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#141
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Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On 2/14/2018 12:15 PM, jbeattie wrote:
I wear a styrofoam hat; I wear high-viz sometimes, and I use a bunch of different lights -- and even a DRL when its overcast or raining. So, I'm already half-way to believing. But when a study involving the safety benefits of a lame little hub-level blinky shows that it reduces solo daytime accidents by over 25%, that doesn't pass the smell test. Does the light improve wet-road grip? Braking power? Attention? Maybe the riders are just more vigilant being in a study group. I'm more vigilant when I know I'm being studied, particularly when I'm being studied by a cop. You have to understand the difference between causation and correlation. But there are legitimate reasons why solo accident rates also fall. Read page 169 of https://books.google.com.au/books?id=LvthAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA168&hl The key thing is to use accurate research, with control groups, even if they can't be double-blind perfect studies. I have no personal or financial interest in promoting any agenda, I just would like cyclists to believe accurate research and choose to take reasonable steps to increase safety. OTOH, Frank loves to promote fake "studies" while dismissing peer-reviewed studies that don't happen to support his agenda. He doesn't realize that this approach doesn't help his agenda because no one takes those fake studies seriously. |
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#142
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Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On 2/14/2018 10:11 AM, jbeattie wrote:
Jan Heine thinks you should wear ninja outfits to hide from the cars. https://janheine.wordpress.com/2014/...rget-fixation/ He rides fat tires and knows everything, so that's what I'm going to do. From the comments on that article: "My former commute of 6 years involved a 5% climb for a mile on a narrow lane with no shoulder and not enough room for car drivers to pass when there was oncoming traffic. Over the years my lights have changed. I’ve had everything from one $5 taillight to 2 Superflashes (usually used in flashing mode) to a wide dynamo taillight. I was surprised any time I switched lights that drivers didn’t behave any differently. Regardless of lights, I found that they passed safer and more cautiously when I started riding ~3ft from the curb, rather than 1ft. They saw me, and would have to wait patiently if there was oncoming traffic before passing." -- - Frank Krygowski |
#143
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Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On 2/14/2018 4:45 PM, sms wrote:
Frank loves to promote fake "studies" while dismissing peer-reviewed studies that don't happen to support his agenda. So many accusations. So few examples. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#144
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Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 07:11:23 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote: On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 2:08:10 AM UTC-8, John B. wrote: On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 00:43:14 -0800, sms wrote: On 2/13/2018 1:10 PM, jbeattie wrote: When it comes to DRLs, correlation is about all we have. I haven't seen a single study where are driver claimed he or she saw a bicyclist and avoided an accident during daylight hours because of a light. LOL, you're sounding like the people that think that there are entities running around funding every possible double-blind study. They are very good at trying to promote doubt with every study that proves something that doesn't fit their agenda. It's not just the Odense study on DRLs, it's also all the studies on motorcycle headlights, both steady and modulated. You don't view a study that was 100% financed and supported by Reelight that. strangely enough, proved that using the Reelight magnet powered light was Good! Good! Good! is just a tiny bit suspect? Probably not as it supports YOUR assertions that bright lights make Bikes safe. But I suspect that you never actually read the study, did you? After all Reelight seems to be strangely reticent in announcing the power of their lights. They only describe it as " a smart little bike light with bright clear illumination". But One does wonder how powerful a tiny little one LED lamp powered by a magnet attached to the spokes really is? Strange that someone who advocates large powerful bicycle lights would be a proponent of such a tiny little light. A tiny little one LED lamp that reduces the number of SOLO accidents by over one-quarter. Moreover, the benefits were greatest during the day and not at twilight or even night -- which is odd. You look at these studies and really wonder how valid they are. Not that a DRL is a bad thing, but again, during bright daylight, I see clothes long before lights. Jan Heine thinks you should wear ninja outfits to hide from the cars. https://janheine.wordpress.com/2014/...rget-fixation/ He rides fat tires and knows everything, so that's what I'm going to do. -- Jay Beattie. Given that it was a study carried out in a "collage town", with a large percent of the students participating and a great deal of publicity in the town about the study it is very possible that the study did result in a reduction in accidents. At least for the period of the study. -- Cheers, John B. |
#145
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Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 19:55:17 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 2/14/2018 10:11 AM, jbeattie wrote: Jan Heine thinks you should wear ninja outfits to hide from the cars. https://janheine.wordpress.com/2014/...rget-fixation/ He rides fat tires and knows everything, so that's what I'm going to do. From the comments on that article: "My former commute of 6 years involved a 5% climb for a mile on a narrow lane with no shoulder and not enough room for car drivers to pass when there was oncoming traffic. Over the years my lights have changed. I’ve had everything from one $5 taillight to 2 Superflashes (usually used in flashing mode) to a wide dynamo taillight. I was surprised any time I switched lights that drivers didn’t behave any differently. Regardless of lights, I found that they passed safer and more cautiously when I started riding ~3ft from the curb, rather than 1ft. They saw me, and would have to wait patiently if there was oncoming traffic before passing." This parallels my experience with "bicycle lights". Since the discussions started here I've tried a number of, lights on, lights off, lights flashing, lights steady, front lights, rear lights, front and rear lights, combinations, and to date I have detected no effect on traffic that can be attributed to bicycle lights. Passing, at least here, in the city, is very much a matter of traffic speed. If traffic is really heavy you will get cars and motorcycles that will creep up almost touching you at a stoplight while if traffic is flowing freely at say 50 kph passing space is much wider. -- Cheers, John B. |
#146
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Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 12:55:08 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 2/14/2018 5:08 AM, John B. wrote: On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 00:43:14 -0800, sms wrote: On 2/13/2018 1:10 PM, jbeattie wrote: When it comes to DRLs, correlation is about all we have. I haven't seen a single study where are driver claimed he or she saw a bicyclist and avoided an accident during daylight hours because of a light. LOL, you're sounding like the people that think that there are entities running around funding every possible double-blind study. They are very good at trying to promote doubt with every study that proves something that doesn't fit their agenda. It's not just the Odense study on DRLs, it's also all the studies on motorcycle headlights, both steady and modulated. You don't view a study that was 100% financed and supported by Reelight that. strangely enough, proved that using the Reelight magnet powered light was Good! Good! Good! is just a tiny bit suspect? Probably not as it supports YOUR assertions that bright lights make Bikes safe. But I suspect that you never actually read the study, did you? After all Reelight seems to be strangely reticent in announcing the power of their lights. They only describe it as " a smart little bike light with bright clear illumination". But One does wonder how powerful a tiny little one LED lamp powered by a magnet attached to the spokes really is? Strange that someone who advocates large powerful bicycle lights would be a proponent of such a tiny little light. It's also laughable that Scharf (AKA "sms") has spent years telling us that dynamo lights are totally inadequate. But he sings the praises of a tiny light that blinks on only when a spoke magnet passes its little pickup coil. Ah but Scharf has become a politician, and everyone knows about politicians.... -- Cheers, John B. |
#147
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Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 6:30:19 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 12:55:08 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/14/2018 5:08 AM, John B. wrote: On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 00:43:14 -0800, sms wrote: On 2/13/2018 1:10 PM, jbeattie wrote: When it comes to DRLs, correlation is about all we have. I haven't seen a single study where are driver claimed he or she saw a bicyclist and avoided an accident during daylight hours because of a light. LOL, you're sounding like the people that think that there are entities running around funding every possible double-blind study. They are very good at trying to promote doubt with every study that proves something that doesn't fit their agenda. It's not just the Odense study on DRLs, it's also all the studies on motorcycle headlights, both steady and modulated. You don't view a study that was 100% financed and supported by Reelight that. strangely enough, proved that using the Reelight magnet powered light was Good! Good! Good! is just a tiny bit suspect? Probably not as it supports YOUR assertions that bright lights make Bikes safe. But I suspect that you never actually read the study, did you? After all Reelight seems to be strangely reticent in announcing the power of their lights. They only describe it as " a smart little bike light with bright clear illumination". But One does wonder how powerful a tiny little one LED lamp powered by a magnet attached to the spokes really is? Strange that someone who advocates large powerful bicycle lights would be a proponent of such a tiny little light. It's also laughable that Scharf (AKA "sms") has spent years telling us that dynamo lights are totally inadequate. But he sings the praises of a tiny light that blinks on only when a spoke magnet passes its little pickup coil. Ah but Scharf has become a politician, and everyone knows about politicians.... -- Cheers, John B. Now, now. Steven should be congratulated for his public service. More people need to be involved in public service. However, I still think DRLs in sunny California are dopey. -- Jay Beattie. |
#148
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Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/14/2018 4:45 PM, sms wrote: Frank loves to promote fake "studies" while dismissing peer-reviewed studies that don't happen to support his agenda. So many accusations. So few examples. The unScharf was projecting. Bull****ters who express brightness or conspicuity in lumens or watts input might have visited consumer electronics expositions, but have not been reading any studies. -- Never attribute to rhetoric that which is more adequately explained in clinical handbooks. https://media.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/AAEAAQAAAAAAAAM9AAAAJDJhZTkwMjFmLTVlZDMtNDNiMC1iZW Q2LThkZDgyNWVkYzcwNA.jpg |
#149
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Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On 2/14/2018 9:14 PM, jbeattie wrote:
snip Now, now. Steven should be congratulated for his public service. More people need to be involved in public service. However, I still think DRLs in sunny California are dopey. It's in sunny areas where they are most necessary. In non-sunny areas people are already using lights in the daytime. And of course the necessary brightness of a DRL, which is used solely as a "being seen" light, is much lower than what is needed to see the road at night. You can learn more at https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/daytime_running_lights/. Of course we will soon see claims that this is all self-interest by Trek, whose sole aim is to sell more lights. |
#150
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Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries
On 2/15/2018 1:04 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/14/2018 4:45 PM, sms wrote: Frank loves to promote fake "studies" while dismissing peer-reviewed studies that don't happen to support his agenda. So many accusations. So few examples. The unScharf was projecting. Bull****ters who express brightness or conspicuity in lumens or watts input might have visited consumer electronics expositions, but have not been reading any studies. LOL, in the days of incandescent lights, watts had some validity as a means of comparison, but not any more, so you should not promote that idea. As LEDs have evolved, lumens per watt has increased, so watts are irrelevant unless the lights being compared use the same LEDs and driver circuits.. However lumens are a valid, if imperfect, unit to use, which is why most light manufacturers now rate their products in lumens rather than watts. Lumens measure how much light is emitted by a source. What many people don't understand, when comparing bicycle lights, is how critically important the optics are, and the compromises, with optics, that must be made with low-output lights. A manufacturer of a light with a low lumen source, will use optics that concentrate the limited number of lumens into a very small area, and use Lux as their unit of measure as a means of obfuscation. This is what you see with the lower power dynamo lights. The manufacturers of the higher-end dynamo lights, with superior optics, don't play the lux game, and they'll tell you the lumen output, at different speeds, for different dynamos. For example, the Exposure Revo Dynamo Light is very specific: 800 lumens, at 15 MPH, with the Exposure dynamo (which is almost certainly a re-labled SP dynamo, see http://oi64.tinypic.com/2ujr0k5.jpg). The SP dynamos have become the defacto dynamo choice for those wanting the highest output from they dynamo lights. Of course all the data in the world won't change the opinion of someone who makes up their mind based on emotion rather than on data. |
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