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#1
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Thinking of building a touring trailer: looking for parts
Hi all,
I've been thinking about building a decent cargo trailer for the purpose of long-distance touring. By long distance: well right now I've got the idea of a trip down the Barry Way from Jindabyne through to the Great Ocean Road. That idea is just "pipe dream" status right now. There's also the trips I do to assist in emergency communications for Brisbane Area WICEN, e.g. each year we go up to Imbil to run checkpoints for the International Rally of Queensland car rally as well as numerous horse endurance ride events, and one or two Bicycle Queensland events. So being able to do those without relying on someone else for transport would be good too. Intended terrain would be mostly "on-road", where "road" can vary from good quality bitumen through to state forest fire trails, etc. I have a Croozer cargo trailer which is mostly okay, but I'm concerned about a few things: - the wheels are a small less-common size and so getting tubes and tyres will be a pain. - it has a 30kg load limit: I'll want to carry water and food along with some camping gear. - my particular trailer is showing signs of wear and tear. I have a couple of bikes, but the one I have in mind to go touring with is a Giant Talon 29ER 0. I've upgraded the wheels on it and have the original stock 29" wheels it came with. I figured it would be a good idea if the new trailer I built, used compatible wheels, so that should disaster strike, I can swap things around and it saves on the number of spare tyres/tubes I need to carry. The 29" tyres should be easier to source too. Problem being: most of these type wheels are sold as a front/rear set. I know I can get them overseas individually (Wiggle were advertising a Shimano front wheel for around the $140 mark). Does anyone know places in Australia that sell 29" front-wheels at a reasonable price? Any places sell used wheels? On the actual trailer design, I've been fiddling around in OpenSCAD modelling various aspects. At the moment I'm thinking of doing it with box-section aluminium, as 20-25mm section is pretty common and seems to have quite a bit of strength. Joining the sections will be the challenge though: a good design here would be one that is reasonably robust, but can be fixed with a minimum of tools if things break. For this reason I'm looking at bolting the sections together. I note places like Bunnings sell 25mm section and a range of plastic joiners (QubeLock/Connect-IT brands): does anyone know how strong these are or know of where one can get aluminium equivalents? Anyone tried building something with this stuff for a mobile situation? |
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#2
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Thinking of building a touring trailer: looking for parts
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 14:47:47 +1000, Stuart Longland wrote:
Intended terrain would be mostly "on-road", where "road" can vary from good quality bitumen through to state forest fire trails, etc. I have a Croozer cargo trailer which is mostly okay, but I'm concerned about a few things: The two basic designs are single wheel like the bob style or double wheel like all the kiddie trailers, which you've got. Single wheel styles are useful as there is only one track, so you can minimise bumps, rocks, punctures, etc. If you want a standard wheel in the trailer, then it is a custom build. You can build the bnob/jack london sytle flatbed style or you can build a "chinese wheel barrow style with low rider panniers on either side. - the wheels are a small less-common size and so getting tubes and tyres will be a pain. - it has a 30kg load limit: I'll want to carry water and food along with some camping gear. My 2c is to invest in solid rack front and back with loaw rider bits and have four panniers. The lower the weight the more stable your bicycle and the easier to keep it upright. I always preferred to carry the weight on the bicycle first for touring. If it didn't fit, then you had too much. On long dry trips, I've carried 2x5L bottles in medium size panniers on the front rack and picked up best water as we went along. These days, I'd strongly suggest a good filter pump for all water collected. I had the advantage of being able to sew up my own with old domestic sewing machines. They wore out fast but were relatively cheap. I don't know how you'd get on with the plastic gears they use these days. Does anyone know places in Australia that sell 29" front-wheels at a reasonable price? Any places sell used wheels? Sigh, the world has moved on yet again. My mum and dad rode on 28" tyres, I road on 27' and used 26" for touring. Now they are up to 29". On the actual trailer design, I've been fiddling around in OpenSCAD modelling various aspects. At the moment I'm thinking of doing it with box-section aluminium, as 20-25mm section is pretty common and seems to have quite a bit of strength. Can you weld? A few years prior, I'd recommend going to tafe and learning TIG welding and doing a few foreign orders. No idea how you'd get on now. at one stage, various AID agency had plans for easy to build bicycle trailers on the web. I don't know if they are still around, but they were all two wheel trailers largely of the tea chest carrying design. but can be fixed with a minimum of tools if things break. In Australia, you'd just use aluminium. If you were going elsewhere and in really remote, you'd make it out of steel as they use car batteries for welding. I think British Steels was the supplier of bicycle frame quality steel in Australia, but i believe they have closed down. For this reason I'm looking at bolting the sections together. Fiddly and requires experience to do properly and not tear out. I note places like Bunnings sell 25mm section and a range of plastic joiners (QubeLock/Connect-IT brands): does anyone know how strong these are You can test them buy buying two long section(1m) of box section and fastening one end and putting full force on the other and see what fails first. I'm not impressed by tyhem. YMMV. or know of where one can get aluminium equivalents? Anyone tried building something with this stuff for a mobile situation? I've always fiddled with steel from street finds in the past. YMMV. |
#3
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Thinking of building a touring trailer: looking for parts
news13 wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 14:47:47 +1000, Stuart Longland wrote: Intended terrain would be mostly "on-road", where "road" can vary from good quality bitumen through to state forest fire trails, etc. I have a Croozer cargo trailer which is mostly okay, but I'm concerned about a few things: The two basic designs are single wheel like the bob style or double wheel like all the kiddie trailers, which you've got. Single wheel styles are useful as there is only one track, so you can minimise bumps, rocks, punctures, etc. If you want a standard wheel in the trailer, then it is a custom build. You can build the bnob/jack london sytle flatbed style or you can build a "chinese wheel barrow style with low rider panniers on either side. - the wheels are a small less-common size and so getting tubes and tyres will be a pain. - it has a 30kg load limit: I'll want to carry water and food along with some camping gear. My 2c is to invest in solid rack front and back with loaw rider bits and have four panniers. The lower the weight the more stable your bicycle and the easier to keep it upright. I always preferred to carry the weight on the bicycle first for touring. If it didn't fit, then you had too much. On long dry trips, I've carried 2x5L bottles in medium size panniers on the front rack and picked up best water as we went along. These days, I'd strongly suggest a good filter pump for all water collected. I had the advantage of being able to sew up my own with old domestic sewing machines. They wore out fast but were relatively cheap. I don't know how you'd get on with the plastic gears they use these days. Does anyone know places in Australia that sell 29" front-wheels at a reasonable price? Any places sell used wheels? Sigh, the world has moved on yet again. My mum and dad rode on 28" tyres, I road on 27' and used 26" for touring. Now they are up to 29". On the actual trailer design, I've been fiddling around in OpenSCAD modelling various aspects. At the moment I'm thinking of doing it with box-section aluminium, as 20-25mm section is pretty common and seems to have quite a bit of strength. Can you weld? A few years prior, I'd recommend going to tafe and learning TIG welding and doing a few foreign orders. No idea how you'd get on now. at one stage, various AID agency had plans for easy to build bicycle trailers on the web. I don't know if they are still around, but they were all two wheel trailers largely of the tea chest carrying design. but can be fixed with a minimum of tools if things break. In Australia, you'd just use aluminium. If you were going elsewhere and in really remote, you'd make it out of steel as they use car batteries for welding. I think British Steels was the supplier of bicycle frame quality steel in Australia, but i believe they have closed down. For this reason I'm looking at bolting the sections together. Fiddly and requires experience to do properly and not tear out. I note places like Bunnings sell 25mm section and a range of plastic joiners (QubeLock/Connect-IT brands): does anyone know how strong these are You can test them buy buying two long section(1m) of box section and fastening one end and putting full force on the other and see what fails first. I'm not impressed by tyhem. YMMV. or know of where one can get aluminium equivalents? Anyone tried building something with this stuff for a mobile situation? I've always fiddled with steel from street finds in the past. YMMV. Test |
#4
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Thinking of building a touring trailer: looking for parts
On 13/04/15 22:43, F Murtz wrote:
news13 wrote: Geez, I posted that months ago, didn't see anything come through until tonight. I thought my post had wound up in /dev/null. I'll have to dig up where else this newsgroup is archived in order to get an idea of what replies there were. In the meantime, I've been getting some advice he http://www.bikeforums.net/living-car...e-touring.html So I have two Shimano MT35 wheels now with centre-lock disc brake rotors. I've done some preliminary mounting brackets for the wheels to test a few ideas out and have an idea how some of it will fit together. I apologise if people thought I was rude asking then not replying, I literally only just saw the replies. On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 14:47:47 +1000, Stuart Longland wrote: Intended terrain would be mostly "on-road", where "road" can vary from good quality bitumen through to state forest fire trails, etc. I have a Croozer cargo trailer which is mostly okay, but I'm concerned about a few things: The two basic designs are single wheel like the bob style or double wheel like all the kiddie trailers, which you've got. Single wheel styles are useful as there is only one track, so you can minimise bumps, rocks, punctures, etc. If you want a standard wheel in the trailer, then it is a custom build. You can build the bnob/jack london sytle flatbed style or you can build a "chinese wheel barrow style with low rider panniers on either side. Indeed, did consider the single-wheel option. They're a more complicated hitch arrangement since the hitch has to connect to both sides of the trailer for it to tilt with the bike. My big concern here is in fitting some of the gear I have. In particular: - my solar panel (40W Jaycar jobbie) for charging batteries (I won't have mains power at the places where I'll be going) - my tent (OzTrail SwitchBack 2; folds up into a bag the same size as one of my 29" wheels) - food and water storage - spare wheelset (insurance policy in case I break a spoke) It'll be awkward to fit this on a single-wheel type trailer. I appreciate the advantages they offer, but also appreciate some of the limitations. Not that a dual-wheel design is without its flaws. - the wheels are a small less-common size and so getting tubes and tyres will be a pain. - it has a 30kg load limit: I'll want to carry water and food along with some camping gear. My 2c is to invest in solid rack front and back with loaw rider bits and have four panniers. The lower the weight the more stable your bicycle and the easier to keep it upright. I always preferred to carry the weight on the bicycle first for touring. If it didn't fit, then you had too much. On long dry trips, I've carried 2x5L bottles in medium size panniers on the front rack and picked up best water as we went along. These days, I'd strongly suggest a good filter pump for all water collected. I had the advantage of being able to sew up my own with old domestic sewing machines. They wore out fast but were relatively cheap. I don't know how you'd get on with the plastic gears they use these days. Indeed. Finding a good strong rack is easier said than done. I thought I had one with the Topeak racks. I've broken two of them in the exact same spot carrying 16kg, they're supposedly rated to 25kg. http://www.longlandclan.yi.org/~stua...2711-360px.jpg Unfortunately that's the better of the two I can source locally. For this reason, I'm now researching the design of a rack that will better fulfil my needs. Does anyone know places in Australia that sell 29" front-wheels at a reasonable price? Any places sell used wheels? Sigh, the world has moved on yet again. My mum and dad rode on 28" tyres, I road on 27' and used 26" for touring. Now they are up to 29". I've now sourced the wheels. The ones I wound up getting are centre-lock rather than 6-bolt style like my bike, and they also use a 9mm quick-release mechanism. So looks like I won't be using these as a stand-in if my front wheel gets damaged. On the actual trailer design, I've been fiddling around in OpenSCAD modelling various aspects. At the moment I'm thinking of doing it with box-section aluminium, as 20-25mm section is pretty common and seems to have quite a bit of strength. Can you weld? A few years prior, I'd recommend going to tafe and learning TIG welding and doing a few foreign orders. No idea how you'd get on now. at one stage, various AID agency had plans for easy to build bicycle trailers on the web. I don't know if they are still around, but they were all two wheel trailers largely of the tea chest carrying design. Sadly, no, no access to a welder and no knowledge of how to use one. As for plans for building a trailer, I did see some plans for building one using a bamboo frame. but can be fixed with a minimum of tools if things break. In Australia, you'd just use aluminium. If you were going elsewhere and in really remote, you'd make it out of steel as they use car batteries for welding. I think British Steels was the supplier of bicycle frame quality steel in Australia, but i believe they have closed down. Aluminium seems like my best bet in terms of general availability and also weight. 1" box section can be bought just about anywhere it seems which is a plus. I had also considered PVC, but I hear it gets brittle over time and thus might fail without warning. For this reason I'm looking at bolting the sections together. Fiddly and requires experience to do properly and not tear out. I note places like Bunnings sell 25mm section and a range of plastic joiners (QubeLock/Connect-IT brands): does anyone know how strong these are You can test them buy buying two long section(1m) of box section and fastening one end and putting full force on the other and see what fails first. I'm not impressed by tyhem. YMMV. This indeed looks to be the best plan of attack: get a sample and test to destruction. The construction techniques used in this rear rack seems to suggest it can be made to be fairly rugged. http://www.bikeforums.net/living-car...itch-rack.html Bonus points here for not needing bolt holes near the rear axle: a feature that most full-suspension mountain bikes lack. Having thought about the problem some more, those joiners might work for initially aligning everything, but then should be reinforced with suitable plates/braces to ensure nothing comes adrift. Anyway, I appreciate the input there, apologies for not getting back to people, and I'll try to keep a closer eye on this newsgroup. |
#5
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Thinking of building a touring trailer: looking for parts
http://www.bikeforums.net/living-car...itch-rack.html
Looks like a pain to remove when getting flat.. In 2004 I rode a petrol-motor assisted bike on a 2 week trip, and having to undo and reassemble everything on the side of the road, in Summer, every time I got a flat, made me conclude that 'Rotary' motors were not a good choice for touring. My currently half-built trailer project has Nitto air-compressor fittings for the hitch, an idea I got from http://www.instructables.com/id/Bicy...-hose-couplin/ What it might lack in apparently durability, I'm expecting it'll make up for in simplicity/repairibility/parts-availability. Sadly, no, no access to a welder and no knowledge of how to use one. As for plans for building a trailer, I did see some plans for building one using a bamboo frame. For my trailer's frame, I'm hoping to do a design where hose-clamps could be used for repair in even the worst senario. Sam Mitchell, the 18yo who self-built a solar-powered trike and rode it around the island, had constant issues with his welds breaking, so I'm thinking anything welded is to be avoided. -- Chris |
#6
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Thinking of building a touring trailer: looking for parts
On 18/04/15 01:03, Chris Baird wrote:
http://www.bikeforums.net/living-car...itch-rack.html Looks like a pain to remove when getting flat.. In 2004 I rode a petrol-motor assisted bike on a 2 week trip, and having to undo and reassemble everything on the side of the road, in Summer, every time I got a flat, made me conclude that 'Rotary' motors were not a good choice for touring. Yes, this is a big consideration. In my original plans I was going to use 10mm thru-axle wheels, and the ideal plan was to have the axle slide out allowing the wheel to drop out vertically. With 9mm QR mountings, due to where I'm looking to put the brake callipers, I'm thinking the QR drop-out slot will be aligned horizontally (facing back) and so to release the wheel I'd release the catch, undo the bolts a little, then pull the wheel backwards then down. My currently half-built trailer project has Nitto air-compressor fittings for the hitch, an idea I got from http://www.instructables.com/id/Bicy...-hose-couplin/ What it might lack in apparently durability, I'm expecting it'll make up for in simplicity/repairibility/parts-availability. Yeah I did see that, and agreed you should be able to get something just about anywhere. My father in his travels managed to pick up this widget: http://www.longlandclan.yi.org/~stua...tch-closed.jpg http://www.longlandclan.yi.org/~stua...hitch-open.jpg I have no idea where he got it from or where I'd get another if it failed. It's stainless steel, so should be quite hard wearing, and it gives all 3 axes of rotation with only a little bit of play in the joint. I'm told this arrangement did not work well in the end: http://www.bikeforums.net/living-car...l#post12967887 Apparently the bolts wore the mounting hole out into an ellipse after 1000 mi. Two other options I'm considering: - Heim joint: http://www.bikeforums.net/utility-cy...l#post17637003 - Cut-down castor wheel: http://www.instructables.com/id/SURF...ILER/?ALLSTEPS -- scroll to step 9 Sadly, no, no access to a welder and no knowledge of how to use one. As for plans for building a trailer, I did see some plans for building one using a bamboo frame. For my trailer's frame, I'm hoping to do a design where hose-clamps could be used for repair in even the worst senario. Sam Mitchell, the 18yo who self-built a solar-powered trike and rode it around the island, had constant issues with his welds breaking, so I'm thinking anything welded is to be avoided. Indeed. Hose clamps should be possible to get anywhere. I've had welds fail on pannier racks too and while I can carry a hacksaw and drill without too much trouble (and even then, a lot of small towns have a "mens shed"), carrying a MIG welder is out of the question. If I can get a replacement length of aluminium and either brace it against the existing parts with hose clamps or attack it with some tools and manufacture a replacement part with it, then that gets my vote. |
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Thinking of building a touring trailer: looking for parts
On Sat, 18 Apr 2015 01:03:44 +1000, Chris Baird wrote:
Sam Mitchell, the 18yo who self-built a solar-powered trike and rode it around the island, had constant issues with his welds breaking, so I'm thinking anything welded is to be avoided. Two issues; design and welding. For anything to be a realistically solar powered, it has to carry a significant weight in solar panels. There is welding and welding. Considering bicycle frames have been "welded" for over a century, that comments needs to be reconsidered. |
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Thinking of building a touring trailer: looking for parts
On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 20:43:05 +1000, Stuart Longland wrote:
This indeed looks to be the best plan of attack: get a sample and test to destruction. Err, that is my protyping method. Build one and then use it to destruction, then build another. Lot of fun. The construction techniques used in this rear rack seems to suggest it can be made to be fairly rugged. http://www.bikeforums.net/living-car...e-built-hitch- rack.html IMO, very sucky frame. no lugs on frame for mounting mudguards, or racks, which is why he/she build that arrangement. Very good in the sense that it is low down and not off the seat post or top of rack. Bonus points here for not needing bolt holes near the rear axle: a feature that most full-suspension mountain bikes lack. I wouldn't tow a trailer any other way. It puts trailer forces maximally onto rear wheel axle and reduces frame twisting as much as possible. so long as you don't loose traction, you're okay Hint, P clamps are the usual approach to overcome lack of lugs in that area. Not permanent, but reasonable until you get permanent lugs attached. |
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Thinking of building a touring trailer: looking for parts
On 18/04/15 15:31, news13 wrote:
There is welding and welding. Considering bicycle frames have been "welded" for over a century, that comments needs to be reconsidered. Indeed, a lot has to do with the skill of the person wielding the welder. A beginner like myself is guaranteed to make an utter hash of it. |
#10
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Thinking of building a touring trailer: looking for parts
Chris Baird wrote:
http://www.bikeforums.net/living-car...itch-rack.html Looks like a pain to remove when getting flat.. In 2004 I rode a petrol-motor assisted bike on a 2 week trip, and having to undo and reassemble everything on the side of the road, in Summer, every time I got a flat, made me conclude that 'Rotary' motors were not a good choice for touring. My currently half-built trailer project has Nitto air-compressor fittings for the hitch, an idea I got from http://www.instructables.com/id/Bicy...-hose-couplin/ What it might lack in apparently durability, I'm expecting it'll make up for in simplicity/repairibility/parts-availability. Not a good idea, not very reliable, I use them with compressed air and they pop apart often from a little bit of a bump. Sadly, no, no access to a welder and no knowledge of how to use one. As for plans for building a trailer, I did see some plans for building one using a bamboo frame. For my trailer's frame, I'm hoping to do a design where hose-clamps could be used for repair in even the worst senario. Sam Mitchell, the 18yo who self-built a solar-powered trike and rode it around the island, had constant issues with his welds breaking, so I'm thinking anything welded is to be avoided. -- Chris |
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