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  #21  
Old September 11th 17, 06:04 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tosspot[_3_]
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On 10/09/17 00:28, jbeattie wrote:
So, my SuperSix was crushed in a roof-rack accident and last weak my Roubaix was stolen out of the garage that I left open all night. I've done that many times -- apparently one too many. I'm down to a gravel bike and my commuter -- the reborn warranty CAADX (which is a great bike).

The gravel bike is a pig, but I'll use that for fall/winter/spring sport riding. I want a fast bike, though -- and I've got a line on a nice bike that I can get with rim brakes or discs, but the disc model will not be available until December -- which really means that I get to ride it in dry weather some time around May. I can get a rim brake model by the end of the month.

All the shops are pushing discs, and I did like the discs on the Roubaix and on my gravel bike. I know this is absolutely the wrong group to ask because it's wall-to-wall curmudgeons, but if you were buying your last nice road bike, would you go rim brakes or discs? It will be a dry weather bike or ridden in the rain only because of bad luck. There would be no real weight penalty because the bike is so light to start with. I'm not aero, so I don't care about the aero penalty with discs.

My concern with getting rim brakes is not really even a performance issue because in dry weather, I've never had a problem with rim brakes -- but to listen to the guys at the local shop, rim brakes are going the way of the dodo. I'm worried about buying an antique!


I'm discs all round, but imho, a road bike looks better with rim brakes.
Aesthetics is all there is in it for me.


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  #22  
Old September 11th 17, 10:20 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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On Sunday, September 10, 2017 at 5:31:04 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Sunday, September 10, 2017 at 4:24:13 AM UTC-7, Ned Mantei wrote:
On 10-09-17 00:28, jbeattie wrote:
So, my SuperSix was crushed in a roof-rack accident and last weak my Roubaix was stolen out of the garage that I left open all night. I've done that many times -- apparently one too many. I'm down to a gravel bike and my commuter -- the reborn warranty CAADX (which is a great bike).

The gravel bike is a pig, but I'll use that for fall/winter/spring sport riding. I want a fast bike, though -- and I've got a line on a nice bike that I can get with rim brakes or discs, but the disc model will not be available until December -- which really means that I get to ride it in dry weather some time around May. I can get a rim brake model by the end of the month.

All the shops are pushing discs, and I did like the discs on the Roubaix and on my gravel bike. I know this is absolutely the wrong group to ask because it's wall-to-wall curmudgeons, but if you were buying your last nice road bike, would you go rim brakes or discs? It will be a dry weather bike or ridden in the rain only because of bad luck. There would be no real weight penalty because the bike is so light to start with. I'm not aero, so I don't care about the aero penalty with discs.

My concern with getting rim brakes is not really even a performance issue because in dry weather, I've never had a problem with rim brakes -- but to listen to the guys at the local shop, rim brakes are going the way of the dodo. I'm worried about buying an antique!

-- Jay Beattie.


I have bikes with rim brakes and one with disc brakes. My experience:

1) With rim brakes obviously the rims will wear out after some years. I
spoke new rims to the old hub and spokes. Since I have very little
practice doing this, it takes me maybe 4 hours to get the spokes
transferred, the wheel reasonably centered and round, and the spokes
evenly tensioned.

2) I bought a mountain bike with disc brakes last October. The first
change of brake pads came in April, and a few days ago I had to install
a new disc on the back wheel (the original disc was worn to the safe
limit). Both things are a lot quicker than spoking a rim, but at least
here in Switzerland rather expensive.

3) With rim brakes I would have pain in my hands from braking during a
long descent in the mountains. Much less or no problem with disc brakes,
which require less pressure. But I'm old, and a younger person probably
wouldn't notice this.

4) Again as an issue on very long descents, I no longer worry about a
tube failure because the rim overheated (happened to me once many years
ago, https://flic.kr/p/9XmmWn ). Disc brakes can also overheat, and then
fade, but this hasn't been a problem for me.

Overall I prefer the disc brakes, but should note that I have no
experience with road bikes.


Ned, my experience is that the so-called advantages of disk brakes are their downfall.

1. Where you need the brakes the most - descents particularly on twisting roads or sharp turns and the like - you have your hands on the brakes. Disks are so powerful that if you hit a bump you are very likely to pull on the brakes while trying to keep yourself from being thrown off of the bike. This pulls the brake on and with all it's power can stop the front wheel completely rotating the entire bike around the front wheel. Voice of experience.



Tom you are the only one I know that have this problem. Descending a twisty steep road you are in the drops with a finger on the lever. Bumps give a vertical motion, braking need a horizontal motions.

On my cross bike off road I am on the hoods all the time and even then I have no problems with bumps, drops or whatever.

Either you have ****ty brakes, poor technique or bumps we don't have here, even off road.

Lou
  #23  
Old September 11th 17, 03:43 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 4,287
Default Road Discs

On 2017-09-10 10:53, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/10/2017 11:35 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-09-09 15:28, jbeattie wrote:



[...]

My concern with getting rim brakes is not really even a
performance
issue because in dry weather, I've never had a problem
with rim
brakes -- but to listen to the guys at the local shop, rim
brakes are
going the way of the dodo. I'm worried about buying an
antique!


Nah. Rim brake pads will be available for decades. At least
until you and I are in a nursing home.

However, dry weather is not always that dry. Consider a big
rain storm of which you have many up there. Then the sun
comes out and you think that this ought to be the perfect
time to ride. Still nice and cool but no rain. At 20mph you
go through a long puddle, no big deal. Then right afterwards
grandpa Miller doesn't see you and pulls out of the gas
station right in front of you. You hit the brakes ... two
seconds of ... nothing.

I even had brake delay when I rode through overspray from
landscaping sprinklers next to the road. On a 100F day that
is a refreshing event. Until you need the brakes right there.


Joerg, all the current Campagnolo Ergo shifters are hydraulic brake and
also cable compatible.
https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear...ted-disc-brake


Ah, finally, progress! Thanks, I didn't know that. However, doesn't
Campagnolo stuff have price levels like Gucci apparel?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #24  
Old September 11th 17, 03:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: 2,863
Default Road Discs

On Sunday, September 10, 2017 at 5:11:08 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 9/9/2017 3:28 PM, jbeattie wrote:
So, my SuperSix was crushed in a roof-rack accident and last weak my

Roubaix was stolen out of the garage that I left open all night. I've
done that many times -- apparently one too many. I'm down to a gravel
bike and my commuter -- the reborn warranty CAADX (which is a great bike).

At one place I owned I installed a device that automatically closes the
garage door after three minutes unless you disable it. I used the timer
for the light bulbs on the garage door opener to trigger a relay that
shorted the open/close terminals momentarily. I need to build another
one since I've done the same thing as you on occasion.

The gravel bike is a pig, but I'll use that for fall/winter/spring

sport riding. I want a fast bike, though -- and I've got a line on a
nice bike that I can get with rim brakes or discs, but the disc model
will not be available until December -- which really means that I get to
ride it in dry weather some time around May. I can get a rim brake
model by the end of the month.

All the shops are pushing discs, and I did like the discs on the

Roubaix and on my gravel bike. I know this is absolutely the wrong group
to ask because it's wall-to-wall curmudgeons, but if you were buying
your last nice road bike, would you go rim brakes or discs? It will be a
dry weather bike or ridden in the rain only because of bad luck. There
would be no real weight penalty because the bike is so light to start
with. I'm not aero, so I don't care about the aero penalty with discs.

My concern with getting rim brakes is not really even a performance

issue because in dry weather, I've never had a problem with rim brakes
-- but to listen to the guys at the local shop, rim brakes are going the
way of the dodo. I'm worried about buying an antique!

I SPIT on rim brakes.

Go for a titanium frame with disc brakes. https://www.deanbikes.com/


Yeah, that's a really great idea when just the couplers on that bike are $900. For my entire totally reconditioned Pinarello I'll have less with new Campy wheels and a record group.
  #25  
Old September 11th 17, 04:12 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 2,863
Default Road Discs

On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 2:20:53 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, September 10, 2017 at 5:31:04 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Sunday, September 10, 2017 at 4:24:13 AM UTC-7, Ned Mantei wrote:
On 10-09-17 00:28, jbeattie wrote:
So, my SuperSix was crushed in a roof-rack accident and last weak my Roubaix was stolen out of the garage that I left open all night. I've done that many times -- apparently one too many. I'm down to a gravel bike and my commuter -- the reborn warranty CAADX (which is a great bike).

The gravel bike is a pig, but I'll use that for fall/winter/spring sport riding. I want a fast bike, though -- and I've got a line on a nice bike that I can get with rim brakes or discs, but the disc model will not be available until December -- which really means that I get to ride it in dry weather some time around May. I can get a rim brake model by the end of the month.

All the shops are pushing discs, and I did like the discs on the Roubaix and on my gravel bike. I know this is absolutely the wrong group to ask because it's wall-to-wall curmudgeons, but if you were buying your last nice road bike, would you go rim brakes or discs? It will be a dry weather bike or ridden in the rain only because of bad luck. There would be no real weight penalty because the bike is so light to start with. I'm not aero, so I don't care about the aero penalty with discs.

My concern with getting rim brakes is not really even a performance issue because in dry weather, I've never had a problem with rim brakes -- but to listen to the guys at the local shop, rim brakes are going the way of the dodo. I'm worried about buying an antique!

-- Jay Beattie.


I have bikes with rim brakes and one with disc brakes. My experience:

1) With rim brakes obviously the rims will wear out after some years. I
spoke new rims to the old hub and spokes. Since I have very little
practice doing this, it takes me maybe 4 hours to get the spokes
transferred, the wheel reasonably centered and round, and the spokes
evenly tensioned.

2) I bought a mountain bike with disc brakes last October. The first
change of brake pads came in April, and a few days ago I had to install
a new disc on the back wheel (the original disc was worn to the safe
limit). Both things are a lot quicker than spoking a rim, but at least
here in Switzerland rather expensive.

3) With rim brakes I would have pain in my hands from braking during a
long descent in the mountains. Much less or no problem with disc brakes,
which require less pressure. But I'm old, and a younger person probably
wouldn't notice this.

4) Again as an issue on very long descents, I no longer worry about a
tube failure because the rim overheated (happened to me once many years
ago, https://flic.kr/p/9XmmWn ). Disc brakes can also overheat, and then
fade, but this hasn't been a problem for me.

Overall I prefer the disc brakes, but should note that I have no
experience with road bikes.


Ned, my experience is that the so-called advantages of disk brakes are their downfall.

1. Where you need the brakes the most - descents particularly on twisting roads or sharp turns and the like - you have your hands on the brakes. Disks are so powerful that if you hit a bump you are very likely to pull on the brakes while trying to keep yourself from being thrown off of the bike. This pulls the brake on and with all it's power can stop the front wheel completely rotating the entire bike around the front wheel. Voice of experience.



Tom you are the only one I know that have this problem. Descending a twisty steep road you are in the drops with a finger on the lever. Bumps give a vertical motion, braking need a horizontal motions.

On my cross bike off road I am on the hoods all the time and even then I have no problems with bumps, drops or whatever.

Either you have ****ty brakes, poor technique or bumps we don't have here, even off road.


Lou, I haven't any idea at all how you ride. Telling me I don't know how to ride is pretty silly when apparently you ride a cruiser around on flat roads on a campus or some such where you never see real bumps.

One finger on the brakes indeed! Apparently you ride down hills at 40+ mph with your hands off of the bars.
  #26  
Old September 11th 17, 04:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: 6,021
Default Road Discs

On Sunday, September 10, 2017 at 8:06:25 PM UTC-6, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, September 10, 2017 at 6:06:12 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Awww condolances...inside job. Bummer bummer.

Jay....you bought a try with gravel geometry ..whose at that shop...eyeball JD ?

Fairly, buy a bike with discs. Throw darts....

Have you visited n ridden around Teton ?


Yes, the Tetons are on the TransAm route. I stayed in a rescue mission in Jackson Hole and had to suffer through a sermon to get a spot on the floor for my sleeping bag. And then these other guys talked all night -- some guy from Alaska talking about grizzly bears. I kid you not. Shut the f*** up! I hurt my knee grinding gears and popped a pain pill, which put me to sleep. My girlfriend had to stay in the girl's dorm, which was plush by comparison.

Side story: my father was a small town pharmacist and put together a bag of drugs -- from antibiotics, anti-nausea/diarrhea, pain pills, etc. A physician and family friend signed the scripts. Dr. Jones -- he looked like he was right out of Norman Rockwell painting.

- Jay Beattie.


amazing amazing .... I am impressed. Farthest I go is over the hill n back, 100 miles no more. No stamina. Your dad feed you vitamins ?

traveling often have a boat hull on the van roof.

the canoe carrier canoe supports, canoes mount upside down, are 2 wider than hull 2x8's. The new Encounter thwarts match the 2/8 so I bought a humongous Bosch 1.25 spade bit n chopped 2 holes thru ...the tuba ....for chains n combos.

There's an Omega shock sensor under the rack deck/canoe carrier.

I am unreal paranoid abt leaving stuff exposed. Oregon n Cal are esp difficult. There's a pathological criminal or crazed mill worker under every rock n slab

  #27  
Old September 11th 17, 04:52 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 2,584
Default Road Discs

On Sunday, September 10, 2017 at 9:11:16 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/9/2017 5:28 PM, jbeattie wrote:
So, my SuperSix was crushed in a roof-rack accident and last weak my Roubaix was stolen out of the garage that I left open all night. I've done that many times -- apparently one too many. I'm down to a gravel bike and my commuter -- the reborn warranty CAADX (which is a great bike).

The gravel bike is a pig, but I'll use that for fall/winter/spring sport riding. I want a fast bike, though -- and I've got a line on a nice bike that I can get with rim brakes or discs, but the disc model will not be available until December -- which really means that I get to ride it in dry weather some time around May. I can get a rim brake model by the end of the month.

All the shops are pushing discs, and I did like the discs on the Roubaix and on my gravel bike. I know this is absolutely the wrong group to ask because it's wall-to-wall curmudgeons, but if you were buying your last nice road bike, would you go rim brakes or discs? It will be a dry weather bike or ridden in the rain only because of bad luck. There would be no real weight penalty because the bike is so light to start with. I'm not aero, so I don't care about the aero penalty with discs.

My concern with getting rim brakes is not really even a performance issue because in dry weather, I've never had a problem with rim brakes -- but to listen to the guys at the local shop, rim brakes are going the way of the dodo. I'm worried about buying an antique!


No suggestion on your specific question but speaking as an
Industry Professional, I think my record for selling one
customer his "final perfect bike to last the rest of my
life" is six bicycles, 3 or 4 is amazingly common. Many of
those guys will be back again too.


So much of this is just market-driven angst. Discs have a nice feel and are powerful and do work better in the rain, but that is different from rim brakes being inadequate or dangerous.

People develop a preference and then the last-thing becomes unworkable or dangerous. "I used to ride 23mm tires, but 25s are so much more positive. You'll die riding 23mm tires!" Then I think, "didn't I race on 19mm and 21mm?"

I was talking to my son yesterday, and he rides an Emonda with rim brakes and CF wheels. So, I asked him "where did you ride today," and he says Big Cottonwood with some side routes and a climb on the way home -- maybe 6,000 -7,000 feet of climbing and some seriously steep descending on the side routes. Any problems? No. His friends use rim brakes, and they do ridiculous amounts of climbing -- one just did 31,000 feet in a day (the whole Everest thing). And then I think back on my decades of rim brake experience and wonder why I'm even worried -- except for the anxiety caused by choices. Not that discs would be super-sweet and maybe even reduce some hand fatigue, but the idea that they are necessary or that rim brakes are dangerous is kind of out there.


-- Jay Beattie.
  #28  
Old September 11th 17, 05:38 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Doug Landau
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Posts: 1,206
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On Saturday, September 9, 2017 at 3:28:59 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
So, my SuperSix was crushed in a roof-rack accident and last weak my Roubaix was stolen out of the garage that I left open all night. I've done that many times -- apparently one too many. I'm down to a gravel bike and my commuter -- the reborn warranty CAADX (which is a great bike).

The gravel bike is a pig, but I'll use that for fall/winter/spring sport riding. I want a fast bike, though -- and I've got a line on a nice bike that I can get with rim brakes or discs, but the disc model will not be available until December -- which really means that I get to ride it in dry weather some time around May. I can get a rim brake model by the end of the month.

All the shops are pushing discs, and I did like the discs on the Roubaix and on my gravel bike. I know this is absolutely the wrong group to ask because it's wall-to-wall curmudgeons, but if you were buying your last nice road bike, would you go rim brakes or discs? It will be a dry weather bike or ridden in the rain only because of bad luck. There would be no real weight penalty because the bike is so light to start with. I'm not aero, so I don't care about the aero penalty with discs.

My concern with getting rim brakes is not really even a performance issue because in dry weather, I've never had a problem with rim brakes -- but to listen to the guys at the local shop, rim brakes are going the way of the dodo. I'm worried about buying an antique!

-- Jay Beattie.


FATE has given you another chance to redeem yourself

http://bikesdirect.com/products/road....htm#discbrake

  #29  
Old September 11th 17, 08:50 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: 1,241
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On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 9:43:20 AM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:

Ah, finally, progress! Thanks, I didn't know that. However, doesn't
Campagnolo stuff have price levels like Gucci apparel?

--
Regards, Joerg


Only if you buy your Campagnolo from USA stores. For good prices on Campagnolo, order from German, France, Britain internet shops. Not much different than Shimano prices. And Shimano is much cheaper from Europe too. If you buy bike parts from the USA, you are way over spending.
  #30  
Old September 11th 17, 08:56 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: 78
Default Road Discs

On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:13:00 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 2:20:53 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, September 10, 2017 at 5:31:04 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Sunday, September 10, 2017 at 4:24:13 AM UTC-7, Ned Mantei wrote:
On 10-09-17 00:28, jbeattie wrote:
So, my SuperSix was crushed in a roof-rack accident and last weak my Roubaix was stolen out of the garage that I left open all night. I've done that many times -- apparently one too many. I'm down to a gravel bike and my commuter -- the reborn warranty CAADX (which is a great bike).

The gravel bike is a pig, but I'll use that for fall/winter/spring sport riding. I want a fast bike, though -- and I've got a line on a nice bike that I can get with rim brakes or discs, but the disc model will not be available until December -- which really means that I get to ride it in dry weather some time around May. I can get a rim brake model by the end of the month.

All the shops are pushing discs, and I did like the discs on the Roubaix and on my gravel bike. I know this is absolutely the wrong group to ask because it's wall-to-wall curmudgeons, but if you were buying your last nice road bike, would you go rim brakes or discs? It will be a dry weather bike or ridden in the rain only because of bad luck. There would be no real weight penalty because the bike is so light to start with. I'm not aero, so I don't care about the aero penalty with discs.

My concern with getting rim brakes is not really even a performance issue because in dry weather, I've never had a problem with rim brakes -- but to listen to the guys at the local shop, rim brakes are going the way of the dodo. I'm worried about buying an antique!

-- Jay Beattie.


I have bikes with rim brakes and one with disc brakes. My experience:

1) With rim brakes obviously the rims will wear out after some years. I
spoke new rims to the old hub and spokes. Since I have very little
practice doing this, it takes me maybe 4 hours to get the spokes
transferred, the wheel reasonably centered and round, and the spokes
evenly tensioned.

2) I bought a mountain bike with disc brakes last October. The first
change of brake pads came in April, and a few days ago I had to install
a new disc on the back wheel (the original disc was worn to the safe
limit). Both things are a lot quicker than spoking a rim, but at least
here in Switzerland rather expensive.

3) With rim brakes I would have pain in my hands from braking during a
long descent in the mountains. Much less or no problem with disc brakes,
which require less pressure. But I'm old, and a younger person probably
wouldn't notice this.

4) Again as an issue on very long descents, I no longer worry about a
tube failure because the rim overheated (happened to me once many years
ago, https://flic.kr/p/9XmmWn ). Disc brakes can also overheat, and then
fade, but this hasn't been a problem for me.

Overall I prefer the disc brakes, but should note that I have no
experience with road bikes.

Ned, my experience is that the so-called advantages of disk brakes are their downfall.

1. Where you need the brakes the most - descents particularly on twisting roads or sharp turns and the like - you have your hands on the brakes. Disks are so powerful that if you hit a bump you are very likely to pull on the brakes while trying to keep yourself from being thrown off of the bike. This pulls the brake on and with all it's power can stop the front wheel completely rotating the entire bike around the front wheel. Voice of experience.



Tom you are the only one I know that have this problem. Descending a twisty steep road you are in the drops with a finger on the lever. Bumps give a vertical motion, braking need a horizontal motions.

On my cross bike off road I am on the hoods all the time and even then I have no problems with bumps, drops or whatever.

Either you have ****ty brakes, poor technique or bumps we don't have here, even off road.


Lou, I haven't any idea at all how you ride. Telling me I don't know how to ride is pretty silly when apparently you ride a cruiser around on flat roads on a campus or some such where you never see real bumps.

One finger on the brakes indeed! Apparently you ride down hills at 40+ mph with your hands off of the bars.


Tom, I'm not telling you that you don't know how to ride and poor technique wasn't my first option why you warn people that riding over a bump can lock your front wheel with (too) powerful disk brakes. That makes me more curious.

Tom I ride a cross bike with disk brakes off road, it doesn't get bumpier that that even here in pancake flat Netherlands.

We don't have any mountains that is true but I live in the hilly part of the Netherlands, Joerg is always talking about and close to Belgium where they have the worst roads. However the real famous mountains are only one day drive away. One or two times a year I spend a week there and that for almost 30 years so I did my share of climbing and descending.

He, look even without any finger on the brakes:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ztXTQaSqdl7RRs8B3

Even on the descent of the Stelvio I and many others don't need more than two fingers on the brake lever (rimbrakes):

https://photos.app.goo.gl/6yb8NpaAhgHp9s2w2

So why you replaced your disk brakes with V brakes remains a mystery to me.

Lou
 




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