"Do not feed the dinosaur! Ride a bike!"

Tom Keats wrote:


It is a matter of historical record that bicycling groups were the first
to push the Good Roads Movement.

It's ALSO a matter of historical record that they basically failed.


No they didn't. What happened was, since bicycles and automobiles
were more-or-less contemporary with each other, drivers usurped the
developing Good Roads Movement to their advantage. So the Good
Roads Movement was originally initiated and kick-started by
bicyclists. But the car drivers later stole it.

Of course, a reason bicyclists "failed" is that motorists were able to
pay for roads due to the taxation of gas. Thank you motorists, even if
you tried to usurp bicyclists' initial efforts as your own.

Wayne

On Feb 23, 12:54 pm, Wayne Pein wrote:
Tom Keats wrote:

It is a matter of historical record that bicycling groups were the first
to push the Good Roads Movement.

It's ALSO a matter of historical record that they basically failed.

No they didn't. What happened was, since bicycles and automobiles
were more-or-less contemporary with each other, drivers usurped the
developing Good Roads Movement to their advantage. So the Good
Roads Movement was originally initiated and kick-started by
bicyclists. But the car drivers later stole it.

Of course, a reason bicyclists "failed" is that motorists were able to
pay for roads due to the taxation of gas. Thank you motorists, even if
you tried to usurp bicyclists' initial efforts as your own.

Wayne

Thank you, American people, for subsidizing gas so the SUVs can
prosper and multiply...

"gas has been so crucial to our economy in the governments eyes that
they have subsidized a large portion of oil production, through
programs, tax-exemptions, and the hiding of pollution costs through
pollution permits. They have through intervention put off an
inevitable end-we will run out of gas sometime, if we continue forcing
prices down on a scarce product. In fact, government has actually
contributed to the overconsumption of oil. When government subsidizes
something (meaning they pay for a portion of it so that the consumers
don't have to) they effectively raise the demand for a product far
beyond where it naturally should be. They make it cheaper for the
companies to produce it and thus cheaper for consumers. This process
distorts market balance, because it hides costs, and creates what is
known as a moral hazard. If companies had to pay all the costs out of
their own pockets, they would produce less, and with a smaller output,
the cost would rise, and consumers would demand less and slowly ween
themselves off of this product and substitute another for it. They
would find communal travel, or alternate means of energy, things that
are both economically efficient and in the long run even better for
the environment. But because the government has absorbed the costs of
production, they have encouraged overconsumption of this good to the
extent that any miscalculation in their plan will result in the prices
skyrocketing towards the price equilibrium where oil naturally should
be, which is near 5 dollars per gallon or more. It is this type of
economic incentive that spurs innovation and gaurds scarce resources
from overconsumption.

The best solution I can think of now is to let the prices of gas..."

http://www.collegeliberty.com/?p=14

so now the gas guzzlers are the heroes?
Oil is not sold by the gallon by the way only gas.

I guess we should give the drivers a thumbs up when they get close and
intimate with us on the road.

But not knowing that fact about gov't support everyone still knew what it is
doing to the environment and resources so they are still to blame you know.
I know that is why I am a life long cyclist.
Things just seem to be getting worse.

Zen

On Feb 23, 2:45 pm, "nash" wrote:
so now the gas guzzlers are the heroes?
Oil is not sold by the gallon by the way only gas.

I guess we should give the drivers a thumbs up when they get close and
intimate with us on the road.

But not knowing that fact about gov't support everyone still knew what it is
doing to the environment and resources so they are still to blame you know.
I know that is why I am a life long cyclist.
Things just seem to be getting worse.

Zen

Yep, they are the heroes judging by the bumper stickers on their gas-
guzzling SUVs: "We support our troops" and "God bless America"...

The not-so-prosperous mostly supply the troops and a few cyclists who
dare to ride out there. David doesn't have a chance nowadays. You
know, Goliath got big bucks.

"nash" wrote in message
news:vvHDh.1121560$5R2.856160@pd7urf3no...
so now the gas guzzlers are the heroes?
Oil is not sold by the gallon by the way only gas.

I guess we should give the drivers a thumbs up when they get close and
intimate with us on the road.

But not knowing that fact about gov't support everyone still knew what it
is doing to the environment and resources so they are still to blame you
know.

I disagree. We as a society build where people have no choice but to drive
if we are to survive. And if you talk to officials about what can be done
to add density in selected areas, you'll find out there are all kinds of
crazy policies that mean that everyone has to live pretty far apart. For
instance, in one recent case in our area, a developer wanted to build a
fairly dense subdivision in an area where there's actually existing sewer
(for once). Unfortunately, it is at the end of a road that can't handle the
increased traffic. The developer has no control over that road and the
county will not upgrade it. So eventually the county will have to build
sewer out to some other area that got settled since the developer couldn't
develop at the end of the road the county wouldn't spend a few thousand $ to
upgrade (not to mention the increased tax base that area would have had to
make the road feasible).

Anyway, the upshot is that rather than having enough people you could
support a corner store, etc. and people could walk or bike to useful
destinations, that place will likely develop at a rate of one house per
acre, which is pretty much the worst density from an environmental
standpoint and certainly doesn't lend itself to transit, pedestrian traffic,
or bike traffic.

Love this town.

But the fact is that the average person doesn't realize that these things
are going on behind the scenes or what they could possibly do to affect the
mystery world of how these things get decided. Most people seem to think
that anyone who points out these kinds of problems are somehow the cause of
them, and that if we all pretend not to notice they'll go away.

-Amy

On Feb 23, 3:17 pm, "Amy Blankenship"
But not knowing that fact about gov't support everyone still knew what it
is doing to the environment and resources so they are still to blame you
know.

I disagree. We as a society build where people have no choice but to drive
if we are to survive. And if you talk to officials about what can be done
to add density in selected areas, you'll find out there are all kinds of
crazy policies that mean that everyone has to live pretty far apart. For
instance, in one recent case in our area, a developer wanted to build a
fairly dense subdivision in an area where there's actually existing sewer
(for once). Unfortunately, it is at the end of a road that can't handle the
increased traffic. The developer has no control over that road and the
county will not upgrade it. So eventually the county will have to build
sewer out to some other area that got settled since the developer couldn't
develop at the end of the road the county wouldn't spend a few thousand $ to
upgrade (not to mention the increased tax base that area would have had to
make the road feasible).

SUVs and sprawl are connected: it's all about the Big Money. One needs
the other.

And the compact city and bike are connected: they save space --and
money.

Once upon a time, in an enchanted place called Denmark...

'Once when I was touring Denmark my friend Jenka was visiting Europe
at the same time. I picked her up at the airport and we headed into
Copenhagen. As we were approaching the city, she got excited. "Wow,"
she said, "it's like a constant Critical Mass bike ride!"

As we wait at traffic lights at major intersections we passed through,
the traffic passing by ahead of us generally includes a few cars and a
lot of bicycles and pedestrians. Bike paths are as common as streets,
and most people of all walks of life get around town by bicycle.
Trains and buses full of passengers traverse the city, and you rarely
have to wait long for the next one. Each neighborhood has a
commercial center with shops, cafes, public spaces and streets off-
limits to cars altogether. Most people live bicycling distance from
where they work. Like so many European cities, it is a place that
seems to have been designed for people. People like it that way and,
to a huge extent, they keep it that way.'

However a little Danish girl found a place in the real big world, not
a fairy tale...

'My friend Ash came to visit the US from Denmark once while I was in
Washington, DC to sing at a protest. It was January a couple years
ago. Her plan was to join me for a week in DC, but first to spend a
week soaking up the sun in Florida. She flew into Tampa. She managed
to make it to the hotel she had found online, checked in, and then
thought she'd go try to find the beach. Like most hotels in the US,
hers was located some miles down a highway outside of the city, in an
area that used to be woods, swamp or farmland. An entirely recent
development, a sort of sprawling cluster of hotels, fast food
restaurants, and big box stores, surrounded by vast parking lots,
connected by four-lane roads and six-lane highways. A sidewalk has
never graced the area, and certainly not a bike path. Ash discovered a
bus stop eventually, on the side of the highway, but no bus ever
crossed it's path. Welcome to the real USA.

Ash had never seen or imagined such a place. An entirely alienating
environment where everybody gets around by car, and there is not a
pedestrian to be seen unless it's someone walking from their car to
the mall. Where walking is actually somewhat dangerous and certainly
not pleasant, there on the shoulder of the four-lane road with the
trucks and SUV's whizzing past. I had warned Ash that there would be
no way to get around the area without renting a car, and that this was
really the only way to get around most of the country, but this idea
had seemed just too preposterous to be believed, and she didn't rent
one.'

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Feb07/Rovics06.htm

nash wrote:

The same goes for inept cyclists


what do you mean by that? Cars get the lion's share means they shouldn't.
Do not know what your problem is with cyclists but you better grow out of
it. You just want to scare everyone off the road so you can be fast and
powerful. Well driving slow saves gas and gets the boys back on their own
soil. Ever think of that Law breaker.

Well, I'm a cyclist. Not as a political statement, but to get from point
A to B.

The road is a terrible place to make political statements.

--
Paul Hovnanian
------------------------------------------------------------------
Parity on, dudes!

Tom Keats wrote:

In article ,
"Paul Hovnanian P.E." writes:
nash wrote:

Oh, and as 'traffic', make sure you adhere to all applicable laws. Like
the one prohibiting slow vehicles from delaying more than 5 vehicles.


If they are speeding in the first place you are not officially slowing them
down.

Who said anything about speeding? If a cyclist impedes more than 5
vehicles, that's a violation.

Not necessarily. Are you sure there isn't a proviso
in that legislation that says the slow moving vehicle
may proceed until the first opportunity to /safely/
allow following traffic to overtake, if it's built-up
to five or more following vehicles?

There's the link right below. I saw no such proviso, but you are welcome
to search for it.

Just as it is for a motor vehicle.

You made that up didn't you?

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.427

Note that the law defines a 'slow moving vehicles' as one traveling at a
speed less than the normal traffic flow. It says nothing about speed
limits.

How about being inept at driving they should "walk only" in the first place.

The same goes for inept cyclists. Put the training wheels back on and
ride only where mom can watch you.

Sometimes self-interested car drivers try to
disguise themselves as cyclists.
The results of their thrashings and wailings and
nashing of teeth are amusing. Like now.

And sometimes cyclists don't want to get killed due to the road rage
that those seeking to make political statements incite.

If you want to be taken seriously, you are going to have to quit acting
like children. Nobody is going to invest millions of dollars into
infastructure to coddle law breakers (other than prisons that is).

--
Paul Hovnanian
------------------------------------------------------------------
Software Engineering is like looking for a black cat in a dark room.
Systems Engineering is like looking for a black cat in a dark room
in which there is no cat.
Knowledge Engineering is like looking for a black cat in a dark room
in which there is no cat and somebody yells, "I got it!"

I know we have a problem with the dinosaur. He's so stupid that he
doesn't see the need to change! So perhaps a wake up call could be
that we alert him that the asteroid is coming, or that we don't feed
him --or perhaps that he reads a book like this...

'Worldchanging: A Users Guide for the 21st Century' is a
groundbreaking compendium of the most innovative solutions, ideas and
inventions emerging today for building a sustainable, livable,
prosperous future.

"To build that future, we need a generation of everyday heroes, people
who - whatever their walks of life - have the courage to think in
fresh ways and to act to meet this planetary crisis head-on. This book
belongs in the library of every person who aspires to be part of that
generation."
- Al Gore

http://www.worldchanging.com/book/

I think it could be an action plan for THE REVOLUTION. It talks about
bicycle activism too, so, who knows, the cyclists may be the next
furry little mammals.

Well, it's not cocaine but another kind of addiction that goes through
the brain of the "voracious consumers" (SUVs, motorboats...)

'Oil on the Brain: Adventures from the Pump to the Pipeline'

'Lisa Margonelli's illuminating, entertaining stories of "people who
oversee oil's long journey to our cars." Starting at her neighborhood
filling station, she scurries up the pump like Alice down the rabbit
hole, to discover and chronicle the delivery trucks, refineries,
drilling rigs, the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, the oil market and,
most tellingly, the voracious consumers. Simply put, oil rules. It is
indispensable to our comfortable lifestyles and we will go to war over
access to it.

Running through the book, subterranean but ever present, is our
preposterous relationship to oil, an institutionalized addiction that
discourages strategic change. We feed the rat [dinosaur] instead of
setting a trap for it.

Today's petro-states are hazards in themselves: Margonelli's portraits
of Venezuela, Chad, Iran and Nigeria are cases in point. "Lurking
within [those countries] were instability, poverty, nationalism, and
deep anti-American feelings. The 2001 National Energy Policy, written
after secret consultations between Vice President Dick Cheney and oil
executives, concluded as much. ... Many people interpret it as a
virtual declaration of war." Weapons of mass destruction don't have to
be bombs; oil fits the bill quite nicely.'

http://www.envirosagainstwar.org/kno...hp?itemid=5209

"She realizes that the long term future of energy is not with oil. She
says: 'The United States could put its considerable money and
political will into creating new kinds of vehicles and fuels, while
creating incentives to use fossil fuels more efficiently.'
Unfortunately, when I listen to our politicians, I don't hear anything
about such things. Perhaps lip service as in the state of the union
message, but no action."

http://www.amazon.com/Oil-Brain-Adve.../dp/0385511450


and I leave you with the lyrics here (you may substitute appropriately
oil for cocaine)...

Song: Cocaine in My Brain Lyrics

Hey Jim, Jim, just a minute y'all
I want to ask you somethin'
I want you to spell somethin' for me Jim
Can you do that? Sure John
But I want you to spell for me New York
John, why you ask me to do that?
I just want you to spell New York, Jim
Well alright, I'm gonna go ahead man

N-E-W Y-O-R-K, that's New York man
No Jim, you've made a mistake, Jim
I'm gonna teach you the right way
And the proper way to spell New York
Well, go ahead, John

A knife, a fork, a bottle and a cork
That's the way we spell New York, Jim - yeah
You see I'm a dynamite
So all you got to do is hold me tight
Because I'm out a sight, you know
'Cause I'm a dynamite

But everytime I walk in the rain
Man, o man, I feel a pain, I feel a burning pain
Keep on burning in my bloody brain

I've got cocaine runnin' around my brain
I've got cocaine runnin' around my brain
I want you to dig me soul brother and soul sister
I want you hold me tight because I'm a dynamite - yeah
I've got cocaine runnin' around my brain

No matter where I treat my guest
You see they always like my kitchen best
'Cause I've cocaine runnin' around my brain
cocaine runnin' around my brain, yea

Hey Jim, Jim? Where is Jim, man?
Jim, I want you to tell me somethin'
I want you to spell for me New York, Jim
Come on, Jim, I want you to spell New York

A knife, a fork, a bottle and a cork
That's the way we spell New York
Right on, out of sight man, right on, ooh
Right on, yeah, right on

Hey Jim, Jim, just a minute y'all
I want to ask you somethin'
I want you to spell somethin' for me, Jim
Can you do that? Sure John
But I want you to spell for me New York
John, why you ask me to do that?
I just want you to spell New York, Jim
Well alright, I'm gonna go ahead man

N-E-W Y-O-R-K, that's New York, man
No Jim, you've made a mistake, Jim
I'm gonna teach you the right way
And the proper way to spell New York
Well, go ahead, John

A knife, a fork, a bottle and a cork
That's the way we spell New York, Jim - yeah
You see, I'm a dynamite
So all you got to do is hold me tight
Because I'm out a sight, you know
'Cause I'm a dynamite

But everytime I walk in the rain
Man, o man, I feel a pain, I feel a burning pain
Keep on burning in my bloody brain

I've got cocaine runnin' around my brain
I've got cocaine runnin' around my brain
I want you to dig me soul brother and soul sister
I want you hold me tight because I'm a dynamite - yeah
I've got cocaine runnin' around my brain

No matter where I treat my guest
You see they always like my kitchen best
'Cause I've cocaine runnin' around my brain
cocaine runnin' around my brain, yea

Hey Jim, Jim? Where is Jim, man?
Jim, I want you to tell me somethin'
I want you to spell for me New York, Jim
Come on, Jim, I want you spell New York

A knife, a fork, a bottle and a cork
That's the way we spell New York
Right on, out of sight man, right on, ooh
Right on, yeah, right on

Man oh man, I'm on the run
I've got to reach the setting sun
'Cause I've got cocaine
A whole lot, whole lot of cocaine, man
Runnin' around my brain, runnin' around my brain
cocaine, cocaine, runnin' around my brain, yeah

http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/mewit...einmybrain.htm