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Octalink ES25 replacement?



 
 
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  #21  
Old August 12th 17, 03:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 4,150
Default Octalink ES25 replacement?

On 2017-08-12 06:54, Tosspot wrote:
On 11/08/17 22:04, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-11 12:39, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/11/2017 1:00 PM, Joerg wrote:
The BB on my MTB makes a ticking sound when warmed up, sounds
similar to a hot car engine after it is turned off. It has also
develoved an ever so slight play, just a few mils. It is an
Shimano ES25 Octalink.

How long do you guys let that go before replacing?

Can anyone recommend a better quality BB for this that lasts
longer than 5k miles and doesn't cost an arm and a leg?


Ensure the arms are not loose on the spindle first.


They are on tight. The play is also a bit sideways. If I keep riding
will it just become gradually worse or can it fail catastrophically
in the middle of nowhere?

On my last Shimano 600 BB I rode until it had about 0.1" play in the
largest chain ring and shifting trim became iffy (old friction
shifter bike). But that was an ajustable BB where I could milk out a
second life by mounting the cranks 180 degrees rotated.

What I don't like on these newfangled BBs is the left side plastic
cup. For the road bike I got a UN-55, only aluminum on the left but
at least not plastic.


The UN-55 is the Canine Wobblers of BBs imho. Cottered, Octalink,
Outboard, have all failed me over the years, but never a UN-55.



I researched a bit on durability and also came up with the UN-55 which I
have now installed in my 1982 road bike. However, the UN-55 is square
taper and my MTB has Deore M522 cranks which are Octalink.


... Ok,
they do eventually wear out with year long commuting, but I reckon on
10-15k miles. That said, the last was on the 10K side of things. Bit
disappointed tbh, but the Shimano outboard ones I used to change
annually and I had stability issues with the Octalink. That said, I
still do have one Octalink, and it seems ok and 3k miles, but them's is
dry miles...


My rides are mostly also dry but lots of dust, rock hits into the
cranks, pedals and my feet, plus the occasional creek crossing and rainy
ride.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Ads
  #22  
Old August 12th 17, 03:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,150
Default Octalink ES25 replacement?

On 2017-08-12 07:03, wrote:
On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 11:56:37 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-11 11:48,
wrote:
On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 11:00:27 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
The BB on my MTB makes a ticking sound when warmed up, sounds
similar to a hot car engine after it is turned off. It has also
develoved an ever so slight play, just a few mils. It is an
Shimano ES25 Octalink.

How long do you guys let that go before replacing?

Can anyone recommend a better quality BB for this that lasts
longer than 5k miles and doesn't cost an arm and a leg?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimano-BB-5....c100506.m3226



Cost three times what the ES25 does and I've never had one fail.


$40 is perfectly ok. Unfortunately their available spindle lengths
do not fit the ES25. ES300 has very close to the same spindle
lengths, I just don't know whether they are any better than ES25.


I believe that the widest available in the ES-25 is 121. The 5500 is
available in a 118 and it's my guess that it would fit right on.


I might be able to live with a 3mm chain line offset (have to check the
M591 front derailer though) but the other issue is that they supposedly
only fit older Shimano crank sets because of the 9mm splines:

https://www.excelsports.com/main.asp...or=1&minor= 6

The cranks have to go on super-snug because I am a low cadence masher
and often ride with a substantial load on the bike.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #23  
Old August 12th 17, 04:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tosspot[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,056
Default Octalink ES25 replacement?

On 12/08/17 16:14, Joerg wrote:

snip

I might be able to live with a 3mm chain line offset (have to check the
M591 front derailer though) but the other issue is that they supposedly
only fit older Shimano crank sets because of the 9mm splines:

https://www.excelsports.com/main.asp...or=1&minor= 6

The cranks have to go on super-snug because I am a low cadence masher
and often ride with a substantial load on the bike.


I would be very wary of 3mm. It may work with a dérailleur setup but on
my hub gears it needs to be the right side of 2mm or aggro ensues.

  #24  
Old August 12th 17, 07:50 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,150
Default Octalink ES25 replacement?

On 2017-08-12 08:21, Tosspot wrote:
On 12/08/17 16:14, Joerg wrote:

snip

I might be able to live with a 3mm chain line offset (have to check the
M591 front derailer though) but the other issue is that they supposedly
only fit older Shimano crank sets because of the 9mm splines:

https://www.excelsports.com/main.asp...or=1&minor= 6


The cranks have to go on super-snug because I am a low cadence masher
and often ride with a substantial load on the bike.


I would be very wary of 3mm. It may work with a dérailleur setup but on
my hub gears it needs to be the right side of 2mm or aggro ensues.


Yes, I'd also prefer an exact match. Those 10-speed deals are really
fickle but the more serious MTBs in 2014 weren't available with the good
old 7-speed anymore.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #25  
Old August 12th 17, 08:10 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
cyclintom@gmail.com
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,652
Default Octalink ES25 replacement?

On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 7:14:21 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-12 07:03, wrote:
On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 11:56:37 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-11 11:48,
wrote:
On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 11:00:27 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
The BB on my MTB makes a ticking sound when warmed up, sounds
similar to a hot car engine after it is turned off. It has also
develoved an ever so slight play, just a few mils. It is an
Shimano ES25 Octalink.

How long do you guys let that go before replacing?

Can anyone recommend a better quality BB for this that lasts
longer than 5k miles and doesn't cost an arm and a leg?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimano-BB-5....c100506.m3226



Cost three times what the ES25 does and I've never had one fail.


$40 is perfectly ok. Unfortunately their available spindle lengths
do not fit the ES25. ES300 has very close to the same spindle
lengths, I just don't know whether they are any better than ES25.


I believe that the widest available in the ES-25 is 121. The 5500 is
available in a 118 and it's my guess that it would fit right on.


I might be able to live with a 3mm chain line offset (have to check the
M591 front derailer though) but the other issue is that they supposedly
only fit older Shimano crank sets because of the 9mm splines:

https://www.excelsports.com/main.asp...or=1&minor= 6

The cranks have to go on super-snug because I am a low cadence masher
and often ride with a substantial load on the bike.


Since this is a road bike BB it's likely that half of the difference is on the left side.
  #26  
Old August 12th 17, 08:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
cyclintom@gmail.com
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,652
Default Octalink ES25 replacement?

On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 11:50:32 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-12 08:21, Tosspot wrote:
On 12/08/17 16:14, Joerg wrote:

snip

I might be able to live with a 3mm chain line offset (have to check the
M591 front derailer though) but the other issue is that they supposedly
only fit older Shimano crank sets because of the 9mm splines:

https://www.excelsports.com/main.asp...or=1&minor= 6


The cranks have to go on super-snug because I am a low cadence masher
and often ride with a substantial load on the bike.


I would be very wary of 3mm. It may work with a dérailleur setup but on
my hub gears it needs to be the right side of 2mm or aggro ensues.


Yes, I'd also prefer an exact match. Those 10-speed deals are really
fickle but the more serious MTBs in 2014 weren't available with the good
old 7-speed anymore.


To tell you the truth, if it were up to me I'd still be riding 8 speeds. Hell, you always shift twice on a 10 speed so it's really a waste of time to have it. But you can't get any new parts such as cassettes in good ratios so I'm stuck with 10 speeds. They did the same damn thing with me with 9 speed parts.
  #27  
Old August 12th 17, 08:28 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,150
Default Octalink ES25 replacement?

On 2017-08-12 12:14, wrote:
On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 11:50:32 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-12 08:21, Tosspot wrote:
On 12/08/17 16:14, Joerg wrote:

snip

I might be able to live with a 3mm chain line offset (have to
check the M591 front derailer though) but the other issue is
that they supposedly only fit older Shimano crank sets because
of the 9mm splines:

https://www.excelsports.com/main.asp...or=1&minor= 6




The cranks have to go on super-snug because I am a low cadence masher
and often ride with a substantial load on the bike.

I would be very wary of 3mm. It may work with a dérailleur setup
but on my hub gears it needs to be the right side of 2mm or aggro
ensues.


Yes, I'd also prefer an exact match. Those 10-speed deals are
really fickle but the more serious MTBs in 2014 weren't available
with the good old 7-speed anymore.


To tell you the truth, if it were up to me I'd still be riding 8
speeds. Hell, you always shift twice on a 10 speed so it's really a
waste of time to have it. But you can't get any new parts such as
cassettes in good ratios so I'm stuck with 10 speeds. They did the
same damn thing with me with 9 speed parts.


Same here. I'd like to ratchet the MTB back from 10-speed to 7-speed or
8-speed. However, the largest cog you can get in a reasonably priced
7-speed or 8-speed cassette is 32T. On a 29" bike an older guy like me
needs 36T, especially when schlepping a load along.

I converted the road bike from 6-speed to 7-speed and there a 32T is ok.
Well, for now. I don't want a 10-speed road bike cassette.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #28  
Old August 13th 17, 08:51 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,922
Default Octalink ES25 replacement?

On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 12:14:31 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 11:50:32 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-12 08:21, Tosspot wrote:
On 12/08/17 16:14, Joerg wrote:

snip

I might be able to live with a 3mm chain line offset (have to check the
M591 front derailer though) but the other issue is that they supposedly
only fit older Shimano crank sets because of the 9mm splines:

https://www.excelsports.com/main.asp...or=1&minor= 6


The cranks have to go on super-snug because I am a low cadence masher
and often ride with a substantial load on the bike.

I would be very wary of 3mm. It may work with a drailleur setup but on
my hub gears it needs to be the right side of 2mm or aggro ensues.


Yes, I'd also prefer an exact match. Those 10-speed deals are really
fickle but the more serious MTBs in 2014 weren't available with the good
old 7-speed anymore.


To tell you the truth, if it were up to me I'd still be riding 8 speeds. Hell, you always shift twice on a 10 speed so it's really a waste of time to have it. But you can't get any new parts such as cassettes in good ratios so I'm stuck with 10 speeds. They did the same damn thing with me with 9 speed parts.


In Bangkok, which is very flat, I still ride with down tube shifters
:-) and don't miss not having indexed shifters at all. Today I took a
new route - about 55 Km out and back and other then two bridges over
canals I shifted 3 times. And one of those was because it was hot and
I was getting tired :-)

I can still get 9 speed stuff here, in fact you can still buy 7 speed
stuff although it is the low end Shimano models. I see a lot of new
low end bikes with 7 speed derailers and often twist grip shifters.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #29  
Old August 13th 17, 09:07 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,922
Default Octalink ES25 replacement?

On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 07:03:54 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-11 19:59, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:59:50 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-11 16:52, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 11:00:32 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

The BB on my MTB makes a ticking sound when warmed up, sounds similar to
a hot car engine after it is turned off. It has also develoved an ever
so slight play, just a few mils. It is an Shimano ES25 Octalink.

How long do you guys let that go before replacing?

Can anyone recommend a better quality BB for this that lasts longer than
5k miles and doesn't cost an arm and a leg?

I see Octalink bottom brackets for sale for four British pounds :-)
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/c...t/rp-prod34653
About $5.00.


I saw that as well. It's a clearance item in an odd diameter. $6.99 when
clicking the link in the US. I guess in new-speak that's called "target
group pricing" or something similar :-)


I believe in the grocery store marketing it is called a "loss Leader".



I meant different prices for different regions or people. One big player
recently got into trouble for that which netted them a not-so-honorary
mention in the Wall Street Journal.


Why ever not different prices for different people. My bike shop
certainly does it. If you come in they will charge you one price. If I
come in they charge me 15% less. My guess is that it is not uncommon.

In fact, if we go to an open market, where bargaining is the norm, my
wife will always be quoted a cheaper price then I would. (foreigners
are all rich!)



Then there is dynamic pricing where if you click too often on an item
its price suddenly ratchets up. I immediately head to a competitor if
any store does that to me.



Although I also notice that Amazon wants 20-odd dollars for one and
e-bay has them for about $18.00


Yep. No problem to just buy one but considering the paltry service life
I would like to know whether there is something better than ES25 at
reasonable cost. Meaning not necessarily a $200+ Phil Woods BB.

Well, Chain Reaction has the ES25 BB for sterling 3.99 and the ES51
for 23.49 so you can change five ES25 BB's for the price of one ES51
:-)


I don't care if it's $10, $20 or $30. As long as it fits and I don't
have to change those things like underwear.


I also see an ES300 for $16.68 and there are also Shimano Dura-Ace
Octalink BB's and although I don't know whether they fit, Dura-Ace is
usually considered as very high quality.


It may be time to write to Shimano, hoping they'll answer. To me this
flurry of model numbers is confusing and not all are 100% compatible.
The cranks have to fit and the chain line should remain roughly the same.


Take it to a good bike shop :-) I have a shop in Bangkok and another
in Phuket where they seem to know what they're doing.... as long as I
know enough to ask the right questions, that is.


I was hoping that someone had the same issue with paltry ES25 lifetime
and could tell me "Here, buy that one, lasts a lot longer" (and where it
fits well).

[...]


I wonder how popular the Octalink pedals were? I can't remember ever
seeing one on the road, or maybe I didn't look :-) Perhaps they
weren't that common that people talk about them.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #30  
Old August 13th 17, 03:13 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
David Scheidt
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Posts: 1,158
Default Octalink ES25 replacement?

John B. wrote:

:I can still get 9 speed stuff here, in fact you can still buy 7 speed
:stuff although it is the low end Shimano models. I see a lot of new
:low end bikes with 7 speed derailers and often twist grip shifters.


Seven speed stuff is still available to OEMS (I don't know how much is
available to someone like AMuzi) because it's cheap. Freewheels, not
freehubs, and super low-end everything. All the tooling is paid for
years ago, and they crank it out for the $100 bike market. Its going
to be around for a while, because it's about as complicated as can be
made to work on bikes put together by nimwits. (A cow-orker bought
one from somewhere that had the fork on backwards.)

--
sig 50
 




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