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  #71  
Old September 13th 17, 10:00 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,764
Default Road Discs

On 9/13/2017 1:13 PM, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, September 13, 2017 at 10:41:29 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/13/2017 11:17 AM, Doug Landau wrote:
On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 5:57:47 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 07:05:45 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 12:27:49 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 19:59:54 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 9/11/2017 6:40 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:18:38 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:10:11 PM UTC-5, sms wrote:
I'd wait for bikesdirect to get their Ultegra Titanium disc road bikes
back in stock. They sell out very fast since most serious riders are
moving from carbon fiber to titanium now. Then get a CroMo disc fork.


Serious riders are switching from carbon to titanium? Didn't know that. But then I don't claim to be a genius in every topic on earth. Just a couple of them for me.

Chromoly disc fork to replace a carbon disc fork? Why?

Because CF disc forks explode, leading to huge loss of life -- second only to heart disease as a cause of death in the United States. Where have you been? Mars?

Really, though, I don't know where all these "serious riders" are. I've seen zero Ti disc bikes with CroMo forks.

True, most riders use the CF fork that comes with the Ti bicycle. The
suggestion to switch to a CroMo fork was to prevent injury should the CF
fork fail, as they are prone to do.

Why in the world don't titanium bicycles come with titanium forks?
I've got an aluminum bicycle with aluminum forks; I've got steel
bicycles with steel forks...

Is there something wrong with this wonder metal?

Titanium is a very difficult material to manipulate. the bends for the top of the fork are extremely hard to do. Looking at a titanium bike you will see few if any bends at all.

That just isn't true at all. Working titanium is very much like
working stainless steel, and I'll add that while serving in Uncle
Sam's air force I've done both.

And, in fact I've come across a number of sources for titanium forks
in several different styles.
https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/tit...cle-forks.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesa...-bicycle-forks

Page not found. Doesn't everything on that site suck anyway tho?


Titanium is a material, not magic. Engineers/designers who
ignore physics fail in titanium as they would have failed in
any other medium:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/hand14.html

(I have a wonderful Ti road bike with matching Ti fork, no
complaints)


Made by whom? Thanks


Mine's the very last Panasonic PICS sold in the USA,
September 1989. That and probably the very first one are he
http://www.yellowjersey.org/pana.html

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Ads
  #72  
Old September 13th 17, 10:04 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,764
Default Road Discs

On 9/13/2017 2:59 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, September 13, 2017 at 10:41:29 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/13/2017 11:17 AM, Doug Landau wrote:
On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 5:57:47 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 07:05:45 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 12:27:49 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 19:59:54 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 9/11/2017 6:40 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:18:38 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:10:11 PM UTC-5, sms wrote:
I'd wait for bikesdirect to get their Ultegra Titanium disc road bikes
back in stock. They sell out very fast since most serious riders are
moving from carbon fiber to titanium now. Then get a CroMo disc fork.


Serious riders are switching from carbon to titanium? Didn't know that. But then I don't claim to be a genius in every topic on earth. Just a couple of them for me.

Chromoly disc fork to replace a carbon disc fork? Why?

Because CF disc forks explode, leading to huge loss of life -- second only to heart disease as a cause of death in the United States. Where have you been? Mars?

Really, though, I don't know where all these "serious riders" are. I've seen zero Ti disc bikes with CroMo forks.

True, most riders use the CF fork that comes with the Ti bicycle. The
suggestion to switch to a CroMo fork was to prevent injury should the CF
fork fail, as they are prone to do.

Why in the world don't titanium bicycles come with titanium forks?
I've got an aluminum bicycle with aluminum forks; I've got steel
bicycles with steel forks...

Is there something wrong with this wonder metal?

Titanium is a very difficult material to manipulate. the bends for the top of the fork are extremely hard to do. Looking at a titanium bike you will see few if any bends at all.

That just isn't true at all. Working titanium is very much like
working stainless steel, and I'll add that while serving in Uncle
Sam's air force I've done both.

And, in fact I've come across a number of sources for titanium forks
in several different styles.
https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/tit...cle-forks.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesa...-bicycle-forks

Page not found. Doesn't everything on that site suck anyway tho?


Titanium is a material, not magic. Engineers/designers who
ignore physics fail in titanium as they would have failed in
any other medium:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/hand14.html

(I have a wonderful Ti road bike with matching Ti fork, no
complaints)


Those pictures are pretty awful. How do you get braze to stick to titanium? I thought that titanium couldn't be brazed but required welding.


You're right about working/joining Ti.

It was a complete mess so farther down the page you can see
my replacement CrMo fabrication with forged steel ends.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #73  
Old September 13th 17, 11:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,872
Default Road Discs

On Wednesday, September 13, 2017 at 2:04:25 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/13/2017 2:59 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, September 13, 2017 at 10:41:29 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/13/2017 11:17 AM, Doug Landau wrote:
On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 5:57:47 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 07:05:45 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 12:27:49 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 19:59:54 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 9/11/2017 6:40 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:18:38 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:10:11 PM UTC-5, sms wrote:
I'd wait for bikesdirect to get their Ultegra Titanium disc road bikes
back in stock. They sell out very fast since most serious riders are
moving from carbon fiber to titanium now. Then get a CroMo disc fork.


Serious riders are switching from carbon to titanium? Didn't know that. But then I don't claim to be a genius in every topic on earth. Just a couple of them for me.

Chromoly disc fork to replace a carbon disc fork? Why?

Because CF disc forks explode, leading to huge loss of life -- second only to heart disease as a cause of death in the United States. Where have you been? Mars?

Really, though, I don't know where all these "serious riders" are. I've seen zero Ti disc bikes with CroMo forks.

True, most riders use the CF fork that comes with the Ti bicycle. The
suggestion to switch to a CroMo fork was to prevent injury should the CF
fork fail, as they are prone to do.

Why in the world don't titanium bicycles come with titanium forks?
I've got an aluminum bicycle with aluminum forks; I've got steel
bicycles with steel forks...

Is there something wrong with this wonder metal?

Titanium is a very difficult material to manipulate. the bends for the top of the fork are extremely hard to do. Looking at a titanium bike you will see few if any bends at all.

That just isn't true at all. Working titanium is very much like
working stainless steel, and I'll add that while serving in Uncle
Sam's air force I've done both.

And, in fact I've come across a number of sources for titanium forks
in several different styles.
https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/tit...cle-forks.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesa...-bicycle-forks

Page not found. Doesn't everything on that site suck anyway tho?


Titanium is a material, not magic. Engineers/designers who
ignore physics fail in titanium as they would have failed in
any other medium:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/hand14.html

(I have a wonderful Ti road bike with matching Ti fork, no
complaints)


Those pictures are pretty awful. How do you get braze to stick to titanium? I thought that titanium couldn't be brazed but required welding.


You're right about working/joining Ti.

It was a complete mess so farther down the page you can see
my replacement CrMo fabrication with forged steel ends.


My memory of the steel Japanese brands were exquisite quality but because of that a little more weight than other brands.
  #74  
Old September 14th 17, 03:01 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,148
Default Road Discs

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 06:13:50 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 5:57:47 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 07:05:45 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 12:27:49 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 19:59:54 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 9/11/2017 6:40 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:18:38 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:10:11 PM UTC-5, sms wrote:
I'd wait for bikesdirect to get their Ultegra Titanium disc road bikes
back in stock. They sell out very fast since most serious riders are
moving from carbon fiber to titanium now. Then get a CroMo disc fork.


Serious riders are switching from carbon to titanium? Didn't know that. But then I don't claim to be a genius in every topic on earth. Just a couple of them for me.

Chromoly disc fork to replace a carbon disc fork? Why?

Because CF disc forks explode, leading to huge loss of life -- second only to heart disease as a cause of death in the United States. Where have you been? Mars?

Really, though, I don't know where all these "serious riders" are. I've seen zero Ti disc bikes with CroMo forks.

True, most riders use the CF fork that comes with the Ti bicycle. The
suggestion to switch to a CroMo fork was to prevent injury should the CF
fork fail, as they are prone to do.

Why in the world don't titanium bicycles come with titanium forks?
I've got an aluminum bicycle with aluminum forks; I've got steel
bicycles with steel forks...

Is there something wrong with this wonder metal?

Titanium is a very difficult material to manipulate. the bends for the top of the fork are extremely hard to do. Looking at a titanium bike you will see few if any bends at all.


That just isn't true at all. Working titanium is very much like
working stainless steel, and I'll add that while serving in Uncle
Sam's air force I've done both.

And, in fact I've come across a number of sources for titanium forks
in several different styles.
https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/tit...cle-forks.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesa...-bicycle-forks
https://www.ticycles.com/store/?category=FORK
http://www.tsbcycles.com/titanium-fork/

So how come SMS's merry group aren't using them?


Did you look at how poorly designed and constructed those things are?


Which ones? They look like most of the forks I've seen.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #75  
Old September 14th 17, 03:12 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,148
Default Road Discs

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 09:17:48 -0700 (PDT), Doug Landau
wrote:

On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 5:57:47 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 07:05:45 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 12:27:49 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 19:59:54 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 9/11/2017 6:40 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:18:38 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:10:11 PM UTC-5, sms wrote:
I'd wait for bikesdirect to get their Ultegra Titanium disc road bikes
back in stock. They sell out very fast since most serious riders are
moving from carbon fiber to titanium now. Then get a CroMo disc fork.


Serious riders are switching from carbon to titanium? Didn't know that. But then I don't claim to be a genius in every topic on earth. Just a couple of them for me.

Chromoly disc fork to replace a carbon disc fork? Why?

Because CF disc forks explode, leading to huge loss of life -- second only to heart disease as a cause of death in the United States. Where have you been? Mars?

Really, though, I don't know where all these "serious riders" are. I've seen zero Ti disc bikes with CroMo forks.

True, most riders use the CF fork that comes with the Ti bicycle. The
suggestion to switch to a CroMo fork was to prevent injury should the CF
fork fail, as they are prone to do.

Why in the world don't titanium bicycles come with titanium forks?
I've got an aluminum bicycle with aluminum forks; I've got steel
bicycles with steel forks...

Is there something wrong with this wonder metal?

Titanium is a very difficult material to manipulate. the bends for the top of the fork are extremely hard to do. Looking at a titanium bike you will see few if any bends at all.


That just isn't true at all. Working titanium is very much like
working stainless steel, and I'll add that while serving in Uncle
Sam's air force I've done both.

And, in fact I've come across a number of sources for titanium forks
in several different styles.
https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/tit...cle-forks.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesa...-bicycle-forks


Page not found. Doesn't everything on that site suck anyway tho?


The first reference goes to a page with titanium forks. The second
pops up a "page not found" notice and then you can search for
"titanium forks".

I didn't study each fork offered in detail but generally I'd say that
seem to be straight tube forks similar to many shown on
http://tinyurl.com/yd5bdx4y


--
Cheers,

John B.

  #76  
Old September 14th 17, 03:20 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,148
Default Road Discs

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 16:04:13 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/13/2017 2:59 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, September 13, 2017 at 10:41:29 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/13/2017 11:17 AM, Doug Landau wrote:
On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 5:57:47 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 07:05:45 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 12:27:49 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 19:59:54 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 9/11/2017 6:40 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:18:38 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:10:11 PM UTC-5, sms wrote:
I'd wait for bikesdirect to get their Ultegra Titanium disc road bikes
back in stock. They sell out very fast since most serious riders are
moving from carbon fiber to titanium now. Then get a CroMo disc fork.


Serious riders are switching from carbon to titanium? Didn't know that. But then I don't claim to be a genius in every topic on earth. Just a couple of them for me.

Chromoly disc fork to replace a carbon disc fork? Why?

Because CF disc forks explode, leading to huge loss of life -- second only to heart disease as a cause of death in the United States. Where have you been? Mars?

Really, though, I don't know where all these "serious riders" are. I've seen zero Ti disc bikes with CroMo forks.

True, most riders use the CF fork that comes with the Ti bicycle. The
suggestion to switch to a CroMo fork was to prevent injury should the CF
fork fail, as they are prone to do.

Why in the world don't titanium bicycles come with titanium forks?
I've got an aluminum bicycle with aluminum forks; I've got steel
bicycles with steel forks...

Is there something wrong with this wonder metal?

Titanium is a very difficult material to manipulate. the bends for the top of the fork are extremely hard to do. Looking at a titanium bike you will see few if any bends at all.

That just isn't true at all. Working titanium is very much like
working stainless steel, and I'll add that while serving in Uncle
Sam's air force I've done both.

And, in fact I've come across a number of sources for titanium forks
in several different styles.
https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/tit...cle-forks.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesa...-bicycle-forks

Page not found. Doesn't everything on that site suck anyway tho?


Titanium is a material, not magic. Engineers/designers who
ignore physics fail in titanium as they would have failed in
any other medium:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/hand14.html

(I have a wonderful Ti road bike with matching Ti fork, no
complaints)


Those pictures are pretty awful. How do you get braze to stick to titanium? I thought that titanium couldn't be brazed but required welding.


You're right about working/joining Ti.

It was a complete mess so farther down the page you can see
my replacement CrMo fabrication with forged steel ends.


Technically titanium can be silver soldered using pure silver or pure
aluminum, I believe, although I don't find a reference for joint
strength and all the titanium I've seen fabricated was welded in an
inert atmosphere.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #77  
Old September 14th 17, 04:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,872
Default Road Discs

On Wednesday, September 13, 2017 at 7:20:41 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 16:04:13 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/13/2017 2:59 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, September 13, 2017 at 10:41:29 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/13/2017 11:17 AM, Doug Landau wrote:
On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 5:57:47 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 07:05:45 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 12:27:49 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 19:59:54 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 9/11/2017 6:40 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:18:38 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:10:11 PM UTC-5, sms wrote:
I'd wait for bikesdirect to get their Ultegra Titanium disc road bikes
back in stock. They sell out very fast since most serious riders are
moving from carbon fiber to titanium now. Then get a CroMo disc fork.


Serious riders are switching from carbon to titanium? Didn't know that. But then I don't claim to be a genius in every topic on earth. Just a couple of them for me.

Chromoly disc fork to replace a carbon disc fork? Why?

Because CF disc forks explode, leading to huge loss of life -- second only to heart disease as a cause of death in the United States. Where have you been? Mars?

Really, though, I don't know where all these "serious riders" are. I've seen zero Ti disc bikes with CroMo forks.

True, most riders use the CF fork that comes with the Ti bicycle.. The
suggestion to switch to a CroMo fork was to prevent injury should the CF
fork fail, as they are prone to do.

Why in the world don't titanium bicycles come with titanium forks?
I've got an aluminum bicycle with aluminum forks; I've got steel
bicycles with steel forks...

Is there something wrong with this wonder metal?

Titanium is a very difficult material to manipulate. the bends for the top of the fork are extremely hard to do. Looking at a titanium bike you will see few if any bends at all.

That just isn't true at all. Working titanium is very much like
working stainless steel, and I'll add that while serving in Uncle
Sam's air force I've done both.

And, in fact I've come across a number of sources for titanium forks
in several different styles.
https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/tit...cle-forks.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesa...-bicycle-forks

Page not found. Doesn't everything on that site suck anyway tho?


Titanium is a material, not magic. Engineers/designers who
ignore physics fail in titanium as they would have failed in
any other medium:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/hand14.html

(I have a wonderful Ti road bike with matching Ti fork, no
complaints)

Those pictures are pretty awful. How do you get braze to stick to titanium? I thought that titanium couldn't be brazed but required welding.


You're right about working/joining Ti.

It was a complete mess so farther down the page you can see
my replacement CrMo fabrication with forged steel ends.


Technically titanium can be silver soldered using pure silver or pure
aluminum, I believe, although I don't find a reference for joint
strength and all the titanium I've seen fabricated was welded in an
inert atmosphere.


By all means ride a silver soldered titanium fork. Aluminum won't flow so you cannot "braze" a lug with it.

All of the forks that I looked at had the extremely bad design of a straight steerer with legs welded onto the sides of it. I have used steel versions of this and the legs bow out and the tire hits the steerer. As proof of this the paint was torn off of the top inside of the fork and the tire had it's rubber worn down rapidly.

  #78  
Old September 19th 17, 10:11 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Roger Merriman[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 109
Default Road Discs

jbeattie wrote:
So, my SuperSix was crushed in a roof-rack accident and last weak my
Roubaix was stolen out of the garage that I left open all night. I've
done that many times -- apparently one too many. I'm down to a gravel
bike and my commuter -- the reborn warranty CAADX (which is a great bike).

The gravel bike is a pig, but I'll use that for fall/winter/spring sport
riding. I want a fast bike, though -- and I've got a line on a nice bike
that I can get with rim brakes or discs, but the disc model will not be
available until December -- which really means that I get to ride it in
dry weather some time around May. I can get a rim brake model by the end of the month.

All the shops are pushing discs, and I did like the discs on the Roubaix
and on my gravel bike. I know this is absolutely the wrong group to ask
because it's wall-to-wall curmudgeons, but if you were buying your last
nice road bike, would you go rim brakes or discs? It will be a dry
weather bike or ridden in the rain only because of bad luck. There would
be no real weight penalty because the bike is so light to start with. I'm
not aero, so I don't care about the aero penalty with discs.

My concern with getting rim brakes is not really even a performance issue
because in dry weather, I've never had a problem with rim brakes -- but
to listen to the guys at the local shop, rim brakes are going the way of
the dodo. I'm worried about buying an antique!

-- Jay Beattie.









You will be able to get rim brakes and bits for them, I’d though though my
lifetime, I’m currently 42, my dad has managed to get some new tyres for
the NewHudson that they have for rolling along after grandchildren!

Roger Merriman

 




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