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  #1  
Old September 21st 18, 08:35 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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In another month I'll be 74.

I got a copy of Joe Friel's "Fast Over 50". The story on fitness isn't very encouraging nor is it very accurate at least in my case.

He is saying that in order to retain as much of your fitness as long as possible you should be doing intervals. Well, I was never able to do sprint intervals and instead use a sort of power training - I climb. A lot. I'm retired and I'm riding four days a week which leaves three days of rest and relaxation. I also climb three of the four riding days and ride one day out of each week with the old and slow crowd as recovery.

This works only if you continue to work at it. While Friel doesn't give a lot of credit to Long Slow Distance (LSD) I think that is the basis of the overwhelming majority of riders. We are not racers and building racing fitness in people over 50 is dangerous. Overtraining is extremely easy to do over that edge because it is human nature to think that to improve you work harder at it.

Overtraining can easily lead to heart and lung problems. Broken bones from what used to be minor falls is because of decalcification of the skeleton and the time it takes to heal from these is extended.

And every day you spend out of the saddle is a day that you lose fitness. It isn't unusual to have a couple of weeks off of the bike because of weather conditions. Or medical conditions that require up to a month to heal. Glaucoma surgery in one eye then the other and you've been off the bike for a month. Then several weeks or a month of bad weather and now you've killed your competitive ability according to Joe.

You can train to get some of it back but he has quoted a study that says "if you don't use it you lose it" or more or less the same thing - muscle groups that aren't used can have the very nerves that trigger contraction die so that they can no longer be used. His suggestion is joining a gym but if there is one thing I am not it's a gym monkey.

My experience is otherwise. If you have this time off of the bike you CAN come back. You won't be at the same level as before but if you were riding and training you STILL wouldn't be at the same level you were a couple of months before.

If I ride a century I am not racing. I am doing long, slow distance and I'm trying to make it to the end as comfortably as possible. I just went through four saddles to get one that doesn't give me blisters on my but in my latest riding position on my new Colnago CLX. I'm no longer thinking that speed means anything but to the weirdos that thrive on competition. I was never wild about competition anyway so perhaps my opinions on this are not an accurate portrayal of the main body of sports cyclists.

But I can tell you that even after long periods off of your bike, proper training can bring you back to the point in which you can be satisfied with your own performance as long as you aren't trying to compare it to other people who think that the reason for living is to beat someone to the end of a TT.
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  #2  
Old September 21st 18, 09:02 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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On 2018-09-21 12:35, wrote:
In another month I'll be 74.

I got a copy of Joe Friel's "Fast Over 50". The story on fitness
isn't very encouraging nor is it very accurate at least in my case.

He is saying that in order to retain as much of your fitness as long
as possible you should be doing intervals. Well, I was never able to
do sprint intervals and instead use a sort of power training - I
climb. A lot. I'm retired and I'm riding four days a week which
leaves three days of rest and relaxation. I also climb three of the
four riding days and ride one day out of each week with the old and
slow crowd as recovery.


Climbs are intervals of a kind, just longer and irregular. Every
mountain road eventually flattens out, goes downhill, then climbs again.


This works only if you continue to work at it. While Friel doesn't
give a lot of credit to Long Slow Distance (LSD) I think that is the
basis of the overwhelming majority of riders. We are not racers and
building racing fitness in people over 50 is dangerous. Overtraining
is extremely easy to do over that edge because it is human nature to
think that to improve you work harder at it.


It's easy to get caried away. Yesterday I was riding on the American
River Bike Trail from Folsom into Sacramento with three riding buddies.
At one point I was up front, thinking about some engineering stuff, got
carried away and somehow entered a sort of cruise control mode. Buddies
were gone. I had to wait a while at a bridge.


Overtraining can easily lead to heart and lung problems. Broken bones
from what used to be minor falls is because of decalcification of the
skeleton and the time it takes to heal from these is extended.

And every day you spend out of the saddle is a day that you lose
fitness. It isn't unusual to have a couple of weeks off of the bike
because of weather conditions. Or medical conditions that require up
to a month to heal. Glaucoma surgery in one eye then the other and
you've been off the bike for a month. Then several weeks or a month
of bad weather and now you've killed your competitive ability
according to Joe.

You can train to get some of it back but he has quoted a study that
says "if you don't use it you lose it" or more or less the same thing
- muscle groups that aren't used can have the very nerves that
trigger contraction die so that they can no longer be used. His
suggestion is joining a gym but if there is one thing I am not it's a
gym monkey.

My experience is otherwise. If you have this time off of the bike you
CAN come back. You won't be at the same level as before but if you
were riding and training you STILL wouldn't be at the same level you
were a couple of months before.


My experience is like yours. When I started riding again after a 15-year
hiatus I couldn't even make it up a short hill here (Meder Road, Cameron
Park). Now I don't even feel that hill.

However, age does not come without penalties so I am fully aware that I
will never achieve my old performance level from 30 years ago. I also
find that I have slowed down on MTB trails. Not for lack of power but
out of concern of crashing. This isn't always good because an MTB is
more stable when it "floats" on the loose rocks.


If I ride a century I am not racing. I am doing long, slow distance
and I'm trying to make it to the end as comfortably as possible. I
just went through four saddles to get one that doesn't give me
blisters on my but in my latest riding position on my new Colnago
CLX.



After I wore through another saddle I just switched to a WTB Speed, like
I have on the MTB. Sadly no leather anymore these days but it is
comfortable.


I'm no longer thinking that speed means anything but to the
weirdos that thrive on competition. I was never wild about
competition anyway so perhaps my opinions on this are not an accurate
portrayal of the main body of sports cyclists.


Until that girl in Spandex passes you and ... :-)


But I can tell you that even after long periods off of your bike,
proper training can bring you back to the point in which you can be
satisfied with your own performance as long as you aren't trying to
compare it to other people who think that the reason for living is to
beat someone to the end of a TT.


Sometimes I put the hammer down especially when the bike path is boring
like this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt1m2HImOw8

No posted speed limit. Even while doing 20mph for a while I had people
zoom by at much higher speed.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #3  
Old September 21st 18, 11:28 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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On 9/21/2018 3:35 PM, wrote:
In another month I'll be 74.

I got a copy of Joe Friel's "Fast Over 50". The story on fitness isn't very encouraging nor is it very accurate at least in my case.


Well, I note that the title isn't "Fast over 70."

50 years old? Hell, that's a little kid! When I was in high school, I
wouldn't have even talked to those people! ;-)

He is saying that in order to retain as much of your fitness as long as possible you should be doing intervals. Well, I was never able to do sprint intervals and instead use a sort of power training - I climb. A lot. I'm retired and I'm riding four days a week which leaves three days of rest and relaxation. I also climb three of the four riding days and ride one day out of each week with the old and slow crowd as recovery.


I think one of the beneficial effects of bicycling is that if you're
doing it in any enthusiastic manner, the intervals are built in. Well,
unless you live in pancake land. Around here, you're bound to climb
hills, often short and relatively steep ones, unless you choose your
route very carefully.

I was in my best shape back when I was commuting to work, climbing out
of the valley to get home and always trying to do it fast; and
especially when my daughter was young and riding on the back of the
tandem. There were many, many times I barely made it to the top of a
hill, while she was cheerfully singing in the back seat. (On one
week-long trip, I actually made it a rule: "No singing on uphills!")

In those days, I really did stress my legs and lungs to near their
limits, which seems to be what's necessary to build strength. But age
and its maladies have removed that particular fire from my belly. My
thigh muscles look nothing like they used to! I can still finish at or
near the front of most club rides, but that's mostly because of my
careful choice of club rides.


We are not racers and building racing fitness in people over 50 is dangerous. Overtraining is extremely easy to do over that edge because it is human nature to think that to improve you work harder at it.


I have one friend who greatly overextended on one ride. He was trying to
keep up with a much younger, faster group on a long ride. He woke up
after falling unconscious on the floor of his home. It took every ounce
of his will to get to the phone to call 911. Apparently it was some sort
of kidney failure triggered by extreme overexertion. He nearly died.

There's a reason 70-year-olds don't compete in the Tour.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #4  
Old September 22nd 18, 01:54 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 3,368
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On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 12:35:49 PM UTC-7, wrote:
In another month I'll be 74.

I got a copy of Joe Friel's "Fast Over 50". The story on fitness isn't very encouraging nor is it very accurate at least in my case.

He is saying that in order to retain as much of your fitness as long as possible you should be doing intervals. Well, I was never able to do sprint intervals and instead use a sort of power training - I climb. A lot. I'm retired and I'm riding four days a week which leaves three days of rest and relaxation. I also climb three of the four riding days and ride one day out of each week with the old and slow crowd as recovery.

This works only if you continue to work at it. While Friel doesn't give a lot of credit to Long Slow Distance (LSD) I think that is the basis of the overwhelming majority of riders. We are not racers and building racing fitness in people over 50 is dangerous. Overtraining is extremely easy to do over that edge because it is human nature to think that to improve you work harder at it.

Overtraining can easily lead to heart and lung problems. Broken bones from what used to be minor falls is because of decalcification of the skeleton and the time it takes to heal from these is extended.

And every day you spend out of the saddle is a day that you lose fitness. It isn't unusual to have a couple of weeks off of the bike because of weather conditions. Or medical conditions that require up to a month to heal. Glaucoma surgery in one eye then the other and you've been off the bike for a month. Then several weeks or a month of bad weather and now you've killed your competitive ability according to Joe.

You can train to get some of it back but he has quoted a study that says "if you don't use it you lose it" or more or less the same thing - muscle groups that aren't used can have the very nerves that trigger contraction die so that they can no longer be used. His suggestion is joining a gym but if there is one thing I am not it's a gym monkey.

My experience is otherwise. If you have this time off of the bike you CAN come back. You won't be at the same level as before but if you were riding and training you STILL wouldn't be at the same level you were a couple of months before.

If I ride a century I am not racing. I am doing long, slow distance and I'm trying to make it to the end as comfortably as possible. I just went through four saddles to get one that doesn't give me blisters on my but in my latest riding position on my new Colnago CLX. I'm no longer thinking that speed means anything but to the weirdos that thrive on competition. I was never wild about competition anyway so perhaps my opinions on this are not an accurate portrayal of the main body of sports cyclists.


YOU GOT A CARBON FIBER BIKE?
  #5  
Old September 22nd 18, 08:54 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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On Saturday, September 22, 2018 at 12:28:38 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:

I think one of the beneficial effects of bicycling is that if you're
doing it in any enthusiastic manner, the intervals are built in. Well,
unless you live in pancake land. Around here, you're bound to climb
hills, often short and relatively steep ones, unless you choose your
route very carefully.


Living in pancake land the problem with intervals is the motivation to do so, because it is hard and it hurts. If it is windy it is easy because here you can easily plan a curvy route with alternating head winds and tail winds. Riding with a powermeter also motivates you to push and you see when you are pushing. Strava segments also helps to motivate to push. I check several Strava segments along my routes and my Garmin tells me to get ready to race that segment 150 meters or so before. I like that.

Lou
  #6  
Old September 24th 18, 04:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: 256
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On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 5:54:16 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:

YOU GOT A CARBON FIBER BIKE?


Yes, I crossed over to the Dark Side again. But the thing is that although there is only some 6 lbs total weight difference from my heaviest steel bike to the CLX, the ride quality of the CLX is easily the best of the lot. It doesn't bounce on those low spots when you're descending at 40 mph and while hitting bumps gives you a jarring just as any other frame material it doesn't continue reverberating from it after the initial strike.


As soon as I recover from the expense of building it I will switch to tubeless which will reduce the weight by some 2 lbs. because of the flat kit.

  #7  
Old September 24th 18, 04:35 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 256
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On Saturday, September 22, 2018 at 12:54:03 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Saturday, September 22, 2018 at 12:28:38 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:

I think one of the beneficial effects of bicycling is that if you're
doing it in any enthusiastic manner, the intervals are built in. Well,
unless you live in pancake land. Around here, you're bound to climb
hills, often short and relatively steep ones, unless you choose your
route very carefully.


Living in pancake land the problem with intervals is the motivation to do so, because it is hard and it hurts. If it is windy it is easy because here you can easily plan a curvy route with alternating head winds and tail winds. Riding with a powermeter also motivates you to push and you see when you are pushing. Strava segments also helps to motivate to push. I check several Strava segments along my routes and my Garmin tells me to get ready to race that segment 150 meters or so before. I like that.

Lou


Yesterday a friend wanted to go on a long ride. For him that would be 40 miles and he is slow. So we did 40 miles riding along mostly at 12 and 13 mph and although it ended up beating him up pretty badly I would think that he could do 50 miles next week. On the return trip I was pretty surprised at the amount of declining roads. On the way out I hadn't noticed at all the slight climbing.

I decided to call this my aerobic endurance ride...…...
  #9  
Old September 24th 18, 06:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 5,507
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On 2018-09-24 08:32, wrote:
On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 5:54:16 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:

YOU GOT A CARBON FIBER BIKE?


Yes, I crossed over to the Dark Side again. But the thing is that
although there is only some 6 lbs total weight difference from my
heaviest steel bike to the CLX, the ride quality of the CLX is easily
the best of the lot. It doesn't bounce on those low spots when you're
descending at 40 mph and while hitting bumps gives you a jarring just
as any other frame material it doesn't continue reverberating from it
after the initial strike.


As soon as I recover from the expense of building it I will switch to
tubeless which will reduce the weight by some 2 lbs. because of the
flat kit.


Maybe you guys don't have goat's head thorns. With tubeless the only
defense is the running surface and sometimes the even thinner side wall.
Not much for a 1/3" long thorn. Or a dozen of them hitting almost
simultaneouly. I can only imagine that resulting in an immediate flat
and the size of the hole would cause any slime to just ooze all over the
place like it happened to me. Only thick tubes and a tire liner did the
trick, no more flats since then. So the flat kits I bought from you are
pretty much exclusively for use on other cyclists' bikes.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #10  
Old September 24th 18, 08:37 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 3,368
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On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 10:09:27 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-09-24 08:32, wrote:
On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 5:54:16 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:

YOU GOT A CARBON FIBER BIKE?


Yes, I crossed over to the Dark Side again. But the thing is that
although there is only some 6 lbs total weight difference from my
heaviest steel bike to the CLX, the ride quality of the CLX is easily
the best of the lot. It doesn't bounce on those low spots when you're
descending at 40 mph and while hitting bumps gives you a jarring just
as any other frame material it doesn't continue reverberating from it
after the initial strike.


As soon as I recover from the expense of building it I will switch to
tubeless which will reduce the weight by some 2 lbs. because of the
flat kit.


Maybe you guys don't have goat's head thorns. With tubeless the only
defense is the running surface and sometimes the even thinner side wall.
Not much for a 1/3" long thorn. Or a dozen of them hitting almost
simultaneouly. I can only imagine that resulting in an immediate flat
and the size of the hole would cause any slime to just ooze all over the
place like it happened to me. Only thick tubes and a tire liner did the
trick, no more flats since then. So the flat kits I bought from you are
pretty much exclusively for use on other cyclists' bikes.


For ordinary road riders (not you, of course), tubeless would be perfect for areas infested with goatheads. You get flat resistance without a half-pound of energy-sucking tubes and tire liners. TK is on a race bike and not a cargo bike with panniers, heart-lung machine, flares and rope.

-- Jay Beattie.





 




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