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#92
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Shimano Headset
On 5/15/2017 2:31 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 15 May 2017 12:05:23 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 5/14/2017 11:34 PM, wrote: On Sun, 14 May 2017 19:46:40 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 12:01:06 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Sun, 14 May 2017 07:42:40 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Saturday, May 13, 2017 at 8:43:29 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Sat, 13 May 2017 13:05:08 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Friday, May 12, 2017 at 9:57:35 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Fri, 12 May 2017 08:23:02 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Thursday, May 11, 2017 at 10:06:04 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote: Snipped But then, to one who habitually uses a nail and a rock as a chain tool the use of proper tools is probably a mystery. Try to differentiate between an outdoors emergency situation and the workshop in the garage. It's not that difficult. - Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ Which is hy mose of us carry a small tool repair kit that includes a chain-breaker. That way a broken chain isn't an ememrgency and a repair only takes a few seconds. After all seconds count when you're beig stalked by mountain lions or other hungry critters doesn't it? For someone who either breaks chains a lot or often comes across people with a broken chain (bother very rare where I ride even on the technical trails) it ONLY makes sense to have a chain breaker and spare link(s)and quick-link WITH YOU. To be honest using a rock and rusty nail to repair a chain in the field sounds like something an armchair bicyclist would think up. Such a repaired chain would most likely fail again after only a short distance. Believe it or not there's good reasons why chain breakers are used to fix a chain. Cheers Out of curiosity I weighed and measured the chain tool that I carry in my bike tool kit. It is 2-1/2 inches in length and 2-1/8 inches in height. 1/2 inch thick, at its thickest, and weighs 2.6 ounces. It works with chains up to and including 10 speed chains (I don't own an 11 speed). Frankly, as a broken chain immobilizes the bicycle I can see no logic in not carrying it. Since I have never once had a broken chain nor seen one I cannot see any requirement to carry such a tool. Yesterday I did 55 miles and 2500 feet of climbing with some of it pretty steep ~12%. There were fore of us there and the dirt encrusted on the bikes showed a certain lack of careful maintenance. No one had any problems. I have been carrying all these tools around for the last 6 years and the only one's I've used are the tire repair tools. Equally, I have had two crashes severe enough to break bones and in neither did my head strike the ground. Thus, based on your logic, there is no reason what so ever to wear a helmet. There is almost no reason to wear a helmet under any conditions. If a helmet was just barely able to protect me in a fall literally from 18" what makes you think that a helmet can do anything other than protect you from getting scratches on your head in a sideways fall at a dead stop? My oldest daughter hit her head on a concrete retaining wall hard enough to crack the hardshell bike helmet and came away without a scratch (on her head - she did get a bit of "road rash" elsewhere)- and most certainly would have suffered a concussion without it. The foam lining and hard plastic shell absorbed a LOT of impact. I would suggest that you don't understand the nature and causes of concussion. And that you don't understand the mechanics of impact. Where did you get a hardshell bicycle helmet? I don't know the age or weight of your child or what "retaining wall" means. Colliding and hitting your head in the forward lunge is NOT the same as falling off of your bike and taking the brunt of the collision with the ground on your head. Sorry, but you would be wrong. I understand that concussions are caused by the head decellerating too quickly, causing the brain to bruise or twist inside the skull. I also know that compressing an inch of foam can increase the time taken to slow the head to a stop - in actual testing, about an extra 6ms - which changes the effective impact significantly - reducing the peak impact force by more than half. It spreads the force over a longer time - reducing the decelleration. When I say Hard shell, I don't mean fiberglass - this was a fairly tough polypropelene shell - they were pretty common here in Ontario Canada 20 years ago. She was riding down a hill when the pedal broke and she lost control, veering into a retaining wall made of bags of cement which was used to stabilize a steep bank beside the road (the road is in a "cut") She came off the bike sideways, hitting her head on the wall, and also hitting her shoulder. Helmets protect against impacts whether caused by the acceleration of gravity in a fall, are due to forward velocity (which CAN be much higher than a strictly gravitational fall from about 4 feet) Lots of information that does not support the interpretation of increased injuries due to helmet use here. http://www.helmets.org/stats.htm Also you need to talk to paramedics and emergency room physicians. You will get a different story than Frank's. I've talked to a woman in our bike club whose full time job was TBI rehabilitation. This was back in the 1990s. She admitted that in seven years of full time work, she'd encountered only one bike-related TBI victim, and he was a racer who had been wearing a helmet when he crashed. Look up the numbers of TBI victims sorted by activity. Fatality data I found indicates that bicyclists are only 0.6% of TBI fatalities in the U.S. And again, that's not low because of the helmets. See http://vehicularcyclist.com/fatals.html and http://vehicularcyclist.com/kunich.html Read this: http://ohiobike.org/images/pdfs/CyclingIsSafeTLK.pdf If you hit TBI websites, you'll see that bicycling is usually not even mentioned in ranked lists of causes. Yet the myth of great risk persists. And the myth of great protection is nearly as strong. Like I said, we will agree to dissagree. I have provided links to opposing data - others can make up their own minds. You are in a small minority, even of Cyclists, who oppose helmet wearing. Sorry, that too is false. After decades of fear mongering and intense helmet promotion, something like half of American bicyclists wear helmets. (In my area, it's closer to one third.) But that's just the U.S. If you look at the world's cyclists, helmets are still very uncommon. Most of the world's cyclists have not been subject to the false propaganda. And oddly enough, those who haven't gotten the "Danger!" sales pitch have never noticed the supposed great risk of brain injury. That's because the great risk of brain injury is mythical. There's still hope, though. For a couple decades, major bike magazines had a policy - sometimes explicitly stated, sometimes not - of showing no cyclists not wearing helmets. (Oh, except for Africans, Asians or others who were once called "white man's burden.") But lately there's been a trickle of photos of bareheaded white folk. This weird fashion/paranoia may one day pass. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#93
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Shimano Headset
On 5/15/2017 3:50 PM, wrote:
On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 8:41:39 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Sun, 14 May 2017 22:47:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 5/14/2017 10:04 PM, wrote: On Mon, 15 May 2017 08:54:22 +0700, John B. Any safety equipment that is not overly intrusive is worth using ??? Really?? OK, do you wear a bike helmet when driving to the start of a bike ride? I wear my bike helmet whenever I ride my bike(s) If you mean when in my car, don't be stupid. I guess I have to stipulate any "appropriate" safety equipment. In my car (which has a colapsible steering column, air bags, and seat belts) I wear my seat belts. When driving my motorcycle I always wore an approved helmet and good shoes/boots. I would NEVER ride in shorts and tee-shirt wearing flip-flops or tennis shoes. I also won't mow the lawn barefoot, or use a grinder without safety glasses, or weld without goggles. To do otherwise is shear stupidity. And we aren't suggesting you don't. We are suggesting that you don't take chances you wouldn't take because you are wearing a helmet. Mayer Hillman (look him up) is a renowned British researcher on many topics. He's a bike helmet skeptic. I believe he was the one who said you might possibly get some benefit from wearing a bike helmet if you could just forget that you had it on. I think he was overly optimistic. He made that statement when "85%" was still considered by some to be correct. There's a lot more data available these days. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#94
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Shimano Headset
On 5/15/2017 4:05 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 15 May 2017 12:50:56 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 8:41:39 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Sun, 14 May 2017 22:47:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 5/14/2017 10:04 PM, wrote: On Mon, 15 May 2017 08:54:22 +0700, John B. Any safety equipment that is not overly intrusive is worth using ??? Really?? OK, do you wear a bike helmet when driving to the start of a bike ride? I wear my bike helmet whenever I ride my bike(s) If you mean when in my car, don't be stupid. I guess I have to stipulate any "appropriate" safety equipment. In my car (which has a colapsible steering column, air bags, and seat belts) I wear my seat belts. When driving my motorcycle I always wore an approved helmet and good shoes/boots. I would NEVER ride in shorts and tee-shirt wearing flip-flops or tennis shoes. I also won't mow the lawn barefoot, or use a grinder without safety glasses, or weld without goggles. To do otherwise is shear stupidity. And we aren't suggesting you don't. We are suggesting that you don't take chances you wouldn't take because you are wearing a helmet. And as I stated earlier, only a TOTAL IDIOT would take extra chances just because he's wearing a helmet (or a seatbelt in a car). A helmet doesn't make you bullet-proof or immortal. Again, the behavior you limit to only total idiots is instead perfectly normal among humans. It's been demonstrated time and again. It applies not only to helmets, but to countless different safety devices. Read the book _Risk_ by John Adams. I believe that was the one that noted the initial effect of Britain's mandatory seat belt laws. See, Britain first mandated seat belts only for drivers, predicting great reductions in traffic fatalities. After the first year, it turned out that driver fatalities did indeed drop; but at the same time, the numbers of passenger fatalities and pedestrian fatalities jumped! The most common explanation was that the drivers felt more protected, and therefore took more risks. Others suffered from their "protected" confidence. The phenomenon is sometimes called Risk Compensation, sometimes Risk Homeostasis. One theory is that most people have some personal level of perceived risk with which they are comfortable. Up to that level, they'll often engage in riskier behavior to gain other benefits like less travel time, for example. If they feel more protected, they'll try for more of the benefit - say, by driving faster. (Or by riding a bike on a road they'd otherwise avoid.) Which is not irrational, really! But it breaks down when the safety benefit is overstated or illusory. Then the increased acceptance of risk outstripped the protective capacity. And the "85%" benefit for bike helmets was certainly grossly exaggerated, but was the most widely accepted number for a long time. (Some say bicyclists would not take extra risk because of fear of other injury; but helmeteers warned ONLY of TBI risk, never of other risks of bicycling.) -- - Frank Krygowski |
#95
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Shimano Headset
On 5/15/2017 4:35 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 4:05:27 PM UTC-4, wrote: Snipped A helmet doesn't make you bullet-proof or immortal. I still take all other sensible precautions when using tools too - not depending on safety glasses to protect me from stupidity, but giving my eyes a fighting chance in case carefull use of the tools still sends something flying towards my eyes. Don't know about you, but I can only blink SO fast - - - Might as well give it up now. In this newsgroup those who oppose helmet use do so vehemently and will NEVER be persuaded that a helmet can help. :-) And by the same token, most of the people who religiously believe in the great TBI risk of bicycling and the great protective value of bike helmets will never give up those beliefs. I think most of them are convinced that if they hadn't worn helmets all their lives, bicycling would have killed them. Which is really odd, considering that bike helmets weren't available until the mid-1970s. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#96
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Shimano Headset
Frank Krygowski wrote:
But that's just the U.S. If you look at the world's cyclists, helmets are still very uncommon. Here, helmets are not exactly uncommon but proportionally usage is low - without any data, I'd say somewhere around one out of twenty. However that is the huge mass of "utility" bikers. Of the people with sport bikes that also has the "style police" outfit and all the gear to go with it, with those I'd say the proportion is the other way around (or close to 100% helmet actually). But those are much, much fewer in numbers. -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 |
#97
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Shimano Headset
Frank Krygowski wrote:
I think most of them are convinced that if they hadn't worn helmets all their lives, bicycling would have killed them. Which is really odd, considering that bike helmets weren't available until the mid-1970s. When the case is made helmets do not help, does one mean the number of accidents with head trauma hasn't decreased despite helmets being sold or what exactly is the case? Because obviously the helmet helps if one hits it with a hammer... Also, are we talking racing, MTB or any other sport version, or are we talking utility/commuting? -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 |
#98
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Shimano Headset
On 5/15/2017 7:08 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/15/2017 4:35 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 4:05:27 PM UTC-4, wrote: Snipped A helmet doesn't make you bullet-proof or immortal. I still take all other sensible precautions when using tools too - not depending on safety glasses to protect me from stupidity, but giving my eyes a fighting chance in case carefull use of the tools still sends something flying towards my eyes. Don't know about you, but I can only blink SO fast - - - Might as well give it up now. In this newsgroup those who oppose helmet use do so vehemently and will NEVER be persuaded that a helmet can help. :-) And by the same token, most of the people who religiously believe in the great TBI risk of bicycling and the great protective value of bike helmets will never give up those beliefs. I think most of them are convinced that if they hadn't worn helmets all their lives, bicycling would have killed them. Which is really odd, considering that bike helmets weren't available until the mid-1970s. Jean Robic wore a helmet religiously in the 1940s and 1950s. You can't ask his opinion. He's dead. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#99
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Shimano Headset
On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 8:29:32 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/15/2017 7:08 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 5/15/2017 4:35 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 4:05:27 PM UTC-4, wrote: Snipped A helmet doesn't make you bullet-proof or immortal. I still take all other sensible precautions when using tools too - not depending on safety glasses to protect me from stupidity, but giving my eyes a fighting chance in case carefull use of the tools still sends something flying towards my eyes. Don't know about you, but I can only blink SO fast - - - Might as well give it up now. In this newsgroup those who oppose helmet use do so vehemently and will NEVER be persuaded that a helmet can help. :-) And by the same token, most of the people who religiously believe in the great TBI risk of bicycling and the great protective value of bike helmets will never give up those beliefs. I think most of them are convinced that if they hadn't worn helmets all their lives, bicycling would have killed them. Which is really odd, considering that bike helmets weren't available until the mid-1970s. Jean Robic wore a helmet religiously in the 1940s and 1950s. You can't ask his opinion. He's dead. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 The ONE time my helmeted head slammed into the pavememt I was VERY happy that I was wearing that helmet then. I don't care if anyone else wears or doesn't wear a helmet. It's their choice. I do know that in some cses a helmet can really help even if it just means you get up and continue your ride instead of going to the hospital for stiches, wound scrubbing or concusion, after wiping out. I don't care aboutthe statistics that many can trot out. I care about what happened that time to ME. Cheers |
#100
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Shimano Headset
On 5/15/2017 8:13 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote: But that's just the U.S. If you look at the world's cyclists, helmets are still very uncommon. Here, helmets are not exactly uncommon but proportionally usage is low - without any data, I'd say somewhere around one out of twenty. However that is the huge mass of "utility" bikers. Of the people with sport bikes that also has the "style police" outfit and all the gear to go with it, with those I'd say the proportion is the other way around (or close to 100% helmet actually). But those are much, much fewer in numbers. That's what I've seen when in Europe. Helmets go with lycra, usually. But it didn't necessarily connect with going fast. Even the people we encountered who were part of guided tour groups, pottering at 15kph on bike paths, often had "sporty" lycra stretched over their bellies, and oh-so-safe helmets on their heads. But who knows? Many of them were probably Americans. OTOH, the elderly ladies riding normal city streets and doing their shopping on bikes were dressed like - well, like normal people! -- - Frank Krygowski |
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