you say here, understanding the circumstances of your bicycle instability is not easy and for this reason, I suspect you are not adept at this sort of thing. Can you walk with your hip repair and test the straight ahead stability of the hand guided bicycle? On the other hand, if you could precisely describe the symptoms, you would probably not ask, because the solution would be contained in your description. So this seems to point to it being the looseness or tightness of the head tube. One person told me it may be the head tube is too loose, and that tightening it would prevent such easy flop to the side. Not at all. The test must be made, but walking a bicycle with hand on the saddle does not a good test make other than that the head bearings are not too tight. That the bicycle has a bias only comes out when riding no-hands (without wind) down the road. Road crown does not affect this. On the angle of the top tube, I was wondering how important it was to be able to lightly trap the top tube between the thighs when first starting to ride no hands. The slope from front to seat post was such that I couldn't touch it with my knees, side of the leg, nothing. A top tube that's level from h/b to seat tube, I can grasp lightly between the thighs, and this helps. Later, iirc, you don't need this. That is not necessary but it is useful when coasting downhill no-hands because most bicycles for tall people tend to shimmy and laying the leg against the top tube is the way it is most easily controlled. Jobst Brandt |
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