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  #151  
Old September 9th 17, 07:36 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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On Fri, 08 Sep 2017 14:34:52 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/8/2017 10:22 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/7/2017 11:27 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 7 Sep 2017 11:16:11 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

OTOH, I also don't see any sense in corporation CEOs
getting paid hundreds of
times what their professional workers get paid, or paying
a lower percentage of
their income in taxes. Other country's corporations seem
to thrive with much smaller relative pay scales for CEOs.


What would be an equitable wage for a chap managing a
world wide
business with 11,600 stores in 28 countries, employing 2.3
million
people with annual revenues of 480 billion dollars and a
net income of
14.69 billion?


Well, as a very rough guess, I'd limit it to something like
20 times what an average employee earns. Or perhaps $500k
per year.

After all, what's an equitable wage for the president of the
most powerful country on earth? Seems $400,000 is enough to
get lots of serious applicants, and I've not seen evidence
that a pay raise would generate any better quality
applications.

Besides, what does a person do with more than $500,000 per
year? Does it make him happier? Does it generate any good
for society? I very much doubt it.

I also doubt it generates any good for a corporation's
investors. From what I can tell, CEO pay does not correlate
well with corporation performance.

This guy still makes too much, in my opinion; but he makes
less than a great many CEOs of large corporations, while
outperforming them.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-sw...85D0R920120614


"what does a person do with more than $500,000 per year? "

Easy question!
http://www.spacex.com/

At any rate if the Board and/or shareholders think they can
get same or better returns with less compensation they may
well hire someone else. And they are free to do so on any
given day!


And frequently they do :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

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  #152  
Old September 9th 17, 07:39 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 08:55:12 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Thursday, September 7, 2017 at 8:14:03 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 11:42:09 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

rPer AMuzi:
Plus livestock antibiotics. Excellent payout for the grower;
low cost, faster bigger growth. Eventually you're evolving
some really hardy bugs though...

That's what has been preying on my mind the whole time.

Numbers of animals, tons of antibiotics, and uncontrolled usage time
would seem to make human over-use all but trivial by comparison.

Given the expected consequences of a post-antibiotic era, I can't figure
out why livestock use of antibiotics is not recognized as a major
national security issue.

Only thing I can come up with is money changing hands...


Not only antibiotics but I believe that various hormones are also
used. I read that growth hormones given to cattle produce more lean
beef faster. And time is money :-)


Weight is money. That's why the growth hormones. Cattle are slaughtered pretty much at 14-16 months now. When I was a kid they free-ranged them and slaughtered them at 5 years old. Now all of my relatives are out of farming and ranching. The El Camino Real now runs right through where one cousin had a large Walnut orchard. One more great uncle sold his farm in Salinas and went back to Croatia. Another cousin leases his 40 acres to a factory farm operation in Tracy. But housing is encroaching and there's no telling how long that will last. I really hated the yucky job of milking cows. "Dad, let's not visit Bobby early in the morning."


I haven't been around the cattle business in years but from what I
read there is little if any free range cattle any more. I understand
it is straight into the feed lot as soon as they are weaned.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #153  
Old September 9th 17, 07:43 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 09:26:32 -0700 (PDT), Doug Landau
wrote:

On Friday, September 8, 2017 at 5:26:51 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/7/2017 10:05 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 7 Sep 2017 07:31:26 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 5:47:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 6 Sep 2017 12:00:14 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 1:05:25 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:

Destructive? Exercise? Swinging a pick for eight hours a day. Or doing
any other manual labour. How so?

Well, it's plain that you've never worked.

Quite the contrary. I grew up on a small New England farm where most
of the work was done by hand. Ditches for water pipes were 6 feet deep
to get below the frost line, hay for the animals was cut with a mowing
machine and then tedded, loaded on wagons and mowed away by hand.

I did "chores" commensurate with my size from the time I was 6 or 7
years old. Shoot, everybody did. Didn't they?

Yup, that paraphrases Winston Churchill, who actually said " Indeed it
has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except
for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

But still, the basic problem with democracy is the politician gets up
and says, "Vote for me." The audience says, "Why?"

As for capitalism.... what else is there?

There is socialism as described by Marx and Lenin.

Which doesn't work. China's current prosperity is largely due to a
disabling of the original state run economy and now incorporates a
modified capitalistic system.

John, enough of your bull****. I know what happens to people who swing picks 8 hours a day. The human body is not designed for that sort of thing and you end up like my brother with a degraded bone structure in your back and legs like my brother.


I can comment on your relatives but I've know a great many people that
worked their entire life without the problems you describe. I had a
great uncle that had been a fireman on ships, shoveling coal by hand,
and was in his late 60's or early 70's when he worked a while for my
father. I watched him mow around a 2 acre field with a hand scythe -
that is about 400 yards a lap. He'd keep a bottle of water in one
corner and stop for a drink when he got reached that corner.

My grandfather raised chickens, about 3,000 of them usually, with no
help at all. He heated the house with wood for years and spent every
September cutting wood with an axe and a hand saw and hauling it home
and stacking it in the "wood house".

I could go on but why bother, it was common when I was a young fellow
to see people work. I might add that the great uncle died at 86, my
grandfather at 87.

You believe that people can work like that even though with the reduction of such labor the human lifespan has increased by 50%.

Yup it sure has. Taking people from the earliest days in the U.S.
who's lives were well documented we have Thomas Jefferson, 83 when he
died, John Adams was 90, George Washington was a young 67 - but he
died due to blood loss from the then popular medical procedure of
bloodletting, George Wythe was 80, Paul Revere was 83 and Ben Franklin
was 84.

Current U.S. male life expectancy seems to be 79.3 and one article
states that it is decreasing.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/22/us-l...o-by-2030.html

Essentially it says that "Notable among poor-performing countries is
the USA, whose life expectancy at birth is already lower than most
other high-income countries, and is projected to fall further behind
such that its 2030 life expectancy at birth might be similar to the
Czech".

It's pretty plain that dementia or whatever is taking it's toll on you. Tell me again how the military lied to me.

If dementia has overtaken me it apparently has overtaken the majority
of the world's data gathering agencies also.


I can see where there would be differences from one job to
another[1] but I was never more fit than as the 'low man' on
a steel & concrete crew. There were no obese men on that
crew of about 40 guys including the foreman. Carrying steel,
setting up and breaking down forms etc is very good
exercise. Tying steel standing all day is not. The days we
ran steel up, with one man on each floor hand-over-hand to
the next level, was very hard work but that was only once a
week.

[1]Hod carriers (masons' assistants) had IMHO the worst job
but that, like much of the work done back then, is now
mechanized.


:-) :-) :-) I was a mason's assistant for a year. I never used a hod tho and rarely dealt with stairs. I mostly used a wheelbarrow on the driveways, and carried buckets of mud up 2-3 levels of scaffolding to the tops of chimneys

I did get the experience Tim describes - tossing 100-Lb sacks on my shoulder. It was fun. Except for the poof of cement dust in your face. I did a little masonry project 5 yrs ago (am 52) and threw one more sack on my shoulder. It was no longer fun.


And if you'd done as Milo of Croton and picked the bag up every day
you'd probably be carrying 5 of them today :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #154  
Old September 9th 17, 08:19 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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On 9/9/2017 12:44 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 22:40:02 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Replying to Tom's fanciful manderings:


-snip much-

Interestingly, my own career as a psychologist
could fall to automation as online counseling using a bot continues to
develop (and has been shown to work pretty well in treating, for
example, depression).



Yep nothing cheers a guy up like being told his brain isn't
right but he's unworthy of human conversation.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #155  
Old September 12th 17, 11:52 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tim McNamara
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On Sat, 09 Sep 2017 14:19:34 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/9/2017 12:44 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 22:40:02 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Replying to Tom's fanciful manderings:


-snip much-

Interestingly, my own career as a psychologist could fall to
automation as online counseling using a bot continues to develop (and
has been shown to work pretty well in treating, for example,
depression).



Yep nothing cheers a guy up like being told his brain isn't right but
he's unworthy of human conversation.


ROTFLMAO! What a great line!

Oddly enough, in the (thus far rather small) samples, there is at least
a subset of the population much more comfortable with talking to the bot
rather than a human therapist. I don't get it, but then I'm old- uphill
both ways barefoot in the snow with a headwind and get off my lawn old.
Or so it seems, as I work with people born after I started my current
job and almost all my doctors are younger than me...
  #156  
Old September 13th 17, 12:19 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 7,997
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On 9/12/2017 3:52 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:

snip

I don't get it, but then I'm old- uphill both ways barefoot in the snow with a headwind and get off my lawn old.


I had to do all that too. Plus I had to do it in South Florida where it
was miserably hot and humid for most of the year, with no breeze.
  #157  
Old September 13th 17, 04:39 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joy Beeson
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Posts: 1,002
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On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 17:52:19 -0500, Tim McNamara
wrote:

Oddly enough, in the (thus far rather small) samples, there is at least
a subset of the population much more comfortable with talking to the bot
rather than a human therapist. I don't get it, . . .


I do. When you're through spilling your guts to a bot, you can erase
it.

And you can be quite certain that it isn't giggling at you.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

  #158  
Old September 13th 17, 06:23 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
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Joy Beeson writes:

On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 17:52:19 -0500, Tim McNamara
wrote:

Oddly enough, in the (thus far rather small) samples, there is at least
a subset of the population much more comfortable with talking to the bot
rather than a human therapist. I don't get it, . . .


I do. When you're through spilling your guts to a bot, you can erase
it.


Isn't that why people talk to their cats?

And you can be quite certain that it isn't giggling at you.


Well, dogs anyway.

--
  #159  
Old September 13th 17, 10:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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On Wednesday, September 13, 2017 at 9:39:27 AM UTC-7, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 17:52:19 -0500, Tim McNamara
wrote:

Oddly enough, in the (thus far rather small) samples, there is at least
a subset of the population much more comfortable with talking to the bot
rather than a human therapist. I don't get it, . . .


I do. When you're through spilling your guts to a bot, you can erase
it.

And you can be quite certain that it isn't giggling at you.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/


Joy, no one would ever giggle at you save for your jokes.
  #160  
Old September 13th 17, 10:50 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Doug Landau
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Posts: 1,338
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On Wednesday, September 13, 2017 at 2:21:26 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, September 13, 2017 at 9:39:27 AM UTC-7, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 17:52:19 -0500, Tim McNamara
wrote:

Oddly enough, in the (thus far rather small) samples, there is at least
a subset of the population much more comfortable with talking to the bot
rather than a human therapist. I don't get it, . . .


I do. When you're through spilling your guts to a bot, you can erase
it.

And you can be quite certain that it isn't giggling at you.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/


Joy, no one would ever giggle at you save for your jokes.


Careful there
 




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