Electric Assist Motors; some questions

On Mon, 3 Nov 2014 14:43:58 -0800 (PST), Andre Jute
wrote:

On Monday, November 3, 2014 6:53:24 PM UTC, �Jones wrote to Andre Jute:

What you're saying is about what we're looking for. The reason I'd
even consider a "mid-motor" is because (1) I have somplace to mount
and (2) I have an extra rear wheel that would accept a single-speed
drive gear.

We want a simple, basically low-speed device to add an uphill push to
a fairly heavy (compared to a 2-wheeler) tricycle.

I'm looking at a device called the "Hilltopper" which is a front hub,
on/off setup. I'll go read your suggested literature now and get
back.

Jones

I hear good things about 8Fun; however, they're a European product
with no US presence. That "Hilltopper" looks very simple. You switch
it on: it pushes; switch it off: it quits. That's what I'd use.

I'm worried that, if she got into a tight spot, she might not switch
off.

Jones

It doesn't matter where you buy the kit. The important thing is to get the right kit, and to get a complete kit; I cannot stress the importance of a complete kit enough. Here is one of the cheapest dealers that nonetheless has a reliable reputation, in a link that will take you to the same kit that I have, updated with more modern peripherals:
http://www.bmsbattery.com/ebike-kits...-bike-kit.html
Note that this includes the right battery (for central mounting) and that it is the good battery, with Panasonic cells. The problem with these very attractive Chinese prices is that you're playing poker with Customs, who hold all the cards, and if the slightest technical thing goes wrong you're in for quite a bit of frustration, delay, and possibly expense. The only example of something going wrong with an 8FUN kit actually happened to me: a wire came loose in the loom. They instantly agreed I could solder it, and if the loom was ruined by my soldering, they would supply a new loom, or I could send the whole kit back and get a complete new one.

This is the same kit is sold by others under their own name, sometimes with claims that it is their "proprietary" motor, often for several times what BMS in China or 8FUN in the UK (where I bought mine) charges. Some chancers sell a kit without a battery for damn nearly twice what I paid for mine complete with battery. There is a German kit which uses the right motor and the battery in the bottle but has it's own very beautiful control wiring loom and boxes, but unfortunately it's pedelec only, and your wife needs the throttle installation. Note my remarks on my netsite about installing the throttle so I have to let it go in order to apply the brake -- no bootlegger turns here!

Law in Canada requires the brake disconnects the motor.

Here is a another account on a forum where several members eventually fitted various versions of the QSWXK kit, or had it fitted in some cases.
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/...19268#msg19268
Note the remarks about the axle diameter. On that forum with time it became clear to me that people who paid much more for what is essentially the same kit didn't get superior satisfaction out of it.

Andre Jute

On Monday, November 3, 2014 7:46:18 AM UTC-8, �Jones wrote:
In general, I do not care for electric motors; I have neither owned
nor ridden one.
snip

You might visit "electricbike.com" and just do a bunch of reading, especially the home brewed section.
This will give you a general idea of what's out there and grounds for further research.

Pureheart in Aptos, CA

Andre Jute wrote:
throttle, and DIY midmotors are in their current stage of
development strictly for experts and masochists.


There's a grain of truth in that statement, but I would not discount
mid-drives if you have some space and know-how. I fitted an EcoSpeed
mid drive to an old Schwinn Town & Country trike for my 97 year old
father, it worked very well.

The only thing masochistic was fitting the mid-drive into the very small
amount of space available. With a longer frame, which I think the OP has,
it would not be hard. Having a separate wheel to drive strikes me as a
very mixed bag: Very simple drive train, but if geared for steep hills
might have some wierd behavior on extremely steep hills and slippery
surfaces.


The components were bought from http://www.ecospeed.com/
Battery pack was from http://www.batteryspace.com

Hope this helps,

bob prohaska

User Bp wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
throttle, and DIY midmotors are in their current stage of
development strictly for experts and masochists.


There's a grain of truth in that statement, but I would not discount
mid-drives if you have some space and know-how. I fitted an EcoSpeed
mid drive to an old Schwinn Town & Country trike for my 97 year old
father, it worked very well.

The only thing masochistic was fitting the mid-drive into the very small
amount of space available. With a longer frame, which I think the OP has,
it would not be hard. Having a separate wheel to drive strikes me as a
very mixed bag: Very simple drive train, but if geared for steep hills
might have some wierd behavior on extremely steep hills and slippery
surfaces.


The components were bought from http://www.ecospeed.com/
Battery pack was from http://www.batteryspace.com

Hope this helps,

bob prohaska

Geez. Walk in any bikeshop in the Netherlands and you can buy them ready to
go:
http://www.koga.com/nl/fietsen/elekt...va.htm?frame=H
This is just an example. I believe 50% of the new bikes sold is electric
assisted here. Unbelievable succes story over here

--
Lou

On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 06:19:48 +1000, in rec.bicycles.tech Peter Howard
wrote:

Read and digest all of the Ezee and Grin Tech websites. It will give you
a better appreciation of the topic.

I'm working on that. Most of the "info" sites are simply sales hype,
though. The one I choose will have to be laced to a 406 rim, so I'll
probably have to buy a kit that supports that. I see a few with 20"
rims, which would work, I suppose; however, then I'd have to have one
20" tire on the trike.

The upside is that taking a hub designed for a 26" rim and downsizing
to 406 would increase the torque and drop the top speed... to us, this
is desirable.

Jones

On Mon, 03 Nov 2014 19:27:35 -0500, in rec.bicycles.tech
"(PeteCresswell)" wrote:

My experience has been the opposite: maximum drag with the hub drive
and imperceptible drag with my current geared drive.

Front vs rear is something to think about.

Frond drive lets you preserve whatever drive train you have, but weighs
down the front wheel a lot for when it comes to negotiating curbs and
such.

OTOH, if the throttle malfunctions at rest, you have a better chance of
lifting the front wheel than controlling a runaway back wheel.

OTOOH, I have disc brakes and either brake can overcome the motor if
necessary.

Batteries are also something to think about. Conventional eBike
batteries are *heavy*... as in compromise-balance-of-bike heavy.

I use a couple of 36v DeWalt drill batteries. They work for me because
my use is the same as your anticipated use: hills only (in my case, to
avoid mouth breathing in cold air).

It is my understanding that hub drives tend to have very little power
under a static start; it also dogs the motor, which is one reason many
controlers won't cut in unless a minimal motion is sensed. Of course,
I say this never having actually ridden one, so I may be wrong.

The tricycle on which it will be used weighs in at around 35 lb or so
dry. OTOH, the rider is handicapped and not known for coordination
and dexterity... I would prefer one that wouldn't engage from a stop.

Jones

On Tue, 4 Nov 2014 19:34:19 +0000 (UTC), User Bp
wrote:

Andre Jute wrote:
throttle, and DIY midmotors are in their current stage of
development strictly for experts and masochists.


There's a grain of truth in that statement, but I would not discount
mid-drives if you have some space and know-how. I fitted an EcoSpeed
mid drive to an old Schwinn Town & Country trike for my 97 year old
father, it worked very well.

The only thing masochistic was fitting the mid-drive into the very small
amount of space available. With a longer frame, which I think the OP has,
it would not be hard. Having a separate wheel to drive strikes me as a
very mixed bag: Very simple drive train, but if geared for steep hills
might have some wierd behavior on extremely steep hills and slippery
surfaces.


The components were bought from http://www.ecospeed.com/
Battery pack was from http://www.batteryspace.com

Hope this helps,

bob prohaska
Not nearly as badf as a driven front wheel under the same
circumstances. Weight transfer to the rear favours rear wheel drive.

On 04/11/2014 22:30, ¡Jones wrote:

I'm working on that. Most of the "info" sites are simply sales hype,
though. The one I choose will have to be laced to a 406 rim, so I'll
probably have to buy a kit that supports that. I see a few with 20"
rims, which would work, I suppose; however, then I'd have to have one
20" tire on the trike.

406 is 20" isn't it?

On Tuesday, November 4, 2014 2:34:30 PM UTC-5, User Bp wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
throttle, and DIY midmotors are in their current stage of
development strictly for experts and masochists.


There's a grain of truth in that statement, but I would not discount
mid-drives if you have some space and know-how. I fitted an EcoSpeed
mid drive to an old Schwinn Town & Country trike for my 97 year old
father, it worked very well.

The only thing masochistic was fitting the mid-drive into the very small
amount of space available. With a longer frame, which I think the OP has,
it would not be hard. Having a separate wheel to drive strikes me as a
very mixed bag: Very simple drive train, but if geared for steep hills
might have some wierd behavior on extremely steep hills and slippery
surfaces.


The components were bought from http://www.ecospeed.com/
Battery pack was from http://www.batteryspace.com

Hope this helps,

bob prohaska

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CF !