What would make a more reliable wheel?

I am a heavy rider and I have a choice of two second hand wheel sets
for a bike that is going to be used loaded with extra baggage.

One set has single-walled (floored?) rims but has 36 spokes.

The other set has double walled rims and are a bit deeper (22mm or so)
but is running only 20 spokes on the front and 24 on the back.

I recognise that neither set is a long term solution but these come at
the right price. Maybe I'll be allowed to get hubs rims and spokes
for my birthday in October, or possibly Christmas...

I'm familiar enough with wheel building to know about stress relieving
and I am normally a spoke thread greaser, but I concede that these
might have to be thread locked so that they don't unscrew themselves
in use.

What is likely to have a greater influence on strength of the wheel,
the stronger rim or the greater number of spokes?

Cheers,

Cameron

On Jul 1, 1:49*am, Ironhanglider wrote:
I am a heavy rider and I have a choice of two second hand wheel sets
for a bike that is going to be used loaded with extra baggage.

One set has single-walled (floored?) rims but has 36 spokes.

The other set has double walled rims and are a bit deeper (22mm or so)
but is running only 20 spokes on the front and 24 on the back.

I recognise that neither set is a long term solution but these come at
the right price. *Maybe I'll be allowed to get hubs rims and spokes
for my birthday in October, or possibly Christmas...

I'm familiar enough with wheel building to know about stress relieving
and *I am normally a spoke thread greaser, but I concede that these
might have to be thread locked so that they don't unscrew themselves
in use.

What is likely to have a greater influence on strength of the wheel,
the stronger rim or the greater number of spokes?

Cheers,

Cameron

Hard to say without knowing more details. But if you break a spoke,
the 36-spoke wheel won't go out of true as much...
- Sergio Moretti

On Jul 1, 2:49*am, Ironhanglider wrote:
I am a heavy rider and I have a choice of two second hand wheel sets
for a bike that is going to be used loaded with extra baggage.

One set has single-walled (floored?) rims but has 36 spokes.

The other set has double walled rims and are a bit deeper (22mm or so)
but is running only 20 spokes on the front and 24 on the back.

I recognise that neither set is a long term solution but these come at
the right price. *Maybe I'll be allowed to get hubs rims and spokes
for my birthday in October, or possibly Christmas...

I'm familiar enough with wheel building to know about stress relieving
and *I am normally a spoke thread greaser, but I concede that these
might have to be thread locked so that they don't unscrew themselves
in use.

What is likely to have a greater influence on strength of the wheel,
the stronger rim or the greater number of spokes?

Cheers,

Cameron

I suppose we can't know for sure without testing them to failure. But
I'd bet on the 36 spoke wheel. In fact, I'd bet heavily, based on
both spoke breakage consequences and on the rim's resistance to
cracking.

There have been plenty of tales of double "floor" rims cracking at the
spoke holes. I don't recall hearing that about the simpler
extrusions. Those were probably made much thicker, because a major
motivation for double wall would be to reduce weight.

If you break 1/24 of your spokes, your ride is likely to be over. If
you break 1/36 of your spokes, you can probably true and ride on.

- Frank Krygowski

On Jul 1, 10:09*am, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Jul 1, 2:49*am, Ironhanglider wrote:





I am a heavy rider and I have a choice of two second hand wheel sets
for a bike that is going to be used loaded with extra baggage.

One set has single-walled (floored?) rims but has 36 spokes.

The other set has double walled rims and are a bit deeper (22mm or so)
but is running only 20 spokes on the front and 24 on the back.

I recognise that neither set is a long term solution but these come at
the right price. *Maybe I'll be allowed to get hubs rims and spokes
for my birthday in October, or possibly Christmas...

I'm familiar enough with wheel building to know about stress relieving
and *I am normally a spoke thread greaser, but I concede that these
might have to be thread locked so that they don't unscrew themselves
in use.

What is likely to have a greater influence on strength of the wheel,
the stronger rim or the greater number of spokes?

Cheers,

Cameron

I suppose we can't know for sure without testing them to failure. *But
I'd bet on the 36 spoke wheel. *In fact, I'd bet heavily, based on
both spoke breakage consequences and on the rim's resistance to
cracking.

There have been plenty of tales of double "floor" rims cracking at the
spoke holes. *I don't recall hearing that about the simpler
extrusions. *Those were probably made much thicker, because a major
motivation for double wall would be to reduce weight.

If you break 1/24 of your spokes, your ride is likely to be over. *If
you break 1/36 of your spokes, you can probably true and ride on.

- Frank Krygowski- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In my experience, even 32-spoke wheels are rideable with one less
spoke.
Either truing (laterally) or open up the brake.
No need to call for a ride.
- Sergio Moretti

On 1 July, 07:49, Ironhanglider wrote:
I am a heavy rider and I have a choice of two second hand wheel sets
for a bike that is going to be used loaded with extra baggage.

One set has single-walled (floored?) rims but has 36 spokes.

The other set has double walled rims and are a bit deeper (22mm or so)
but is running only 20 spokes on the front and 24 on the back.

I recognise that neither set is a long term solution but these come at
the right price. *Maybe I'll be allowed to get hubs rims and spokes
for my birthday in October, or possibly Christmas...

I'm familiar enough with wheel building to know about stress relieving
and *I am normally a spoke thread greaser, but I concede that these
might have to be thread locked so that they don't unscrew themselves
in use.

What is likely to have a greater influence on strength of the wheel,
the stronger rim or the greater number of spokes?

Cheers,

Cameron

Neither. The most influential part of the wheel is the spoke assembly
as a whole and how well it stabilises the wheel under load. For
reliability in the woods etc always choose higher spoke counts.
Single wall rims are not necessarily deficient, it's just that the
double wall has evolved from the naturally robust sprint rim. A dual
wall rims may be deficient for high loads. It is unlikely you would
have such a rim and more can be done with good spoke alignment. If
further reliability is required then the spokes may be tied and
soldered, something which I feel would be essential for 24 spokes,
touring.

On 1 July, 16:09, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Jul 1, 2:49*am, Ironhanglider wrote:



I am a heavy rider and I have a choice of two second hand wheel sets
for a bike that is going to be used loaded with extra baggage.

One set has single-walled (floored?) rims but has 36 spokes.

The other set has double walled rims and are a bit deeper (22mm or so)
but is running only 20 spokes on the front and 24 on the back.

I recognise that neither set is a long term solution but these come at
the right price. *Maybe I'll be allowed to get hubs rims and spokes
for my birthday in October, or possibly Christmas...

I'm familiar enough with wheel building to know about stress relieving
and *I am normally a spoke thread greaser, but I concede that these
might have to be thread locked so that they don't unscrew themselves
in use.

What is likely to have a greater influence on strength of the wheel,
the stronger rim or the greater number of spokes?

Cheers,

Cameron

I suppose we can't know for sure without testing them to failure. *But
I'd bet on the 36 spoke wheel. *In fact, I'd bet heavily, based on
both spoke breakage consequences and on the rim's resistance to
cracking.

There have been plenty of tales of double "floor" rims cracking at the
spoke holes. *I don't recall hearing that about the simpler
extrusions. *Those were probably made much thicker, because a major
motivation for double wall would be to reduce weight.

If you break 1/24 of your spokes, your ride is likely to be over. *If
you break 1/36 of your spokes, you can probably true and ride on.

- Frank Krygowski

With a well built wheel of 36 spokes the loss of one or two spokes
should be barely perceptible.

In article
,
Ironhanglider wrote:

I am a heavy rider and I have a choice of two second hand wheel sets
for a bike that is going to be used loaded with extra baggage.

One set has single-walled (floored?) rims but has 36 spokes.

The other set has double walled rims and are a bit deeper (22mm or so)
but is running only 20 spokes on the front and 24 on the back.

I recognise that neither set is a long term solution but these come at
the right price. Maybe I'll be allowed to get hubs rims and spokes
for my birthday in October, or possibly Christmas...

An eventuation devoutly to be hoped for.

I'm familiar enough with wheel building to know about stress relieving
and I am normally a spoke thread greaser, but I concede that these
might have to be thread locked so that they don't unscrew themselves
in use.

What is likely to have a greater influence on strength of the wheel,
the stronger rim or the greater number of spokes?

Both will be fine for most purposes. True them up,
stress relieve, and ride.

--
Michael Press

On Jul 1, 10:08*am, thirty-six wrote:
On 1 July, 16:09, Frank Krygowski wrote:





On Jul 1, 2:49*am, Ironhanglider wrote:

I am a heavy rider and I have a choice of two second hand wheel sets
for a bike that is going to be used loaded with extra baggage.

One set has single-walled (floored?) rims but has 36 spokes.

The other set has double walled rims and are a bit deeper (22mm or so)
but is running only 20 spokes on the front and 24 on the back.

I recognise that neither set is a long term solution but these come at
the right price. *Maybe I'll be allowed to get hubs rims and spokes
for my birthday in October, or possibly Christmas...

I'm familiar enough with wheel building to know about stress relieving
and *I am normally a spoke thread greaser, but I concede that these
might have to be thread locked so that they don't unscrew themselves
in use.

What is likely to have a greater influence on strength of the wheel,
the stronger rim or the greater number of spokes?

Cheers,

Cameron

I suppose we can't know for sure without testing them to failure. *But
I'd bet on the 36 spoke wheel. *In fact, I'd bet heavily, based on
both spoke breakage consequences and on the rim's resistance to
cracking.

There have been plenty of tales of double "floor" rims cracking at the
spoke holes. *I don't recall hearing that about the simpler
extrusions. *Those were probably made much thicker, because a major
motivation for double wall would be to reduce weight.

If you break 1/24 of your spokes, your ride is likely to be over. *If
you break 1/36 of your spokes, you can probably true and ride on.

- Frank Krygowski

With a well built wheel of 36 spokes the loss of one or two spokes
should be barely perceptible.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I lost three spokes when I tore off a rear flange on a 36 hole hub --
Dura Ache. I think I was on dual pivots and still managed to get the
wheel true enough to clear the pads and get home. I remember that
ride well -- my wheel failure gave me an excuse for getting spanked by
a girl on a long climb, albeit the state road champ girl. -- Jay
Beattie.

On 2 July, 02:03, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Jul 1, 10:08*am, thirty-six wrote:



On 1 July, 16:09, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On Jul 1, 2:49*am, Ironhanglider wrote:

I am a heavy rider and I have a choice of two second hand wheel sets
for a bike that is going to be used loaded with extra baggage.

One set has single-walled (floored?) rims but has 36 spokes.

The other set has double walled rims and are a bit deeper (22mm or so)
but is running only 20 spokes on the front and 24 on the back.

I recognise that neither set is a long term solution but these come at
the right price. *Maybe I'll be allowed to get hubs rims and spokes
for my birthday in October, or possibly Christmas...

I'm familiar enough with wheel building to know about stress relieving
and *I am normally a spoke thread greaser, but I concede that these
might have to be thread locked so that they don't unscrew themselves
in use.

What is likely to have a greater influence on strength of the wheel,
the stronger rim or the greater number of spokes?

Cheers,

Cameron

I suppose we can't know for sure without testing them to failure. *But
I'd bet on the 36 spoke wheel. *In fact, I'd bet heavily, based on
both spoke breakage consequences and on the rim's resistance to
cracking.

There have been plenty of tales of double "floor" rims cracking at the
spoke holes. *I don't recall hearing that about the simpler
extrusions. *Those were probably made much thicker, because a major
motivation for double wall would be to reduce weight.

If you break 1/24 of your spokes, your ride is likely to be over. *If
you break 1/36 of your spokes, you can probably true and ride on.

- Frank Krygowski

With a well built wheel of 36 spokes the loss of one or two spokes
should be barely perceptible.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I lost three spokes when I tore off a rear flange on a 36 hole hub --
Dura Ache. *I think I was on dual pivots and still managed to get the
wheel true enough to clear the pads and get home. *I remember that
ride well -- my wheel failure gave me an excuse for getting spanked by
a girl on a long climb, albeit the state road champ girl.

English hedgerows offer good coverage for that sort of thing.

Thanks everyone for your helpful (& entertaining) replies. I don't
get to write to this group as often as I'd like.

I managed to find a third option...

I took my low spoke count wheels and managed to swap them for some
wheels I built for a training bike nearly 10 years ago. I sold the
bike to a friend of mine. They are 32 spoke wheels built with double
butted spokes and Deep V rims and I think that they are much better
suited to my current purpose (The hubs are still in good nick too!).

My friend was happy to swap for the 20/24 spoke wheels (they're sexy
'cause they're black) and I think we are both satisfied with the swap.

Regards,

Cameron.