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Preserving polished aluminum



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 31st 17, 02:32 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,468
Default Preserving polished aluminum

On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 17:52:34 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

A KNOCKOUT
https://media.defense.gov/2007/Oct/2...-1234S-008.JPG

I'll raise you 3 more engines:
https://www.eaa.org/~/media/images/news/2015-briefing/2015-04-docrollout2-960px.jpg
http://www.warbirdsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/Screen-Shot-2016-05-11-at-9.02.33-PM.jpg
http://www.warbirdsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/Docs-Rollout-06.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU0f4VUDGR0

"Doc" also flew at Oshkosh this week:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgdEI3-GaAg
(Mostly at beginning and again at end of video).

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Ads
  #12  
Old July 31st 17, 03:01 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,922
Default Preserving polished aluminum

On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 13:14:42 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 7/30/2017 10:07 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, July 30, 2017 at 2:00:23 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:


Does anyone have any suggestions on how, or with what, to coat highly
polished aluminum to, at least, reduce the corrosion to a reasonable
level? Say a once a year polish?


http://www.wikihow.com/Anodize-Aluminum

Long term polished aluminum usually has a finished layer of some wear resistant material such as two part urethane clear coat.


I remember when the pre-Rodale _Bicycling!_ magazine had an article by
Fred DeLong on how to anodize bike parts at home. IIRC, he used a 12V
car battery as a power source. Not that I ever did it.

Those were the days a person could frequently learn something from a
bike magazine. Now it's mostly which bike you MUST buy this month, or
which shorts make your legs look sexiest.


Yes, anodizing can be done with a battery charger, battery acid and a
plastic pot, but what little I have done leaves a sort of "matt"
finish and I wanted a glaring, glossy, finish.

I didn't try urethane clear coat but they might be a solution as the
spray on lacquer didn't work and the thinned epoxy didn't either
although that might have been lack of preparation.

There is a shop here that decants gallon cans of urethane into small
(half pint?) cans so if he has clear coat it would be a cheap
experiment. I'll give it a try next time.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #13  
Old July 31st 17, 03:30 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,922
Default Preserving polished aluminum

On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 12:17:55 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 13:14:42 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

I remember when the pre-Rodale _Bicycling!_ magazine had an article by
Fred DeLong on how to anodize bike parts at home. IIRC, he used a 12V
car battery as a power source. Not that I ever did it.


"Anodizing Aluminum Bicycle Components"
http://www.nonlintec.com/anodizing/
There are some additional interesting links near the bottom of the
page. Mo
http://www.bryanpryor.com/anodizing/
http://astro.neutral.org/anodise.shtml

"Tutorial: Polishing Bicycle Parts"
http://theradavist.com/2009/10/tutorial-polishing-bicycle-parts/


Not to be snooty but I've been polishing things for a lot of years
now, with the proper equipment :-)


Those were the days a person could frequently learn something from a
bike magazine. Now it's mostly which bike you MUST buy this month, or
which shorts make your legs look sexiest.


Hmmm... I should read some of that. After a triple bypass operation,
where the surgeons borrowed a vein from my leg, I could use some
advice on sexy leg fashions and camouflage. Riding with one leg in
shorts, and the other in full length pants, doesn't seem to attract
the ladies.


In some societies scars were a compliment to male beauty.


Drivel: The same thing happened with Home Power Magazine:
https://www.homepower.com
Originally (1987), it was full of do-it-thyself articles. However, as
grid tied solar became more popular, it's now mostly product reviews,
code compliance, and politics. I still subscribe, but I sometimes
wonder why I bother. The price of success is pollution.


A friend recently recommended "Popular Mechanics" magazine. A
publication that once printed articles about building your own 60 HP
Ford powered midget racer and how to build an arc welder out of an
aircraft alternator, and now publishes articles entitled "does it hurt
to pee on your lawn".

But I do believe that the "modern" (would one say?) type of articles
reflect the interests of the readers. How many people would leave the
comfort of the air conditioned Television Room and the 60 inch TV to
actually get their hands dirty building a midget racer.... or an arc
welder? (Or even know what an arc welder is?)

But the thought comes to mind, are Modern Americans actually intent on
discovering whether one should "pee on the lawn", or not? Sufficiently
so that a national magazine would publish an article concerning what
dirty little boys used to do, with no lessons whatsoever?
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #14  
Old July 31st 17, 03:42 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,922
Default Preserving polished aluminum

On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 10:14:15 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 7/30/2017 4:00 AM, John B. wrote:

I've got quite a few aluminum bits and pieces from older bikes that
are pretty shoddy looking with nicks and dents and corrosion. I can
clean them up with a "flap" wheel and then polish then with the
usually buffing wheels and decreasing compound grits until they have a
high polish but once back on a bicycle again they seem to corrode
rather rapidly and in a few months end up looking sort of "splotched"
and dull, which of course is exactly what bare aluminum does in
contact with air.

I've tried a number of schemes to preserve the polish such as heavy
paste wax and even a coat of clear lacquer or in one case thinned
epoxy resin. This wasn't exactly successful as the wax disappears
quickly and the lacquer tends to chip and even the thinned epoxy tends
to flaked off in places.

Shimano seems to coat much of their aluminum bits with some sort of
"silver paint" which obviously isn't just that as it seems to last for
years.

I would prefer the look of highly polished aluminum (without the
corrosion) but that obviously will take considerable and continued
labour the way I am doing it at present.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how, or with what, to coat highly
polished aluminum to, at least, reduce the corrosion to a reasonable
level? Say a once a year polish?



Classic French equipment in bare aluminum looks fantastic
with Simichrome or any similar metal polish on a cotton
cloth. Trouble is, as we both found, regular cleaning and
polishing is required to maintain that finish.
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/mikipv9.jpg


Exactly :-)


Campagnolo classic cranks had a deep clear anodize which is
more durable but an absolute pain once nicked through.
Filing out the damage followed up with wet sand and then
rouge on a cotton wheel leaves a 'hole' in the finish and so
you're back to the prior paragraph.

If you can accept painted rather than metal aesthetically,
consult your local auto paint supplier - the guy who sells
to body shops. Metal etch and two-part primer for aluminum
are standard items, after which a silver[1] metallic
catalyzed paint could roughly duplicate the modern Alivio
type finish.

[1] or pink, whatever.


Well, I don't think "pink" is the correct color for a "man's bike".

I think I will try what Frank suggested, a two part clear coat, as
they now make all kind of magic paints and I know a couple of people
who paint boats professionally that I can ask for suggestions.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #15  
Old July 31st 17, 03:44 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,952
Default Preserving polished aluminum

On 7/30/2017 10:30 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 12:17:55 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 13:14:42 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

I remember when the pre-Rodale _Bicycling!_ magazine had an article by
Fred DeLong on how to anodize bike parts at home. IIRC, he used a 12V
car battery as a power source. Not that I ever did it.


"Anodizing Aluminum Bicycle Components"
http://www.nonlintec.com/anodizing/
There are some additional interesting links near the bottom of the
page. Mo
http://www.bryanpryor.com/anodizing/
http://astro.neutral.org/anodise.shtml

"Tutorial: Polishing Bicycle Parts"
http://theradavist.com/2009/10/tutorial-polishing-bicycle-parts/


Not to be snooty but I've been polishing things for a lot of years
now, with the proper equipment :-)


Those were the days a person could frequently learn something from a
bike magazine. Now it's mostly which bike you MUST buy this month, or
which shorts make your legs look sexiest.


Hmmm... I should read some of that. After a triple bypass operation,
where the surgeons borrowed a vein from my leg, I could use some
advice on sexy leg fashions and camouflage. Riding with one leg in
shorts, and the other in full length pants, doesn't seem to attract
the ladies.


In some societies scars were a compliment to male beauty.


Drivel: The same thing happened with Home Power Magazine:
https://www.homepower.com
Originally (1987), it was full of do-it-thyself articles. However, as
grid tied solar became more popular, it's now mostly product reviews,
code compliance, and politics. I still subscribe, but I sometimes
wonder why I bother. The price of success is pollution.


A friend recently recommended "Popular Mechanics" magazine. A
publication that once printed articles about building your own 60 HP
Ford powered midget racer and how to build an arc welder out of an
aircraft alternator, and now publishes articles entitled "does it hurt
to pee on your lawn".

But I do believe that the "modern" (would one say?) type of articles
reflect the interests of the readers. How many people would leave the
comfort of the air conditioned Television Room and the 60 inch TV to
actually get their hands dirty building a midget racer.... or an arc
welder? (Or even know what an arc welder is?)

But the thought comes to mind, are Modern Americans actually intent on
discovering whether one should "pee on the lawn", or not? Sufficiently
so that a national magazine would publish an article concerning what
dirty little boys used to do, with no lessons whatsoever?


One 30-something man that I know is remarkably unschooled in technical
or mechanical things. He recently started reading Popular Mechanics.

I must say, it seems to work for him. IMO, the magazine is better than
it was about ten years ago. It seems to have lost some of its macho
attitude, and seems to have added a bit more on how to do things. It's
inspired him to do a few fabrication projects that turned out pretty well.

He seems to like the articles where they disassemble some mechanical
item (like maybe a pressure washer) and explain what's inside. And the
final pages now feature something a dad can make with his kid, which is
a good thing. They've added some stuff that appeals to "foodie" tastes,
as well.

It seems to be a case of meeting the customer where he is, then leading
him on to better things. It's not like the old days, but I think it's
now better than it used to be.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #16  
Old July 31st 17, 03:54 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,922
Default Preserving polished aluminum

On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 09:22:18 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 16:00:18 +0700, John B.
wrote:

Does anyone have any suggestions on how, or with what, to coat highly
polished aluminum to, at least, reduce the corrosion to a reasonable
level? Say a once a year polish?


If you spray or dip on a relatively soft coating, further polishing
will remove the coating. One of the locals demonstrated the principle
by polishing his fairly new clear coated vehicle with "light" abrasive
wax, which successfully made the paint look great, until the coating
flaked off. It now looks like a terminal case of automotive leprosy.

You didn't mention if you were planning to do this at home, or send
the parts out to a plating shop. If you want to do it thyself, try
Alodine 1200, Iridite, or various mutations:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromate_conversion_coating
All our aluminum marine radio parts and panels were dip treated with
1200, whether painted or exposed. Same with some painted aircraft
parts:


I learned about polishing way back when and all you need is a
"polishing head" and a number of buffing wheels. I generally use a
flap wheel to get rid of the dings and dents and then go through three
grades of compound.

http://www.skygeek.com/henkel-alodine-1201-gallon.html
http://www.skygeek.com/henkel-alodine-1001-gallon.html
You might want to start with a patch kit:
http://www.skygeek.com/henkel-592726-brush-alodine-120-kit.html
Depending on concentration, it will produce a gold to brown color.
Also available in clear, yellow and green.

Alodine vs Anodize:
https://www.finishing.com/448/95.shtml



The alodine I have used to coat aircraft parts gave a yellowish tint
to the finished part. I guess it was designed as a preservative, not a
beautifier :-)

Oddly, I've never tried Alodyne 1200 on a polished surface. Therefore,
I don't know which concoction to recommend for polished parts. I
think you can get a better answer by asking on:
https://www.finishing.com

You might look into nickel plating on aluminum. It sounds expensive,
but would look really cool:
http://techmetals.com/aluminumelectroless-nickel%E2%80%A2%E2%80%A2%E2%80%A2-a-choice-finish/
https://www.finishing.com/80/41.shtml

A thin coating of some kind of clear coat paint should work, at least
until it wears off. Since it's rather messy trying to clean up such a
worn coating, I suspect a hard auto wax might be a better choice.

A friend asked me how to protect his shiney new aluminum automobile
wheels. It turned out that the wheels are clear coated with some kind
of

In the astronomical circles, there are silicon monoxide (SiO)
protected aluminum coated mirrors:
https://www.edmundoptics.com/resources/application-notes/optics/metallic-mirror-coatings/
I know absolutely nothing about such protected coatings. You're on
your own here.

Also, check on what aircraft owners use on their shiney aluminum
aircraft:
https://www.brightworkpolish.com
I would guess(tm) that it's some form of wax or polymer sealer, but
I'm too lazy to check. Airstream trailers also have a shiny aluminum
polish:
http://vintageairstream.com/polishing/
See the comments on aluminum metalurgy and "maintaining the shine".

Better cycling through chemistry.


The preservative coatings sound like what I want. I tried wax but it
seems to come off fairly quickly from crank arms, I assume because
your shoes hit them occasionally and perhaps the special coatings
would work better.... although one probably doesn't run their
airstream trailer up against people's shoes too often :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #17  
Old July 31st 17, 06:46 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
James[_8_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,609
Default Preserving polished aluminum

On 31/07/17 12:54, John B. wrote:


The alodine I have used to coat aircraft parts gave a yellowish tint
to the finished part. I guess it was designed as a preservative, not a
beautifier :-)



Both form a barrier to further corrosion, but alodine is a conductive
coating where as anodized is insulative. Also alodine is easy to
scratch, where as anodized finish is harder.

Alodine is available in different colours, IIRC.

--
JS
  #18  
Old July 31st 17, 07:24 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,922
Default Preserving polished aluminum

On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 18:32:36 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 17:52:34 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

A KNOCKOUT
https://media.defense.gov/2007/Oct/2...-1234S-008.JPG


At about the end of the internal combustion "fighter" era I was
stationed at a base that was training foreign air force, that we had
given F-51's to, how to fly them. We also had a squadron of T-33'sw
and there was much discussion about which was the better. The jets
were much faster so one of the F-51 pilots challenged the T-33 guys
for a test. Engine start to 10,000 ft. and rather surprisingly, to the
T-33 guys, won the bet.


I'll raise you 3 more engines:
https://www.eaa.org/~/media/images/news/2015-briefing/2015-04-docrollout2-960px.jpg
http://www.warbirdsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/Screen-Shot-2016-05-11-at-9.02.33-PM.jpg
http://www.warbirdsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/Docs-Rollout-06.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU0f4VUDGR0


No turrets :-)

"Doc" also flew at Oshkosh this week:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgdEI3-GaAg
(Mostly at beginning and again at end of video).


If the tail number is authentic 44-6972 was in the 9th Bomb Group, at
Tinian Island in 1945 and damaged by another aircraft that crashed on
takeoff.

--
Cheers,

John B.

  #19  
Old July 31st 17, 07:35 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
avagadro7@gmail.com
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,951
Default Preserving polished aluminum

Watch Victory at Sea's collection of bombers landing on England ?

Forgive if I repeat, I forget

Uncle Charlie was repairing a Jeep clutch under a tarp on the desert as artillery close by fired at Rommel.

Officer walked m asked if he was Charlie Beaudry.

C said yes the officer asked if C wanted to learn how to fly a plane.

C asked

'Where does this happen' ?

Officer said, 'in England'

C, 'I'll get my clothes'

O, ' we'll get you new in England. Get in the jeep n on the plane.

I gave Colling $400 for a ride on their bomber... n this is what I experienced.

A shortage of pilots.

C survived as the Ford dealer in Tucson.

Collings' Mustang is as shiny as AL can be.

You can ask.

  #20  
Old July 31st 17, 07:49 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,922
Default Preserving polished aluminum

On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 22:44:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 7/30/2017 10:30 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 12:17:55 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 13:14:42 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

I remember when the pre-Rodale _Bicycling!_ magazine had an article by
Fred DeLong on how to anodize bike parts at home. IIRC, he used a 12V
car battery as a power source. Not that I ever did it.

"Anodizing Aluminum Bicycle Components"
http://www.nonlintec.com/anodizing/
There are some additional interesting links near the bottom of the
page. Mo
http://www.bryanpryor.com/anodizing/
http://astro.neutral.org/anodise.shtml

"Tutorial: Polishing Bicycle Parts"
http://theradavist.com/2009/10/tutorial-polishing-bicycle-parts/


Not to be snooty but I've been polishing things for a lot of years
now, with the proper equipment :-)


Those were the days a person could frequently learn something from a
bike magazine. Now it's mostly which bike you MUST buy this month, or
which shorts make your legs look sexiest.

Hmmm... I should read some of that. After a triple bypass operation,
where the surgeons borrowed a vein from my leg, I could use some
advice on sexy leg fashions and camouflage. Riding with one leg in
shorts, and the other in full length pants, doesn't seem to attract
the ladies.


In some societies scars were a compliment to male beauty.


Drivel: The same thing happened with Home Power Magazine:
https://www.homepower.com
Originally (1987), it was full of do-it-thyself articles. However, as
grid tied solar became more popular, it's now mostly product reviews,
code compliance, and politics. I still subscribe, but I sometimes
wonder why I bother. The price of success is pollution.


A friend recently recommended "Popular Mechanics" magazine. A
publication that once printed articles about building your own 60 HP
Ford powered midget racer and how to build an arc welder out of an
aircraft alternator, and now publishes articles entitled "does it hurt
to pee on your lawn".

But I do believe that the "modern" (would one say?) type of articles
reflect the interests of the readers. How many people would leave the
comfort of the air conditioned Television Room and the 60 inch TV to
actually get their hands dirty building a midget racer.... or an arc
welder? (Or even know what an arc welder is?)

But the thought comes to mind, are Modern Americans actually intent on
discovering whether one should "pee on the lawn", or not? Sufficiently
so that a national magazine would publish an article concerning what
dirty little boys used to do, with no lessons whatsoever?


One 30-something man that I know is remarkably unschooled in technical
or mechanical things. He recently started reading Popular Mechanics.

I must say, it seems to work for him. IMO, the magazine is better than
it was about ten years ago. It seems to have lost some of its macho
attitude, and seems to have added a bit more on how to do things. It's
inspired him to do a few fabrication projects that turned out pretty well.


I can't comment on the magazine as the last previous issue that I had
read was perhaps 15, or more, years ago. As my memory was of a
magazine perhaps 1/2 inch thick with all kinds of detailed how to
build, articles and the issue I read told me how to nail triangular
molding at the edge of a ceiling (something I'd know since I was a
kid) I gave up in disgust. The "pee on the lawn"issue I read after a
friend recommended it the other day and I've now book marked the site
for occasionally reading.


He seems to like the articles where they disassemble some mechanical
item (like maybe a pressure washer) and explain what's inside. And the
final pages now feature something a dad can make with his kid, which is
a good thing. They've added some stuff that appeals to "foodie" tastes,
as well.


One of the problems is that I've been working around mechanical
devices since I was about 12 years old and while a pressure washer
might be a mystery to some I can pretty well guess what must be inside
the thing by seeing what it does.

Probably the first pressure washer I ever saw was at an oil field in
Irian Jaya. It had a 6 cylinder 100 HP Caterpillar engine driving it
and it would strip electrical wires off an engine, strip paint off the
cab, break truck windshields and severely damage a human if you hit
him with the spray. After about the first two weeks of trying to use
it they abandoned it.

I suppose the next pressure washer I saw was 30 or so years later, in
Home Pro, a tiny little thing you could pick up with one hand :-)


It seems to be a case of meeting the customer where he is, then leading
him on to better things. It's not like the old days, but I think it's
now better than it used to be.

--
Cheers,

John B.

 




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