The one thing that couldn't go wrong, did go wrong.

Rick wrote:
Spreading a steel frame a few mm should be fine.

If it was a beater or a new bike, I'd consider it good exercise.

But this is my Holdsworth.

One slip, and 22 years of history, maybe 40k miles, dumped
on the junk-heap.

I'd rather find a solution that narrows the rear axle.

I talked to a wrench at the Supergo. He said to check for
spacers, and maybe Neuvation would have axels for slimmer
spacings (I remeasured; it's really 126 mm...amazing
how just 2 mm of flex per stay is near impossible to get
without some permanent bending...)

I'll even go down to an 8-speed or 7-speed rear setup, if
that's what I need to do. The 9-speed will be really close
against the right lug, and my not clear the chainstay,
which doesn't have the ogee that newer frames have. Though
the lug is pretty long, so maybe the clearance will only be
a problem during installation.

But to keep the wheel centered without causing severe
dishing problems I might have to lose a cog. No biggie.
The hard part would be losing the right cog. I could
lose the 12T, but I'd rather lose the 25T, but of course
it's pinned to the 23T and 21T, for no really good reason.

The bigger problem you need to worry about are your brakes. You are
moving from a 27" (630mm rim) to a 700c (622mm rim). Your braking
surfaces will be 4mm further out. Can you brakes reach that additional
4mm? That is usually the biggest issue converting old frames like
that.

I saw that coming months before I even decided to change
wheelsets. The calipers did have an extra 4 mm of float
left in them, so it was merely an adjustment. I've left
the new front wheel on and test-ridden it around the
cul-de-sac. Once the pads get used to the new surface,
it'll be just fine.

I also put on the new chain, and if anything it shifts
cleaner than the old one. I don't know if it's as strong,
being a narrower 9-speed, and it uses the SRAM split-link
connector, which looks a bit flimsy.

--Blair
"Maybe if I ground 4 mm out of the lugs..."

41 wrote:
Blair P. Houghton wrote:
Maybe the new chain will work. It has a split link, so I
can afford to try it. It might slip between the cogs,
though. And I'll need to lube it, if not strip and lube

If the chain is new it has already been lubricated at the factory,
likely better than you would do it. Just mount it as is, at most wipe
off some of the excess with a rag, and go.g

The factory "lube" was stickier than any chain lube I've
ever seen.

It's a SRAM, if that tells you anything about what they
might have put on it.

Too bad I didn't read your recommendation, because I've already
stripped it off. It was impervious to an orange-oil degreaser,
so I had to break out the petroleum distillates.

I'm riding Saturday.

I'll either wax it Friday, or try out the 80W-90 Gear Oil
I got for my motorcycle chain, just to see what it does.

I can always clean it again.

--Blair
"Life is what happens while
you're busy making other plans
from the vantage point of your
bicycle seat."

Andrew Muzi writes:

I got my new wheels.

The new rear hub is 130 mm wide.

Turns out I'd mis-measured my rear stays and they're only 124 mm.
The frame is made of steel. It's reinforced by the brake mount, so
it doesn't flex much the way I need it to. No way am I bending
this frame, and I really don't want to have anyone else do it
either. So I'm kinda screwed at this point. I can't put this
wheel on this frame. The front fits fine.

Lay your frame without wheel flat on the ground. Put your foot on
the frame end. Lift the other one with both hands until it stays at
130mm. Go ride. Sometime when it's convenient, have the alignment
checked.

Let me add to that to place your foot at the brake bridge of the side
on the floor and pull up on the dropout that is upward with care,
noting when spacing has increased by about half the distance. Then
repeat on the other side. Overshoot isn't good.

At this point the dropouts are no longer parallel (if they ever were)
but the angle is smaller than you want to know about.

Jobst Brandt

Blair P. Houghton wrote:
41 wrote:

If the chain is new it has already been lubricated at the factory,
likely better than you would do it. Just mount it as is, at most wipe
off some of the excess with a rag, and go.g

The factory "lube" was stickier than any chain lube I've
ever seen.

It's a SRAM, if that tells you anything about what they
might have put on it.

Yes, that's the brand I use. The lubrication is perfect.

The reason chainlubes you buy are not so thick is because you couldn't
get them in to where they are needed if they were. The chain
manufacturer can get it in at the time of assembly, and so can make it
ideal.

Too bad I didn't read your recommendation, because I've already
stripped it off. It was impervious to an orange-oil degreaser,
so I had to break out the petroleum distillates.

As you can see this is why it is so good. If it takes that much to get
it off, it won't wash off easily in the rain either.

Well, now that you 've worked so hard to get it off, use the
heavyweight gear oil as you suggested. Just be sure to wipe off the
excess thoroughly or your drivetrain will be throwing the stuff off for
too long.

How about this one... Buy a new bike.
6 speed freewheels were common equipment like what, 15 years ago? Face
it dude, you're due. Instead, you dropped coin on cheap carbon wheels
that still cost a bit, cogs chains, and now you have to butcher your
frame to make it all work. You could have stepped out and bought a
good cheap (1k-1200) on an end of season sale and been way ahead.
Likely would have even got some nice clipless pedals on it if you were
choosy. But then you wouldn't get to listen to guys telling you the
proper way to step on your frame to make it wider... (ummm alignment
table??)

Blair P. Houghton wrote:
Rick wrote:
Spreading a steel frame a few mm should be fine.

If it was a beater or a new bike, I'd consider it good exercise.

But this is my Holdsworth.

One slip, and 22 years of history, maybe 40k miles, dumped
on the junk-heap.

A professional would not slip. A good professional will use a frame
jig, spread gently, make sure it is all aligned.

I'd rather find a solution that narrows the rear axle.

I talked to a wrench at the Supergo. He said to check for
spacers, and maybe Neuvation would have axels for slimmer
spacings (I remeasured; it's really 126 mm...amazing
how just 2 mm of flex per stay is near impossible to get
without some permanent bending...)

That's odd. We do near that much spreading all the time. A lot of
folks have some of the newer bikes that are spaced at 132.5, right
between 130 and 135. Allows one to use either sized wheel. We are
considering re-spacing a classic bike with 126 spacing to 128 so we can
use 126 or 130 alternatively. Anyway, when we install a 135mm spaced
wheel on a wheel with 132.5 spacing we have to pull out a minimum of
2.5mm. I know of folks running 130 on 126 spaced frames; I prefer not
to as it is more work to mount the wheel, and I like it easy if I have
to fix a flat on the road :-)

I'll even go down to an 8-speed or 7-speed rear setup, if
that's what I need to do. The 9-speed will be really close
against the right lug, and my not clear the chainstay,
which doesn't have the ogee that newer frames have. Though
the lug is pretty long, so maybe the clearance will only be
a problem during installation.

I suspect you will need to go to 7sp cassette shell.


I also put on the new chain, and if anything it shifts
cleaner than the old one. I don't know if it's as strong,
being a narrower 9-speed, and it uses the SRAM split-link
connector, which looks a bit flimsy.

I put many thousands of miles per year on those narrow 9sp chains with
connectors (SRAM and Wippermann). Never had a problem, and that
includes loaded touring up really big hills (Alps, Dolomites,
Pyrenees). If those chains can work for me, I doubt you can give them
any more punishment.

- rick

snip tale of woe about improper measurement

Spreading the chain stays from 126 to 130 is just not that big a deal on a
good steel frame. Actually you don't even have to have the dropouts spread,
just use a little more muscle when you install the back wheel. That's what I
do on my '88 Marinoni and my '86 Stumpjumper, both of which are decent
quality frames. One of the reasons steel is such a wonderful frame material
is that it is very forgiving of this kind of treatment, unlike aluminum or
carbon fiber.
--
mark

On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 21:48:30 GMT, "mark" wrote:

Actually you don't even have to have the dropouts spread,
just use a little more muscle when you install the back wheel. That's what I
do on my '88 Marinoni and my '86 Stumpjumper,

Ditto. '86 Marinoni came 126mm and I just put 130mm 8 speed hub in.
No problem.

JT

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"John Forrest Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 21:48:30 GMT, "mark" wrote:

Actually you don't even have to have the dropouts spread,
just use a little more muscle when you install the back wheel. That's what
I
do on my '88 Marinoni and my '86 Stumpjumper,

Ditto. '86 Marinoni came 126mm and I just put 130mm 8 speed hub in.
No problem.


I'll add to the dogpile. I had my '75 Peugeot PX-10 spread from 120 to 130.
I now have 9-speed ergopower on it and love the bike more than ever.

-HW

Actually you don't even have to have the dropouts spread,
just use a little more muscle when you install the back wheel.

Ditto to this. My frame is a vintage 1990 hand-built Reynolds 531.
Bullet-proof. A little elbow grease, and a 2004 9-speed rear wheel fits
right in.