cycling Sierra Nevadas

https://www.google.com/#q=best+mount...wns+in+america

if into MTB MTB MTB, an RV north south north south seasonal...is best for a few years.

one would notice J is presently in a highly rated MTB area.

a lot can be written abt Utah...mostly negating the desire to live there.

On 2016-06-21 13:45, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 1:08:58 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-21 11:56, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 9:59:51 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-21 09:20, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 7:38:22 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-21 07:30, wrote:

https://goo.gl/ZyQCtf


Yeah, it's almost paradise out here. There aren't many
places where you get to enjoy vistas like this on the trail
from Lotus to Folsom and they can only be reached via MTB,
hiking or some on horseback:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/...ronanTrail.JPG

Thinking about whether moving to the St.George area (Utah)
would make sense. A friend with similar ideas just scoped
that out last week and I'll get to ask him about it on a
ride this week. Their MTB trails are better but AFAICT
roads have little to no bicycle infrastructure and I
wouldn't like that.

Most roads have little to no bicycle infrastructure -- at
least the roads in rural America. I don't know why you think
St. George would be any different. It's not the Netherlands.


In our area (near Sacramento, CA) many roads do have a bicycle
infrastructure and this includes rural ones. Whenever a road
section is widened or restored from the ground up they put in
bike lanes. Must be some kind of law. For example, I use this
road a lot and since they provided wide enough shoulders and
bike lanes the number of cyclists there has substantially
increased, including longhaul commuters:

https://goo.gl/maps/zL1zGuAvTwN2

This is also the road where, further down towards Folsom, a
cyclist was killed in the lane. Now there are bike lanes at
that four-lane stretch and she would still be alive had they
been in back then.

Unfortunately that sometimes leads to a row of orphaned bike
lanes but that is still better than nothing.

Long story short I prefer areas that are not a step back WRT
ease and safety of bicycling versus where we live now. For me
that's not just MTB trails but I also want to be able to handle
errands by bike like I do now. I prefer not to have to ride in
the lane a lot for that.


Dude, get a spine.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...y_limits_1.jpg




Piece of cake, that sort of road I'd take any day and I do that a lot
here. This, OTOH, is absolutely not cool:

https://goo.gl/maps/tDXgBjBivPn


Why would you ever be on UT-59 or go to Colorado City? Are you FLDS?


No, I am a Lutheran. I want to have the freedom to go places without
having to use the car. For example, to give classes at the Mohave
College there or whatever. In the same way you could ask me "Why do you
need to ride to Placerville?" which is only possible with an MTB and
hard on the bike. Answer: Because I want to.


AFAIK it is the only connection between Hurricane and Colorado
City. I would not want to live in a big city like St.George but
rather in Hurricane next door.

If you move to Hur-a-kin, you are in for some serious culture shock
(although not as much as Colorado City). Don't go looking for any
brew pubs or growler stations -- and don't expect any sympathy about
the lack of bike lanes. Once off the main drag and away from the
tourist traffic headed to Zion, life in small-town southern Utah is,
well, unique. Rent before you buy.


My main concern is the bicycle infrastructure. If it ain't there I ain't
comin'. Other than that there's breweries:

http://www.zionbrewery.com/

Not much farther than our local breweries here. The problem is the
roads. Green Valley Road out here now has wide enough shoulders and
sometimes bike lanes. Zion Park Road in Utah mostly does not. If there
is an alternate MTB route that would be perfectly ok no matter how rough
but I don't know that (yet). This is why I have a stainless steel growler.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 6/22/2016 10:38 AM, Joerg wrote:


My main concern is the bicycle infrastructure. If it ain't there I ain't
comin'.

Then, in my experience, you're missing almost all of the best bicycling
territory in the U.S.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2016-06-22 08:08, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/22/2016 10:38 AM, Joerg wrote:


My main concern is the bicycle infrastructure. If it ain't there I ain't
comin'.

Then, in my experience, you're missing almost all of the best bicycling
territory in the U.S.


Everyone has a different opinion about what "best" means. I have never
enjoyed and likely will never enjoy cycling on roads where there is the
constant din and smell of internal combustion engines. For me, a
combination of nice MTB trails and good cycling infrastructure is
"best". Our region comes very close to that ideal, with the exception of
a lack of bike paths and lanes in the immediate vicinity but 10mi east
that all changes for the better.

Not surprisingly the vast majority (almost all) cyclists I know think
the same way. Actually more extreme because they often try to convince
me to truck the MTBs to a trail access point while I try to convince
them to ride to those places on the MTBs. I don't mind having to swallow
a few miles of road as long as there is a reward later in the form of a
nice trail. Plus, of course, ideally also a brewpub.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2016-06-22 09:28, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-22 08:08, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/22/2016 10:38 AM, Joerg wrote:


My main concern is the bicycle infrastructure. If it ain't there I ain't
comin'.

Then, in my experience, you're missing almost all of the best bicycling
territory in the U.S.


Everyone has a different opinion about what "best" means. I have never
enjoyed and likely will never enjoy cycling on roads where there is the
constant din and smell of internal combustion engines. For me, a
combination of nice MTB trails and good cycling infrastructure is
"best". Our region comes very close to that ideal, with the exception of
a lack of bike paths and lanes in the immediate vicinity but 10mi east
that all changes for the better.


I meant 10mi west.


Not surprisingly the vast majority (almost all) cyclists I know think
the same way. Actually more extreme because they often try to convince
me to truck the MTBs to a trail access point while I try to convince
them to ride to those places on the MTBs. I don't mind having to swallow
a few miles of road as long as there is a reward later in the form of a
nice trail. Plus, of course, ideally also a brewpub.



--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 7:19:31 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-21 06:20, AMuzi wrote:
http://ktla.com/2016/06/20/mountain-...ught-on-video/


A literal case of hit and run :-)

There are some people in this NG who won't believe things like that. I
never saw a bear on my MTB but had a close call with a buck (of the mule
deer species). He rudely cut me off from behind at a 45 degree angle,
didn't even look at me and then just kept running. If it weren't for
hydraulic disc brakes we'd have crashed into each other.

I was riding down a downhill road near a county park. There was a dirt parking area and a cross-walk painted on the street. There were no people visible so I was on it pretty hard and hitting 40 mph. Suddenly a herd of deer ran across and as I approached the very large Mule Deer buck turned towards me and dropped his horns apparently to protect his does.

There was no way I was going to stop in time but luckily the last deer crossed behind the buck and I passed to the right of them all.

But every single time I come down that way you can be sure I'm ultra watchful though I've never seen another deer there let alone a herd. And the asphalt is in such condition there now that doing 25 is pushing it.

On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 9:59:51 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-21 09:20, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 7:38:22 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-21 07:30, wrote:

https://goo.gl/ZyQCtf


Yeah, it's almost paradise out here. There aren't many places where
you get to enjoy vistas like this on the trail from Lotus to Folsom
and they can only be reached via MTB, hiking or some on horseback:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/...ronanTrail.JPG

Thinking about whether moving to the St.George area (Utah) would
make sense. A friend with similar ideas just scoped that out last
week and I'll get to ask him about it on a ride this week. Their
MTB trails are better but AFAICT roads have little to no bicycle
infrastructure and I wouldn't like that.

Most roads have little to no bicycle infrastructure -- at least the
roads in rural America. I don't know why you think St. George would
be any different. It's not the Netherlands.


In our area (near Sacramento, CA) many roads do have a bicycle
infrastructure and this includes rural ones. Whenever a road section is
widened or restored from the ground up they put in bike lanes. Must be
some kind of law. For example, I use this road a lot and since they
provided wide enough shoulders and bike lanes the number of cyclists
there has substantially increased, including longhaul commuters:

The Federal government supplies funding for road work if they include bicycle facilities. That's why they're showing up even in dumpy little towns that you'd never expect.

On Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 7:38:17 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-21 13:45, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 1:08:58 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-21 11:56, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 9:59:51 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-21 09:20, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 7:38:22 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-21 07:30, wrote:

https://goo.gl/ZyQCtf


Yeah, it's almost paradise out here. There aren't many
places where you get to enjoy vistas like this on the trail
from Lotus to Folsom and they can only be reached via MTB,
hiking or some on horseback:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/...ronanTrail.JPG

Thinking about whether moving to the St.George area (Utah)
would make sense. A friend with similar ideas just scoped
that out last week and I'll get to ask him about it on a
ride this week. Their MTB trails are better but AFAICT
roads have little to no bicycle infrastructure and I
wouldn't like that.

Most roads have little to no bicycle infrastructure -- at
least the roads in rural America. I don't know why you think
St. George would be any different. It's not the Netherlands.


In our area (near Sacramento, CA) many roads do have a bicycle
infrastructure and this includes rural ones. Whenever a road
section is widened or restored from the ground up they put in
bike lanes. Must be some kind of law. For example, I use this
road a lot and since they provided wide enough shoulders and
bike lanes the number of cyclists there has substantially
increased, including longhaul commuters:

https://goo.gl/maps/zL1zGuAvTwN2

This is also the road where, further down towards Folsom, a
cyclist was killed in the lane. Now there are bike lanes at
that four-lane stretch and she would still be alive had they
been in back then.

Unfortunately that sometimes leads to a row of orphaned bike
lanes but that is still better than nothing.

Long story short I prefer areas that are not a step back WRT
ease and safety of bicycling versus where we live now. For me
that's not just MTB trails but I also want to be able to handle
errands by bike like I do now. I prefer not to have to ride in
the lane a lot for that.


Dude, get a spine.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...y_limits_1.jpg




Piece of cake, that sort of road I'd take any day and I do that a lot
here. This, OTOH, is absolutely not cool:

https://goo.gl/maps/tDXgBjBivPn


Why would you ever be on UT-59 or go to Colorado City? Are you FLDS?


No, I am a Lutheran. I want to have the freedom to go places without
having to use the car. For example, to give classes at the Mohave
College there or whatever. In the same way you could ask me "Why do you
need to ride to Placerville?" which is only possible with an MTB and
hard on the bike. Answer: Because I want to.


AFAIK it is the only connection between Hurricane and Colorado
City. I would not want to live in a big city like St.George but
rather in Hurricane next door.

If you move to Hur-a-kin, you are in for some serious culture shock
(although not as much as Colorado City). Don't go looking for any
brew pubs or growler stations -- and don't expect any sympathy about
the lack of bike lanes. Once off the main drag and away from the
tourist traffic headed to Zion, life in small-town southern Utah is,
well, unique. Rent before you buy.


My main concern is the bicycle infrastructure. If it ain't there I ain't
comin'. Other than that there's breweries:

http://www.zionbrewery.com/

Not much farther than our local breweries here. The problem is the
roads. Green Valley Road out here now has wide enough shoulders and
sometimes bike lanes. Zion Park Road in Utah mostly does not. If there
is an alternate MTB route that would be perfectly ok no matter how rough
but I don't know that (yet). This is why I have a stainless steel growler.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

The cost of homes in St. George is high as is the property taxes.

On Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 7:38:17 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-21 13:45, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 1:08:58 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-21 11:56, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 9:59:51 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-21 09:20, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 7:38:22 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-21 07:30, wrote:

https://goo.gl/ZyQCtf


Yeah, it's almost paradise out here. There aren't many
places where you get to enjoy vistas like this on the trail
from Lotus to Folsom and they can only be reached via MTB,
hiking or some on horseback:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/...ronanTrail.JPG

Thinking about whether moving to the St.George area (Utah)
would make sense. A friend with similar ideas just scoped
that out last week and I'll get to ask him about it on a
ride this week. Their MTB trails are better but AFAICT
roads have little to no bicycle infrastructure and I
wouldn't like that.

Most roads have little to no bicycle infrastructure -- at
least the roads in rural America. I don't know why you think
St. George would be any different. It's not the Netherlands.


In our area (near Sacramento, CA) many roads do have a bicycle
infrastructure and this includes rural ones. Whenever a road
section is widened or restored from the ground up they put in
bike lanes. Must be some kind of law. For example, I use this
road a lot and since they provided wide enough shoulders and
bike lanes the number of cyclists there has substantially
increased, including longhaul commuters:

https://goo.gl/maps/zL1zGuAvTwN2

This is also the road where, further down towards Folsom, a
cyclist was killed in the lane. Now there are bike lanes at
that four-lane stretch and she would still be alive had they
been in back then.

Unfortunately that sometimes leads to a row of orphaned bike
lanes but that is still better than nothing.

Long story short I prefer areas that are not a step back WRT
ease and safety of bicycling versus where we live now. For me
that's not just MTB trails but I also want to be able to handle
errands by bike like I do now. I prefer not to have to ride in
the lane a lot for that.


Dude, get a spine.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...y_limits_1.jpg




Piece of cake, that sort of road I'd take any day and I do that a lot
here. This, OTOH, is absolutely not cool:

https://goo.gl/maps/tDXgBjBivPn


Why would you ever be on UT-59 or go to Colorado City? Are you FLDS?


No, I am a Lutheran. I want to have the freedom to go places without
having to use the car. For example, to give classes at the Mohave
College there or whatever. In the same way you could ask me "Why do you
need to ride to Placerville?" which is only possible with an MTB and
hard on the bike. Answer: Because I want to.

UT-59 is rideable. It is not a restricted, car-only road. https://www.udot..utah.gov/main/ucon...00404201454221 It may not be to your taste, but that's another matter.



AFAIK it is the only connection between Hurricane and Colorado
City. I would not want to live in a big city like St.George but
rather in Hurricane next door.

If you move to Hur-a-kin, you are in for some serious culture shock
(although not as much as Colorado City). Don't go looking for any
brew pubs or growler stations -- and don't expect any sympathy about
the lack of bike lanes. Once off the main drag and away from the
tourist traffic headed to Zion, life in small-town southern Utah is,
well, unique. Rent before you buy.


My main concern is the bicycle infrastructure. If it ain't there I ain't
comin'. Other than that there's breweries:

http://www.zionbrewery.com/

Not much farther than our local breweries here. The problem is the
roads. Green Valley Road out here now has wide enough shoulders and
sometimes bike lanes. Zion Park Road in Utah mostly does not. If there
is an alternate MTB route that would be perfectly ok no matter how rough
but I don't know that (yet). This is why I have a stainless steel growler..

Really? It's quite a way from St. George and still a hop from Hur-a-kin (my son makes fun of the local pronunciation -- that and "Tooele.") Long way to ride for a beer, and you assume they can fill growlers -- a wrong assumption for any beer over 4 percent ABV. Above that limit, you have to purchase the beer "pre-packaged," viz., not in your own growler -- and must be beer made onsite. That's my understand, but I'll confirm it when I'm in SLC in August -- getting my ass kicked up a bunch of 5-6,000 foot climbs in 100 degree heat. Time to start doping.

I've ridden on Zion Park Road and all through Zion, mostly. Beware of the shuttle buses and not being able to ride through the Zion-Mt. Carmel Tunnel. There are some tough grades, too. I didn't see any bicycles with skeletons by the side of the road. No mountain lions. You'll live. You might want to consider changing your name to "Elder Joerg" if you relocate to any seriously small town in southern Utah.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 6/22/2016 12:28 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-22 08:08, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/22/2016 10:38 AM, Joerg wrote:


My main concern is the bicycle infrastructure. If it ain't there I ain't
comin'.

Then, in my experience, you're missing almost all of the best bicycling
territory in the U.S.


Everyone has a different opinion about what "best" means. I have never
enjoyed and likely will never enjoy cycling on roads where there is the
constant din and smell of internal combustion engines. For me, a
combination of nice MTB trails and good cycling infrastructure is
"best". Our region comes very close to that ideal, with the exception of
a lack of bike paths and lanes in the immediate vicinity but 10mi east
that all changes for the better.

Not surprisingly the vast majority (almost all) cyclists I know think
the same way.

If your only choices are between trails (MTB or MUP) and roads with
constant traffic, perhaps you live in the wrong area.

In the rural areas of the midwest, there are hundreds of small two-lane
roads, with alternative choices frequently closer than a mile apart.
The state highways among those will have some traffic, but even those
are often far quieter than your "constant din and smell."

Example: I led a 40 mile club ride Saturday despite being sick. Since
I wasn't feeling well, I re-routed from five miles on a very quiet but
hilly road to a flat, parallel state route. I'd estimate we got passed
by maybe 30 cars. Oh, and two big trucks, with both truckers waiting
patiently until there was room to pass in the opposing lane.

Most of the rest of the ride was on beautiful, small-scale roads,
including two that passed through the middle of farm yards. On some
roads, there might be one car passing us every three miles or so.

It's not all that way, of course; and I'm competent and comfortable on
busier roads. But I wander and seek out such quiet roads for recreation
rides, and there are literally hundreds in my riding territory.

--
- Frank Krygowski