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Shimano Headset



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 10th 17, 01:39 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 13,447
Default Shimano Headset

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...ast/hp6207.jpg

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

  #2  
Old May 10th 17, 09:25 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default Shimano Headset

On 2017-05-09 17:39, AMuzi wrote:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...ast/hp6207.jpg


In the lower picture you can see what I mentioned in another thread:
Fixed wrenches, in contrast to adjustable ones, are always larger than
the nuts. Have to be in order to account for tolerances. So they never
grab cleanly which will wear the nut over time and also ding it. Some
people are very particular about the appearance of their ride for
whatever reason.

What helps against cosmetic nut damage is to stick Kapton tape on the
wrench insides or the nut. I place it onto the wrenches because then I
can use it over and over again.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #3  
Old May 10th 17, 10:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
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Posts: 1,035
Default Shimano Headset

Joerg wrote:

In the lower picture you can see what
I mentioned in another thread: Fixed
wrenches, in contrast to adjustable ones, are
always larger than the nuts. Have to be in
order to account for tolerances. So they
never grab cleanly which will wear the nut
over time and also ding it.


Well... doesn't any wrench has to be bigger
than the nut in order to grab it?

Adjustable tools doesn't offer a tighter grip.
Even if it could in theory just feel the part
that is adjustable - you can almost always ruck
it back and forth, just a bit but nonetheless.

Also the adjustable wrench is often used in
a careless manner. People don't adjust it to
perfection before they pull!

No, fixed keys are the best and in particular
the ring side (closed end) of the combination
spanner as that pulls on all sides of a hex
bolt or nut.

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
  #4  
Old May 10th 17, 11:19 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default Shimano Headset

On 2017-05-10 14:41, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Joerg wrote:

In the lower picture you can see what
I mentioned in another thread: Fixed
wrenches, in contrast to adjustable ones, are
always larger than the nuts. Have to be in
order to account for tolerances. So they
never grab cleanly which will wear the nut
over time and also ding it.


Well... doesn't any wrench has to be bigger
than the nut in order to grab it?

Adjustable tools doesn't offer a tighter grip.



They sure do, provided you have a good one and not one from the local
discounter.


Even if it could in theory just feel the part
that is adjustable - you can almost always ruck
it back and forth, just a bit but nonetheless.


Yes, but that sliver is much smaller than with a regular sized fixed wrench.


Also the adjustable wrench is often used in
a careless manner. People don't adjust it to
perfection before they pull!


Ya well, if people use them as hammers and such the work result will
usually show it.


No, fixed keys are the best and in particular
the ring side (closed end) of the combination
spanner as that pulls on all sides of a hex
bolt or nut.


For most situations I use fixed wrenches but not when if has to be super
snug. However, as I said I have a few really high-quality adjustable
wrenches. The smaller cheaper ones are more for emergencies.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #5  
Old May 10th 17, 11:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 5,270
Default Shimano Headset

On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 6:19:24 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-05-10 14:41, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Joerg wrote:

In the lower picture you can see what
I mentioned in another thread: Fixed
wrenches, in contrast to adjustable ones, are
always larger than the nuts. Have to be in
order to account for tolerances. So they
never grab cleanly which will wear the nut
over time and also ding it.


Well... doesn't any wrench has to be bigger
than the nut in order to grab it?

Adjustable tools doesn't offer a tighter grip.



They sure do, provided you have a good one and not one from the local
discounter.


Even if it could in theory just feel the part
that is adjustable - you can almost always ruck
it back and forth, just a bit but nonetheless.


Yes, but that sliver is much smaller than with a regular sized fixed wrench.


Also the adjustable wrench is often used in
a careless manner. People don't adjust it to
perfection before they pull!


Ya well, if people use them as hammers and such the work result will
usually show it.


No, fixed keys are the best and in particular
the ring side (closed end) of the combination
spanner as that pulls on all sides of a hex
bolt or nut.


For most situations I use fixed wrenches but not when if has to be super
snug. However, as I said I have a few really high-quality adjustable
wrenches. The smaller cheaper ones are more for emergencies.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


If adjustable wrenches are so dang great then why do repair shops spend thousands of dollars on wrenches designed to fit the fastener?

Cheers
  #6  
Old May 11th 17, 01:53 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 5,697
Default Shimano Headset

On Wed, 10 May 2017 15:41:23 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 6:19:24 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-05-10 14:41, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Joerg wrote:

In the lower picture you can see what
I mentioned in another thread: Fixed
wrenches, in contrast to adjustable ones, are
always larger than the nuts. Have to be in
order to account for tolerances. So they
never grab cleanly which will wear the nut
over time and also ding it.

Well... doesn't any wrench has to be bigger
than the nut in order to grab it?

Adjustable tools doesn't offer a tighter grip.



They sure do, provided you have a good one and not one from the local
discounter.


Even if it could in theory just feel the part
that is adjustable - you can almost always ruck
it back and forth, just a bit but nonetheless.


Yes, but that sliver is much smaller than with a regular sized fixed wrench.


Also the adjustable wrench is often used in
a careless manner. People don't adjust it to
perfection before they pull!


Ya well, if people use them as hammers and such the work result will
usually show it.


No, fixed keys are the best and in particular
the ring side (closed end) of the combination
spanner as that pulls on all sides of a hex
bolt or nut.


For most situations I use fixed wrenches but not when if has to be super
snug. However, as I said I have a few really high-quality adjustable
wrenches. The smaller cheaper ones are more for emergencies.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


If adjustable wrenches are so dang great then why do repair

shops spend thousands of dollars on wrenches designed to fit the
fastener?

Cheers


Actually wrenches and nuts and bolts aren't designed so that the
wrench is a press fit onto the fastener since that would mean that in
order to fit the wrench to the fastener it would have to be in perfect
alignment. Hardly practical in a working environment.

Nor is some mythical "perfect fit" necessary as fasteners are designed
to be tightened or loosened using conventional tools and the size of
the hexagon head or nut provides sufficient flat length to avoid the
wrench slipping and rounding the corners. In fact, using conventional
wrenches it is quite easy to actually break the shank of a fastener
without damaging the head at all.

But then, to one who habitually uses a nail and a rock as a chain tool
the use of proper tools is probably a mystery.

--
Cheers,

John B.

  #7  
Old May 11th 17, 12:00 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,035
Default Shimano Headset

Joerg wrote:

Even if it could in theory just feel the
part that is adjustable - you can almost
always ruck it back and forth, just a bit
but nonetheless.

Yes, but that sliver is much smaller than
with a regular sized fixed wrench.


Perhaps the size of the nut is of
importance here.

For example, with adjustable wrenches when you
pull a small item it sometimes happens that
item gets tilted and stuck in the wrench.
This never happened to me with the fixed sizes.

But it is logical that adjustable wrenches pull
tighter so at some level of quality and
carefull work they should surpass
anything fixed...

In practice, on a typical bike. Say 8 and 10 mm
for details. 13 for the saddle and 14 or 15 for
the dome nuts. If you leave any normal person
with this bike and fixed keys the work will be
many times as good and much faster. Remember,
it is not just pulling, it is also HOLDING
while pulling at the same time.

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
  #8  
Old May 11th 17, 03:10 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Shimano Headset

On 2017-05-10 16:00, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Joerg wrote:

Even if it could in theory just feel the
part that is adjustable - you can almost
always ruck it back and forth, just a bit
but nonetheless.

Yes, but that sliver is much smaller than
with a regular sized fixed wrench.


Perhaps the size of the nut is of
importance here.

For example, with adjustable wrenches when you
pull a small item it sometimes happens that
item gets tilted and stuck in the wrench.
This never happened to me with the fixed sizes.


Then you seriously need a better quality adjustable wrench. Or not use it.


But it is logical that adjustable wrenches pull
tighter so at some level of quality and
carefull work they should surpass
anything fixed...

In practice, on a typical bike. Say 8 and 10 mm
for details. 13 for the saddle and 14 or 15 for
the dome nuts. If you leave any normal person
with this bike and fixed keys the work will be
many times as good and much faster. Remember,
it is not just pulling, it is also HOLDING
while pulling at the same time.


For those I'd never use adjustable. I did a mod to the MTB yesterday and
everything was less than the equivalent of about 14mm. When it comes to
very recalcitrant bottom brackets that have been in there for years or
decades that quickly becomes another story. There a high-quality
adjustable wrench set very snugly can win the day.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #9  
Old May 10th 17, 10:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 6,374
Default Shimano Headset

Tape ! Buy an undersized wrench n grind to fit. This dId not occur to you ?

Grinding insures the part is obsolete in one year
  #10  
Old May 16th 17, 04:51 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Barry Beams
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Posts: 42
Default Shimano Headset

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 5:39:22 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...ast/hp6207.jpg

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


The sound of a helmet cracking in half around your head on impact is a sound you never forget.
The alternative would have been the skull cracking and brain flesh bouncing inside the distorted cranium.
Some people don't get the message to wear a helmet til they're thanking G-d that the still have a coherent brain as the blood drips down the side of their head til the emergency room stitches them up.
A close biking friend in SF was helmetless forever. Not an issue I brought up to her, not open for discussion. Recently, her helmetless head encountered a hard impact with the roadway, the kind that sometimes does end up fatal. I hope to see her with a helmet next time we meet up.
I would be dead twice because the two helmet crackers I had would have both likely been fatal if I didn't have a helmet on.
 




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