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bike shedding most boring trend



 
 
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  #21  
Old January 27th 18, 08:31 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ian Field
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 249
Default bike shedding most boring trend



"AMuzi" wrote in message
news
On 1/26/2018 2:21 PM, Ian Field wrote:


"Ralph Barone" wrote in message
news
Ian Field wrote:


"Emanuel Berg" wrote in message
...
Here Is the BMC Teammachine SLR01 Disc [1]
which is an example of what I have seen many
times now in the "cycling press", and that is
to have the frame in one (and only one) bright
color, and then everything else in gray or most
often black!

Very ugly IMO. Black is the most boring and
depressing color which is why kids are afraid
of the dark and people wear black at funerals.

Motorcycle accident statistics hint that a black
motorcycle with rider in
black leathers is less likely to get a SMIDSY.

Cant remember having seen a black bicycle - so there
probably isn't any
data.



Sure, if the leathers have "Hell's Angels" emblazoned
across the back,
otherwise I'm not so sure about that factoid.


You've probably nailed it - but a motorcyclist can be
adequately sinister without being a member of anything.

Safety in numbers doesn't always work either - there are
clips of motorcyclists out on a run getting rammed by some
nutter in a SUV.


or a group of bicyclists under a pickup:
http://www.wzzm13.com/news/local/kal...ists/235907309

or a rental box truck:
https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...icle-1.3602094

One of our customers, an old friend, was riding just in front of that
mayhem, inches from death. The tourist he had just passed was killed.


I suspect motorcyclists probably get more attempted or actual murder, but
there's clips out there of cyclists being deliberately run down.

Both get mostly general ****wittery on the part of drivers.

Ads
  #22  
Old January 28th 18, 01:09 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,967
Default bike shedding most boring trend

On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 14:34:42 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 1/27/2018 12:56 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
AMuzi wrote:

One of our customers, an old friend, was
riding just in front of that mayhem, inches
from death. The tourist he had just passed
was killed.


Cycling sure seem more violent in the US.
I don't know what the stats are.


Stats vary, but the U.S. risk is very frequently overstated.

Very roughly, U.S. cyclists suffer one fatality every 10 million miles
of riding. In Britain, it's closer to one fatality in 20 million miles.
In Germany, perhaps one per 50 million miles.

So yes, the U.S. is more dangerous. But it's really a comparison of one
negligible risk against another negligible risk. How long will it take
you to ride 10 million miles?

Also, those figures are grand averages. We've had posters here who have
bragged about riding drunk (or on LSD), riding with no lights at night,
using ramps to fly through the air as they enter intersections from
sidewalks, etc. Those nut cases are part of the grand average. Competent
riders should have much lower risks.

We also have many people who are too innumerate to understand the above
numbers, or to use them in context. It's not unusual to hear, when
giving evidence of negligible risk, "But what if that one person is
YOU??" (I've come across this not only with bicycling, but - believe it
or not - with the issue of risk from a tree falling when a person walks
in a forest! Danger!! Danger!!)

The fact is, people are very bad at evaluating a negligible risk of a
disastrous outcome. This is why so many are terrified of flying
commercial airlines.

In France,
I hear that in the process of getting a driver
license a not insignificant part is spent on
how to respond to cyclists sharing the road.


There are groups that are trying to improve that component of driving
education in America. I'm part of one such group.

But as I understand, it's much more difficult overall to get a driver's
license in Europe than in the U.S. Here, it really is astonishingly easy
- in fact, stupidly easy.


But regardless, bicycle deaths amount to about 2% of highway deaths.
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/pe...facts/bicycles

--
Cheers,

John B.

  #23  
Old January 28th 18, 02:21 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,893
Default bike shedding most boring trend

On 1/27/2018 8:09 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 14:34:42 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 1/27/2018 12:56 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
AMuzi wrote:

One of our customers, an old friend, was
riding just in front of that mayhem, inches
from death. The tourist he had just passed
was killed.

Cycling sure seem more violent in the US.
I don't know what the stats are.


Stats vary, but the U.S. risk is very frequently overstated.

Very roughly, U.S. cyclists suffer one fatality every 10 million miles
of riding. In Britain, it's closer to one fatality in 20 million miles.
In Germany, perhaps one per 50 million miles.

So yes, the U.S. is more dangerous. But it's really a comparison of one
negligible risk against another negligible risk. How long will it take
you to ride 10 million miles?

Also, those figures are grand averages. We've had posters here who have
bragged about riding drunk (or on LSD), riding with no lights at night,
using ramps to fly through the air as they enter intersections from
sidewalks, etc. Those nut cases are part of the grand average. Competent
riders should have much lower risks.

We also have many people who are too innumerate to understand the above
numbers, or to use them in context. It's not unusual to hear, when
giving evidence of negligible risk, "But what if that one person is
YOU??" (I've come across this not only with bicycling, but - believe it
or not - with the issue of risk from a tree falling when a person walks
in a forest! Danger!! Danger!!)

The fact is, people are very bad at evaluating a negligible risk of a
disastrous outcome. This is why so many are terrified of flying
commercial airlines.

In France,
I hear that in the process of getting a driver
license a not insignificant part is spent on
how to respond to cyclists sharing the road.


There are groups that are trying to improve that component of driving
education in America. I'm part of one such group.

But as I understand, it's much more difficult overall to get a driver's
license in Europe than in the U.S. Here, it really is astonishingly easy
- in fact, stupidly easy.


But regardless, bicycle deaths amount to about 2% of highway deaths.
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/pe...facts/bicycles


Yep. And from the same source: "Pedestrian motor vehicle crash deaths
have increased 46 percent since reaching their low point in 2009 and
account for 16 percent of crash fatalities."

Watch your step!


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #24  
Old January 28th 18, 03:05 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 829
Default bike shedding most boring trend

Frank Krygowski wrote:

But as I understand, it's much more difficult
overall to get a driver's license in Europe
than in the U.S. Here, it really is
astonishingly easy - in fact, stupidly easy.


It is "easy" here as well but it takes a long
time and if you don't have parents paying it is
very, very expensive. A burger flipper with no
support from his/her parent cannot do it.
If you don't have respect for burger flippers,
I wonder if a nurse can do it? I think not, or
if. that would require a very long-time and
determined effort. Some young people can pull
it off but many cannot and as many wouldn't
even dare try in that economic situation.

As for acid, if you think I'm posing, well I'll
take it, but nevertheless it is true:

The events of the first LSD trip, now known
as “Bicycle Day”, after the bicycle ride
home, proved to Hofmann that he had indeed
made a significant discovery:
a psychoactive substance with ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...d_diethylamide

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
  #25  
Old January 28th 18, 03:43 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 829
Default bike shedding most boring trend

This reminds me of a story from Edgar Snow - he
was an American writer, and there is no shame
not having read his books on the Chinese
Revolution, and more, even tho they are
excellent no doubt.

Anyway Snow once heard from Nehru that he,
Snow, wasn't ever going to understand either
China or India unless he learned how to stand
on his head.

Snow contemplated this metaphor until he met
Nehru face to face and they got themselves into
some tricky political matter. Suddenly Nehru
excused himself and walked to a nearby wall.
There, he flipped himself feet up, and blood
started to fill his head.

Only then did Snow understand it wasn't
a metaphor at all.

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
  #26  
Old January 28th 18, 05:03 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,967
Default bike shedding most boring trend

On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 21:21:51 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 1/27/2018 8:09 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 14:34:42 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 1/27/2018 12:56 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
AMuzi wrote:

One of our customers, an old friend, was
riding just in front of that mayhem, inches
from death. The tourist he had just passed
was killed.

Cycling sure seem more violent in the US.
I don't know what the stats are.

Stats vary, but the U.S. risk is very frequently overstated.

Very roughly, U.S. cyclists suffer one fatality every 10 million miles
of riding. In Britain, it's closer to one fatality in 20 million miles.
In Germany, perhaps one per 50 million miles.

So yes, the U.S. is more dangerous. But it's really a comparison of one
negligible risk against another negligible risk. How long will it take
you to ride 10 million miles?

Also, those figures are grand averages. We've had posters here who have
bragged about riding drunk (or on LSD), riding with no lights at night,
using ramps to fly through the air as they enter intersections from
sidewalks, etc. Those nut cases are part of the grand average. Competent
riders should have much lower risks.

We also have many people who are too innumerate to understand the above
numbers, or to use them in context. It's not unusual to hear, when
giving evidence of negligible risk, "But what if that one person is
YOU??" (I've come across this not only with bicycling, but - believe it
or not - with the issue of risk from a tree falling when a person walks
in a forest! Danger!! Danger!!)

The fact is, people are very bad at evaluating a negligible risk of a
disastrous outcome. This is why so many are terrified of flying
commercial airlines.

In France,
I hear that in the process of getting a driver
license a not insignificant part is spent on
how to respond to cyclists sharing the road.

There are groups that are trying to improve that component of driving
education in America. I'm part of one such group.

But as I understand, it's much more difficult overall to get a driver's
license in Europe than in the U.S. Here, it really is astonishingly easy
- in fact, stupidly easy.


But regardless, bicycle deaths amount to about 2% of highway deaths.
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/pe...facts/bicycles


Yep. And from the same source: "Pedestrian motor vehicle crash deaths
have increased 46 percent since reaching their low point in 2009 and
account for 16 percent of crash fatalities."

Watch your step!


In reality I suspect that the only politically acceptable of reducing
bicycle - auto crashes would be some sort of financial solution,
similar to the Thai system that "The big guy is wrong", which in
essence is a general traffic rule that subject to contrary evidence
the largest vehicle in the crash is deemed to be in the wrong. The
actual law is far more complex but in practice of one were to hit a
bicycle and kill the rider the auto would be responsible for all costs
- bicycle replacement or repair, all medical costs including
hospitalization and rehabilitation costs, etc., in the event of death
all funeral costs and so on.

A note here, A sister in law who was a collage level teacher had
funeral costs of 200,000 baht.... in an economy where minimum wages
are 30 baht a day.

Failure to agree with this would result in a criminal charge (causing
death by auto, or some such title) that WILL result in a prison
sentence - from reading the news apparently 3 - 5 years per death.

In U.S. terms something like an increase in driver's license fees or
maybe, as I believe that the U.S. has mandatory insurance, an increase
in insurance fees.

Initially this seems a bit unfair but the effect is to make larger
vehicles reluctant to hit a smaller one which does have a rather
dramatic effect of traffic.

A month or so I, solely through stupidity, I ran a stop light on a 4
lane intersection and found myself whizzing across four lanes of very
active traffic at about 30 kph. Cars were screeching their brakes to
avoid me.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #27  
Old January 28th 18, 05:35 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,893
Default bike shedding most boring trend

On 1/28/2018 12:03 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 21:21:51 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 1/27/2018 8:09 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 14:34:42 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 1/27/2018 12:56 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
AMuzi wrote:

One of our customers, an old friend, was
riding just in front of that mayhem, inches
from death. The tourist he had just passed
was killed.

Cycling sure seem more violent in the US.
I don't know what the stats are.

Stats vary, but the U.S. risk is very frequently overstated.

Very roughly, U.S. cyclists suffer one fatality every 10 million miles
of riding. In Britain, it's closer to one fatality in 20 million miles.
In Germany, perhaps one per 50 million miles.

So yes, the U.S. is more dangerous. But it's really a comparison of one
negligible risk against another negligible risk. How long will it take
you to ride 10 million miles?

Also, those figures are grand averages. We've had posters here who have
bragged about riding drunk (or on LSD), riding with no lights at night,
using ramps to fly through the air as they enter intersections from
sidewalks, etc. Those nut cases are part of the grand average. Competent
riders should have much lower risks.

We also have many people who are too innumerate to understand the above
numbers, or to use them in context. It's not unusual to hear, when
giving evidence of negligible risk, "But what if that one person is
YOU??" (I've come across this not only with bicycling, but - believe it
or not - with the issue of risk from a tree falling when a person walks
in a forest! Danger!! Danger!!)

The fact is, people are very bad at evaluating a negligible risk of a
disastrous outcome. This is why so many are terrified of flying
commercial airlines.

In France,
I hear that in the process of getting a driver
license a not insignificant part is spent on
how to respond to cyclists sharing the road.

There are groups that are trying to improve that component of driving
education in America. I'm part of one such group.

But as I understand, it's much more difficult overall to get a driver's
license in Europe than in the U.S. Here, it really is astonishingly easy
- in fact, stupidly easy.

But regardless, bicycle deaths amount to about 2% of highway deaths.
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/pe...facts/bicycles


Yep. And from the same source: "Pedestrian motor vehicle crash deaths
have increased 46 percent since reaching their low point in 2009 and
account for 16 percent of crash fatalities."

Watch your step!


In reality I suspect that the only politically acceptable of reducing
bicycle - auto crashes would be some sort of financial solution,
similar to the Thai system that "The big guy is wrong", which in
essence is a general traffic rule that subject to contrary evidence
the largest vehicle in the crash is deemed to be in the wrong. The
actual law is far more complex but in practice of one were to hit a
bicycle and kill the rider the auto would be responsible for all costs
- bicycle replacement or repair, all medical costs including
hospitalization and rehabilitation costs, etc., in the event of death
all funeral costs and so on.

A note here, A sister in law who was a collage level teacher had
funeral costs of 200,000 baht.... in an economy where minimum wages
are 30 baht a day.

Failure to agree with this would result in a criminal charge (causing
death by auto, or some such title) that WILL result in a prison
sentence - from reading the news apparently 3 - 5 years per death.

In U.S. terms something like an increase in driver's license fees or
maybe, as I believe that the U.S. has mandatory insurance, an increase
in insurance fees.

Initially this seems a bit unfair but the effect is to make larger
vehicles reluctant to hit a smaller one which does have a rather
dramatic effect of traffic.

A month or so I, solely through stupidity, I ran a stop light on a 4
lane intersection and found myself whizzing across four lanes of very
active traffic at about 30 kph. Cars were screeching their brakes to
avoid me.


And I agree with the concept. As I've mentioned before, we were staying
with (new) friends in Zurich, and they took us on a walking tour of the
city. At that time, they had just passed a "strict liability" law like
you describe. Our friends told us it absolutely transformed the
experience of walking (and IIRC bicycling) around the city.

Isn't one of our newer posters from there? Any comment?

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #28  
Old January 28th 18, 02:13 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,322
Default bike shedding most boring trend

Emanuel Berg wrote:
Duane wrote:

Having everything black, e.g.
equipment (very common for computer stuff
for example) is also detrimental as 1) you
get depressed just by looking at it, and 2)
it is (more) difficult to find the thing
you'd like if everything is the same color.


Sounds like a personal opinion.


Well, colors are emotional. Even as a boy
I loved colors. Isn't that pretty uncommon?
Try take LSD and ride your bike thru
a post-industrial area at night. That will be
colorful. Actually one can have almost the same
effect, at least with respect to the lights,
with this method. Take a hot shower with the
lights off for ~10m. Then take a cold shower
(with the controls to the max cold) for as long
as you endure. By swallowing water it will be
even colder. Then ride the bike after sunset.
Now the lights will look really cool, like oily
and flashy. And this effect lasts for hours!
(It'll be left as an exercise to figure out
how I discovered this method.)

Colors are a matter of taste yes but generally
speaking there are some general truths.

Black makes things look smaller and is
depressing, associated with death, fear, and
so on.

White isn't anything really but makes things
look bigger.

Red is associated with danger (from fire, and
blood perhaps as well).

Green is soothing. The human eye is best suited
to distinguish differences, nuances, in green -
maybe from evolution, looking for food in the
jungle? So it makes sense to have many shades
of green.

Functionally speaking, and many have an eye for
this which is also connected to the perception
of beauty, I think the direction should be not
to have different, adjacent things in the exact
same color. This looks wierd. This is why the
Swiss bike in the OP looks bad to me. It looks
like it is made out of two parts, like a toy or
something artificial, not the real thing.

What depresses me about computer equipment is
working when it's a nice riding day.
Not the color.


With computers the background should be black
to reduce the light that enters your eyes for
decoding. Everything else should be colorized
according to function to reduce "reading" and
increase "seeing":

http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/dumps/elisp.png


Right over your head...

--
duane
  #29  
Old January 28th 18, 03:34 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ned Mantei[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default bike shedding most boring trend

On 28-01-18 06:35, Frank Krygowski wrote:

And I agree with the concept. As I've mentioned before, we were staying
with (new) friends in Zurich, and they took us on a walking tour of the
city. At that time, they had just passed a "strict liability" law like
you describe. Our friends told us it absolutely transformed the
experience of walking (and IIRC bicycling) around the city.

Isn't one of our newer posters from there? Any comment?


That could be me...

I've been reading the local newspaper (Tages Anzeiger) everyday for
decades, and I don't remember ever seeing something like this. Maybe it
was a long time ago? In any event, I generally feel safe riding in
Zurich. The city has helped, for example by sometimes reserving the
sidewalk on one side of a street just for bicycles, by allowing bicycles
on small roads where otherwise non-resident traffic is forbidden, and by
establishing sensible bike lanes (wide enough to avoid the door zone).
Besides this, over the years I've worked out my own ways to get through
the city, mostly avoiding heavy traffic. I also signal for turns, stop
for red lights, and generally try to behave in a predictable way.

Another factor is that there are enough people on bicycles here that
drivers are used to seeing them. Years ago I went for a ride while
visiting Cincinnati, and had the impression that a lot of drivers had
never encountered a bicycle before. That seemed scary.


Ned
  #30  
Old January 28th 18, 03:45 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,444
Default bike shedding most boring trend

On 1/26/2018 11:54 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Duane wrote:

Having everything black, e.g.
equipment (very common for computer stuff
for example) is also detrimental as 1) you
get depressed just by looking at it, and 2)
it is (more) difficult to find the thing
you'd like if everything is the same color.


Sounds like a personal opinion.


Well, colors are emotional. Even as a boy
I loved colors. Isn't that pretty uncommon?
Try take LSD and ride your bike thru
a post-industrial area at night. That will be
colorful. Actually one can have almost the same
effect, at least with respect to the lights,
with this method. Take a hot shower with the
lights off for ~10m. Then take a cold shower
(with the controls to the max cold) for as long
as you endure. By swallowing water it will be
even colder. Then ride the bike after sunset.
Now the lights will look really cool, like oily
and flashy. And this effect lasts for hours!
(It'll be left as an exercise to figure out
how I discovered this method.)

Colors are a matter of taste yes but generally
speaking there are some general truths.

Black makes things look smaller and is
depressing, associated with death, fear, and
so on.

White isn't anything really but makes things
look bigger.

Red is associated with danger (from fire, and
blood perhaps as well).

Green is soothing. The human eye is best suited
to distinguish differences, nuances, in green -
maybe from evolution, looking for food in the
jungle? So it makes sense to have many shades
of green.

Functionally speaking, and many have an eye for
this which is also connected to the perception
of beauty, I think the direction should be not
to have different, adjacent things in the exact
same color. This looks wierd. This is why the
Swiss bike in the OP looks bad to me. It looks
like it is made out of two parts, like a toy or
something artificial, not the real thing.

What depresses me about computer equipment is
working when it's a nice riding day.
Not the color.


With computers the background should be black
to reduce the light that enters your eyes for
decoding. Everything else should be colorized
according to function to reduce "reading" and
increase "seeing":

http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/dumps/elisp.png



What about a bright blue/yellow Svensk flag colored bicycle?
Oughta be safe right?

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.3782185

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


 




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