Andre Jute explains how to mix ahead and quill steerer systems onbicycles without taking a faceplant

The topcap, adjustment bolt and starfangled nut can be lost after the stem clamps the steerer tube into the head tube at the proper bearing preset.

That makes it relatively easy to convert a threadless headset back to a quill headset, without threading anything, for instance in cases where some idiot cut your steerer tube too short. The catch is that, unless you really know what you're doing, it could be rather dangerous to mix these two systems of holding the front wheel on the bike. There is also a likely weight penalty but it is modest enough in terms of the class of bike on which you would want to perform this radical surgery. If you do it right, though, the entire steering system is strengthened and perceptibly stiffened, and you gain a good deal of adjustment in your bicycle's office, to the benefit of your back and wrists.

BBB sells a quill that fits inside a standard aheadset steerer; cheaper models are available from other vendors, generally made for them by Kalloy, or under Kalloy's own Uno brand. You can also choose an integral stem/quill combination if you can find one in the right size; Kalloy makes one on which the stem is adjustable for handlebar angle and height, not as nice as the Gazelle Switch (which won't fit, being made for one inch systems) but perfectly functionional. Everybody sells the spacers you will also require to make it all fit.

In addition you need a lockring which has as its inside dimension the outside diameter of your steerer tube. Look at seatpost clamps, or Problem Solvers makes two lockings suitable for this purpose, one of them with micro-adjustment to set the headset bearings preload so you don't have to indulge in the contortions I describe below. The resident googleboogers will presently supply us with URLs for component sources.

Why, you wonder, do we need spacers, why can we not just leave the unused length of steerer tube bare? The reason is a bit silly: our locking, if repurposed from seatpost clamping duty, has a ridge at the top to sit on the seat tube. This ridge, unless we machine it off, when we use the same clamp for a locking, stops you putting it anywhere but at the top of the steerer tube, where the ring must clear the top by no more than 2mm. You therefore require spacers between the bottom of the lockring/seatpost clamp and the top of the headset, to an exactitude of about 1mm.

The procedure is to replace a spacer with the locking, leaving it loose. Now set up the headset bearings preset with the starfangled nut, topcap and the associated bolt in the normal manner and then, instead of locking it all down with the stem, lock it down with the locking. The locking doesn't have to be directly on top of the upper bearing, it can be above spacers, anywhere, as long as it presses down on the headtube directly or indirectly. When the lockring is tightened to spec, you may remove the bolt, topical and the starfangled nut.

You may find it more convenient to remove the starfangled nut by drifting it out with the fork out of the bike. In this case, you can set the bearings preload in this way: With the fork and bearings back in the bike, assemble the steerer tube with the lockring sitting loose on it, with whatever spacers you want below it. Insert the quill and fasten it wherever you like, but above the thickening of the butt at the steerer tube's bottom. Clamp the stem firmly higher up the quill. If the stem is too short to provide a good handhold, bolt the handlebars to the stem as well. You can now use the leverage of the stem or the handlebars to preset the headset bearings, and bolt the lockring on to hold that preset.

Right, now you have the bearings preload set, and locked in, and the starfangled nut, its bolt and topcap are gone. You can insert (or loosen) the quill into the steerer tube and adjust it to whatever height you want, torque it in to spec, then clamp a standard aheadset stem around it (or not, if you found an integral quill/stem unit), and refit the handlebar and its furniture

Theres a photograph of such an installation (with added wrinkles) on my Utopia Kranich at
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/...26347#msg26347
-- the lockring, siting at the top of the steerer tube, is the doublebolted item with the two silver flashes, and the silver ring above it is all you can see of the quill, with above it the single bolt of the n'lock stem. The hex bolt centred on top of the stem is the expanding thread of the quill. Notice how far down from this assembly is the Cane Creek headset top bearing; I've gained nearly two inches in handlebar height. In this particular assembly, using a ridged seatpost clamp, this space on the steerer tube cannot be left bare; it must absolutely be filled with quality spacers (not fragile carbon rubbish!).

Please make sure before you attempt this that you understand that you are mixing two systems; you need to know how both work or you will come short. If you are baffled by anything I say, let a qualified bike mechanic do the job; it'll take him much less than a quarter-hour and you'll be glad you spent the money.

Andre Jute
Pass the torque wrench, s'il vous plaît

On Monday, November 17, 2014 5:05:44 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
The topcap, adjustment bolt and starfangled nut can be lost after the stem clamps the steerer tube into the head tube at the proper bearing preset.

That makes it relatively easy to convert a threadless headset back to a quill headset, without threading anything, for instance in cases where some idiot cut your steerer tube too short. The catch is that, unless you really know what you're doing, it could be rather dangerous to mix these two systems of holding the front wheel on the bike. There is also a likely weight penalty but it is modest enough in terms of the class of bike on which you would want to perform this radical surgery. If you do it right, though, the entire steering system is strengthened and perceptibly stiffened, and you gain a good deal of adjustment in your bicycle's office, to the benefit of your back and wrists.

BBB sells a quill that fits inside a standard aheadset steerer; cheaper models are available from other vendors, generally made for them by Kalloy, or under Kalloy's own Uno brand. You can also choose an integral stem/quill combination if you can find one in the right size; Kalloy makes one on which the stem is adjustable for handlebar angle and height, not as nice as the Gazelle Switch (which won't fit, being made for one inch systems) but perfectly functionional. Everybody sells the spacers you will also require to make it all fit.

In addition you need a lockring which has as its inside dimension the outside diameter of your steerer tube. Look at seatpost clamps, or Problem Solvers makes two lockings suitable for this purpose, one of them with micro-adjustment to set the headset bearings preload so you don't have to indulge in the contortions I describe below. The resident googleboogers will presently supply us with URLs for component sources.

Why, you wonder, do we need spacers, why can we not just leave the unused length of steerer tube bare? The reason is a bit silly: our locking, if repurposed from seatpost clamping duty, has a ridge at the top to sit on the seat tube. This ridge, unless we machine it off, when we use the same clamp for a locking, stops you putting it anywhere but at the top of the steerer tube, where the ring must clear the top by no more than 2mm. You therefore require spacers between the bottom of the lockring/seatpost clamp and the top of the headset, to an exactitude of about 1mm.

The procedure is to replace a spacer with the locking, leaving it loose. Now set up the headset bearings preset with the starfangled nut, topcap and the associated bolt in the normal manner and then, instead of locking it all down with the stem, lock it down with the locking. The locking doesn't have to be directly on top of the upper bearing, it can be above spacers, anywhere, as long as it presses down on the headtube directly or indirectly. When the lockring is tightened to spec, you may remove the bolt, topical and the starfangled nut.

You may find it more convenient to remove the starfangled nut by drifting it out with the fork out of the bike. In this case, you can set the bearings preload in this way: With the fork and bearings back in the bike, assemble the steerer tube with the lockring sitting loose on it, with whatever spacers you want below it. Insert the quill and fasten it wherever you like, but above the thickening of the butt at the steerer tube's bottom. Clamp the stem firmly higher up the quill. If the stem is too short to provide a good handhold, bolt the handlebars to the stem as well. You can now use the leverage of the stem or the handlebars to preset the headset bearings, and bolt the lockring on to hold that preset.

Right, now you have the bearings preload set, and locked in, and the starfangled nut, its bolt and topcap are gone. You can insert (or loosen) the quill into the steerer tube and adjust it to whatever height you want, torque it in to spec, then clamp a standard aheadset stem around it (or not, if you found an integral quill/stem unit), and refit the handlebar and its furniture

Theres a photograph of such an installation (with added wrinkles) on my Utopia Kranich at
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/...26347#msg26347
-- the lockring, siting at the top of the steerer tube, is the doublebolted item with the two silver flashes, and the silver ring above it is all you can see of the quill, with above it the single bolt of the n'lock stem. The hex bolt centred on top of the stem is the expanding thread of the quill.. Notice how far down from this assembly is the Cane Creek headset top bearing; I've gained nearly two inches in handlebar height. In this particular assembly, using a ridged seatpost clamp, this space on the steerer tube cannot be left bare; it must absolutely be filled with quality spacers (not fragile carbon rubbish!).

Please make sure before you attempt this that you understand that you are mixing two systems; you need to know how both work or you will come short. If you are baffled by anything I say, let a qualified bike mechanic do the job; it'll take him much less than a quarter-hour and you'll be glad you spent the money.

Andre Jute
Pass the torque wrench, s'il vous plaît

Is that a joy stick protruding out of your left bar grip? What is that for -- missile guidance? You have a mind-boggling array of stuff on your bike, but you are obviously missing this: http://www.cyclesiren.com/IMAGES08/p...lu%20clsup.jpg
It's totally StVZO compliant . . . really!

-- Jay Beattie.

On 18/11/2014 01:05, Andre Jute wrote:
Theres a photograph of such an installation (with added wrinkles) on my Utopia Kranich at
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/...26347#msg26347
-- the lockring, siting at the top of the steerer tube, is the doublebolted item with the two silver flashes, and the silver ring above it is all you can see of the quill, with above it the single bolt of the n'lock stem. The hex bolt centred on top of the stem is the expanding thread of the quill. Notice how far down from this assembly is the Cane Creek headset top bearing; I've gained nearly two inches in handlebar height. In this particular assembly, using a ridged seatpost clamp, this space on the steerer tube cannot be left bare; it must absolutely be filled with quality spacers (not fragile carbon rubbish!).

Or you could use something such as this :

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Delta-TD3318.../dp/B000FGYKWS

Mount that like you would a normal stem, then bolt the stem to the bit
sticking out of the top without any need for spacers on the top part.

On 11/17/2014 8:50 PM, jbeattie wrote:


Is that a joy stick protruding out of your left bar grip? What is that for --
missile guidance? You have a mind-boggling array of stuff on your bike...

That reminds me. One guy I knew for a while decided to get into
motorcycles (to go with his bicycles, his dozens of guitars, his
jet-skis, his antique sports car... you get the idea.) So he bought his
first motorcycle, a sort of undersized Harley replica made by Kawasaki.

I joked with him a bit, claiming that people who owned companies (as he
did) shouldn't ride anything less than a BMW. It was just a joke. But
then the guy from the company across the street came over and gushed
about how cool my ratty old BMW was. Darned if my friend didn't then go
out and buy a BMW GS! And true to form, he soon proceeded to attach
every motorcycle accessory known to man.

Then he went to his first BMW rally. He came back sort of in awe,
saying that I was right! He was rubbing elbows with CEOs, judges,
physicians, congressmen, etc. Then it came out that he'd actually won
an "award" at the rally - something to do with the greatest number of
silly electronic accessories.

The feature that put him over the top? His was the only motorcycle with
an electronic indoor-outdoor thermometer!

--
- Frank Krygowski

great flying squirrels what is the phallic thingee, an o2 tank ? or a fuel cell ?

On 11/17/2014 9:31 PM, wrote:
great flying squirrels what is the phallic thingee, an o2 tank ? or a fuel cell ?

Probably a codpiece.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tuesday, November 18, 2014 1:50:22 AM UTC, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, November 17, 2014 5:05:44 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
The topcap, adjustment bolt and starfangled nut can be lost after the stem clamps the steerer tube into the head tube at the proper bearing preset..

That makes it relatively easy to convert a threadless headset back to a quill headset, without threading anything, for instance in cases where some idiot cut your steerer tube too short. The catch is that, unless you really know what you're doing, it could be rather dangerous to mix these two systems of holding the front wheel on the bike. There is also a likely weight penalty but it is modest enough in terms of the class of bike on which you would want to perform this radical surgery. If you do it right, though, the entire steering system is strengthened and perceptibly stiffened, and you gain a good deal of adjustment in your bicycle's office, to the benefit of your back and wrists.

BBB sells a quill that fits inside a standard aheadset steerer; cheaper models are available from other vendors, generally made for them by Kalloy, or under Kalloy's own Uno brand. You can also choose an integral stem/quill combination if you can find one in the right size; Kalloy makes one on which the stem is adjustable for handlebar angle and height, not as nice as the Gazelle Switch (which won't fit, being made for one inch systems) but perfectly functionional. Everybody sells the spacers you will also require to make it all fit.

In addition you need a lockring which has as its inside dimension the outside diameter of your steerer tube. Look at seatpost clamps, or Problem Solvers makes two lockings suitable for this purpose, one of them with micro-adjustment to set the headset bearings preload so you don't have to indulge in the contortions I describe below. The resident googleboogers will presently supply us with URLs for component sources.

Why, you wonder, do we need spacers, why can we not just leave the unused length of steerer tube bare? The reason is a bit silly: our locking, if repurposed from seatpost clamping duty, has a ridge at the top to sit on the seat tube. This ridge, unless we machine it off, when we use the same clamp for a locking, stops you putting it anywhere but at the top of the steerer tube, where the ring must clear the top by no more than 2mm. You therefore require spacers between the bottom of the lockring/seatpost clamp and the top of the headset, to an exactitude of about 1mm.

The procedure is to replace a spacer with the locking, leaving it loose.. Now set up the headset bearings preset with the starfangled nut, topcap and the associated bolt in the normal manner and then, instead of locking it all down with the stem, lock it down with the locking. The locking doesn't have to be directly on top of the upper bearing, it can be above spacers, anywhere, as long as it presses down on the headtube directly or indirectly.. When the lockring is tightened to spec, you may remove the bolt, topical and the starfangled nut.

You may find it more convenient to remove the starfangled nut by drifting it out with the fork out of the bike. In this case, you can set the bearings preload in this way: With the fork and bearings back in the bike, assemble the steerer tube with the lockring sitting loose on it, with whatever spacers you want below it. Insert the quill and fasten it wherever you like, but above the thickening of the butt at the steerer tube's bottom. Clamp the stem firmly higher up the quill. If the stem is too short to provide a good handhold, bolt the handlebars to the stem as well. You can now use the leverage of the stem or the handlebars to preset the headset bearings, and bolt the lockring on to hold that preset.

Right, now you have the bearings preload set, and locked in, and the starfangled nut, its bolt and topcap are gone. You can insert (or loosen) the quill into the steerer tube and adjust it to whatever height you want, torque it in to spec, then clamp a standard aheadset stem around it (or not, if you found an integral quill/stem unit), and refit the handlebar and its furniture

Theres a photograph of such an installation (with added wrinkles) on my Utopia Kranich at
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/...26347#msg26347
-- the lockring, siting at the top of the steerer tube, is the doublebolted item with the two silver flashes, and the silver ring above it is all you can see of the quill, with above it the single bolt of the n'lock stem. The hex bolt centred on top of the stem is the expanding thread of the quill. Notice how far down from this assembly is the Cane Creek headset top bearing; I've gained nearly two inches in handlebar height. In this particular assembly, using a ridged seatpost clamp, this space on the steerer tube cannot be left bare; it must absolutely be filled with quality spacers (not fragile carbon rubbish!).

Please make sure before you attempt this that you understand that you are mixing two systems; you need to know how both work or you will come short. If you are baffled by anything I say, let a qualified bike mechanic do the job; it'll take him much less than a quarter-hour and you'll be glad you spent the money.

Andre Jute
Pass the torque wrench, s'il vous plaît

Is that a joy stick protruding out of your left bar grip? What is that for -- missile guidance?

It's a cable that is attached inside the handlebar. Look at the pic again at http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/...26347#msg26347
and locate a hole in the stem. You pull the cable out of the handlebar, put it around a tree or a lamppost or a rail and into the hole, then turn the knob on the stem over the top of the lock pin and take the key out. The front wheel is now no longer connected to the steerer tube; the bike looks broken. Nobody wants to steal it. Even if they cut the cable (and I failed on a spare with 24in cutters), the thing is seriously unmanageable with that heavy front wheel and fork flopping all over the place. I hardly ever bother with the cable: I just n'lock the stem and take the key with me, and wait for some clown to give himself a faceplant when he tries to steal my bike.

You have a mind-boggling array of stuff on your bike,

Eh? I just see a bike computer (cheapest Sigma model) and the control for my electric motor and the battery for it. The rest is brakes (hydraulic rim brakes by Magura`) and BUMM lamp half hidden behind the lefthand grip, and a Cateye 300G mirror, cheap stuff I buy by the halfdozen as consumptibles, because I got fed up with smashing expensive Zefals against bridge abutments on a footbridge I'm still trying to perfect entry to at 40kph with an inch to spare on either side. The grips are made of Brooks saddle leather offcuts, rings of thick leather on edge, held together with little bicycle spokes into the cast ali end retainers; you can see the indentations where the nipples are spun onto the spokes. The handlebar bag, which holds electronic gubbins that control my electric motor, is an old framed leather washable (all the luggage, including the saddlebag, on my bike is leather; I don't see the point of overpriced, cheap black plastic).

but you are obviously missing this: http://www.cyclesiren.com/IMAGES08/p...lu%20clsup.jpg
It's totally StVZO compliant . . . really!

And top secret too. I can't even tell what it is.

Andre Jute

On Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:19:06 AM UTC, Clive George wrote:
On 18/11/2014 01:05, Andre Jute wrote:
Theres a photograph of such an installation (with added wrinkles) on my Utopia Kranich at
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/...26347#msg26347
-- the lockring, siting at the top of the steerer tube, is the doublebolted item with the two silver flashes, and the silver ring above it is all you can see of the quill, with above it the single bolt of the n'lock stem. The hex bolt centred on top of the stem is the expanding thread of the quill. Notice how far down from this assembly is the Cane Creek headset top bearing; I've gained nearly two inches in handlebar height. In this particular assembly, using a ridged seatpost clamp, this space on the steerer tube cannot be left bare; it must absolutely be filled with quality spacers (not fragile carbon rubbish!).

Or you could use something such as this :

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Delta-TD3318.../dp/B000FGYKWS

Mount that like you would a normal stem, then bolt the stem to the bit
sticking out of the top without any need for spacers on the top part.

Sure, if all you want is a very limited extension of the steerer tube. The point about a quill is that it gives you adjustment almost forever.

Andre Jute

On Monday, November 17, 2014 9:34:12 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/17/2014 9:31 PM, wrote:
great flying squirrels what is the phallic thingee, an o2 tank ? or a fuel cell ?

Probably a codpiece.

--
- Frank Krygowski

NNNNNNNNNNNN

authentic cod comes in a woodenbox..

Northern California, the state west of Las vegas, is asshole deep with this

not to hijack AJ's post..

http://goo.gl/Xb5u0d

amazing you know you're standing around somewhere or waiting at the light and ach due leber, like gnats...

belwo and above, H-D and assorted H-D Asians.

as in your anecdote...where's the wire ?

On Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:24:44 AM UTC, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/17/2014 8:50 PM, jbeattie wrote:


Is that a joy stick protruding out of your left bar grip? What is that for --
missile guidance? You have a mind-boggling array of stuff on your bike...

That reminds me. One guy I knew for a while

I'm not surprised he decided that you were a loser he could do without. Check this wave of negativity:

decided to get into
motorcycles (to go with his bicycles, his dozens of guitars, his
jet-skis, his antique sports car... you get the idea.) So he bought his
first motorcycle, a sort of undersized Harley replica made by Kawasaki.

I joked with him a bit, claiming that people who owned companies (as he
did) shouldn't ride anything less than a BMW. It was just a joke. But
then the guy from the company across the street came over and gushed
about how cool my ratty old BMW was. Darned if my friend didn't then go
out and buy a BMW GS! And true to form, he soon proceeded to attach
every motorcycle accessory known to man.

Then he went to his first BMW rally. He came back sort of in awe,
saying that I was right! He was rubbing elbows with CEOs, judges,
physicians, congressmen, etc. Then it came out that he'd actually won
an "award" at the rally - something to do with the greatest number of
silly electronic accessories.

The feature that put him over the top? His was the only motorcycle with
an electronic indoor-outdoor thermometer!

--
- Frank Krygowski

God, you must have been standing five miles behind the back of the line when joie de vivre was handed out, Franki-boy.

Just to ruin your day terminally, here's what I did, and what all the real cyclists I know cheered about, when I decided to bling up my bike a bit in celebration at coming home from hospital:
http://coolmainpress.com/andrejutewatches.html#Pistoia

Andre Jute