#21
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Goodbye
snip
But it struck me as I was enduring the pain of that massage that participation in the newsgroups gets more painful by the year, but no longer holds any particular benefit for me. Technical discussions break down into pointless bluster as often as not (ala "jim beam") and discussions about social issues have long since ceased to hold any promise of civil discourse. And it only gets more and more shrill as time goes by. snip As a long time reader (and a very infrequent contributor) I'm also finding that participating in this newsgroup is becoming less and less enjoyable. I don't mind an occasional, spirited political or technical discussion. But the venom that some people pour into their posts is totally uncalled for. What is sad is that the wit and humor has slowly drained out of this news group as the temperature of the political debate has risen. I used to count on rec.bicycles.misc to provide me with a few good chuckles every day. Now those funny posts are few and far between. I know that we live in a f---ed up world and it is hard to shut the problems of the world out. And I certainly don't advocate that anyone ignore the problems our world is facing. But, come on people; RBM is a bicycle discussion group. Bicycling is supposed to be fun! RBM is supposed to be centered around the joy and fun of riding bicycles. Mark, all the best to you. We are going to miss you here. Hopefully you and I can get together sometime and go for a bike ride. A bet it would be fun. -- Paul D Oosterhout I work for SAIC (but I don't speak for SAIC) |
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#22
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Goodbye
Mark Hickey wrote:
So, it's with absolute joy and anticipation that I bid you all a fond farewell. Take care, Mark. Hell, we all know that usenet is dead anyway, and we are just sifting through the ashes. Between the "forums" diverting a lot of more specialized discussions and energy, and "angry young men" determined to turn any topic into their particular soapbox, the signal/noise level is not looking good. Hey, at least that's one less conservative..... No, I didn't mean that. Some of my best friends are conservatives. Not many, but some. -- David L. Johnson Arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig... You soon find out the pig likes it! |
#23
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Goodbye
Bill Sornson wrote:
I hope you'll reconsider at some point. I don't agree with your politics, but I think you've been a voice of reason on matters of bicycle technology, which this list is purportedly about. The reign of the yippy dogs seems once step closer with your departure. I second that. I hope Mark will reconsider because SHUTTING OUT OPPOSING VOICES is an obvious tactic of a certain political movement nowadays, and by his bowing out it's playing right into their pocket-picking hands. I would suggest that it is a tactic of _many_ political movements nowadays, but I don't want this, too, to become a political rant. There comes a time, though, when there is no point in trying to remain involved. Many newsgroups have long since died completely because of this. I used to find significant religious discussions on my particular religious-stripe group (soc.religion.quaker), I used to find significant advise and problems on sci.math.symbolic, and helpful advice on the comp.os.linux groups. Now, none of these are worth the trouble, even with bozofilters. Others are just dead. Hell, these rec.bicycles.* groups are probably the best left aside from moderated groups, and even those are losing ground quickly. -- David L. Johnson Arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig... You soon find out the pig likes it! |
#24
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Goodbye
John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:33:12 -0700, Mark Hickey wrote: JT's pernicious accusations are just the latest in a long series, but they're the ones that opened my eyes to the reality that this is no longer any fun, and there are many better ways I can spend my time. I have a very full life, a wonderful family (including four new granddaughters). I can ride my bike more. You're a coward. All you have to do is not talk about politics and I wont bring up your more disgusting political views. Or even killfile me. Actually you've been a coward and a bully (threatening to sue me for libel!). Well, you just made Mark's point. -- David L. Johnson Arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig... You soon find out the pig likes it! |
#25
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Goodbye
David L. Johnson wrote:
I would suggest that it is a tactic of _many_ political movements nowadays, but I don't want this, too, to become a political rant. I don't care to read anybody else's political views here, even if I agree with them. It is not easy, but I filter all those topics (and people who can't help replying) so that the post is deleted and I never see it again. These are bike newsgroups, not political pages. If it gets to where there are not many posts on topic, there are plenty of other good things to do with my time. I would not beg anyone to stay if they can't keep from getting into it with other posters. Delete the newgroups for a while. If you don't miss them, you made a wise choice. |
#26
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Goodbye
In rec.bicycles.misc David L. Johnson wrote:
Hell, we all know that usenet is dead anyway, and we are just sifting through the ashes. Between the "forums" diverting a lot of more specialized discussions and energy, and "angry young men" determined to turn any topic into their particular soapbox, the signal/noise level is not looking good. Indeed. The Usenet is dying simply because it isn't moderated. I guess it worked better 10 to 15 years ago when the standard of Internet users was higher, but now most newsgroups are playgrounds of small number of anti-social idiots who successfully drive everybody else to moderated web forums and mailing lists. Antti |
#27
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Goodbye
Good bye Mark. Thanks for the many insightful postings over the years.
Phil H "Mark Hickey" wrote in message ... I had an epiphany. Last night, I was getting a painful deep massage to help with the effects of my bike accident in 2003. The nice young woman was leaning heavily toward me to better drive the point of her elbow into the very sore muscles of my neck. I thought "I'm paying her to hurt me this much - I don't really have to put up with the pain". Of course, I didn't stop her because I benefit from the process, however painful. Which brings me to the current state of the rec.bicycles newsgroups. I've been frequenting them for over 15 years, and (particularly in the early years) have learned much, and tried to share what I know through those years. But it struck me as I was enduring the pain of that massage that participation in the newsgroups gets more painful by the year, but no longer holds any particular benefit for me. Technical discussions break down into pointless bluster as often as not (ala "jim beam") and discussions about social issues have long since ceased to hold any promise of civil discourse. And it only gets more and more shrill as time goes by. Character assassination has become the chief tool for those who prefer to avoid facts that run contrary to their world view, and I've increasingly been the target of these attacks. It strikes me that most of the "high-content contributors" have also left these newsgroups over the years, and it's easy to see why. I suspect that the content to noise ratio is only going to get worse as time goes by. JT's pernicious accusations are just the latest in a long series, but they're the ones that opened my eyes to the reality that this is no longer any fun, and there are many better ways I can spend my time. I have a very full life, a wonderful family (including four new granddaughters). I can ride my bike more. So, it's with absolute joy and anticipation that I bid you all a fond farewell. I've got the same kind of feeling that you get when you're finishing up a tedious task before walking out the door on a long vacation. I'm psyched. For this, I can only thank JT for doing his part to bring this long, glorious waste of time to an end. Happy trails, Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $795 ti frame |
#28
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Goodbye
"Antti Salonen" wrote in message ... In rec.bicycles.misc David L. Johnson wrote: Hell, we all know that usenet is dead anyway, and we are just sifting through the ashes. Between the "forums" diverting a lot of more specialized discussions and energy, and "angry young men" determined to turn any topic into their particular soapbox, the signal/noise level is not looking good. Indeed. The Usenet is dying simply because it isn't moderated. I guess it worked better 10 to 15 years ago when the standard of Internet users was higher, but now most newsgroups are playgrounds of small number of anti-social idiots who successfully drive everybody else to moderated web forums and mailing lists. Antti Yep. From trolls to rampant spam, it's becoming the wasteland. Having said that, RBT is still better than most. Have you been to alt.mountain-bike? Talk about a soapbox for cooler-than-thou sophomorism. |
#29
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Goodbye
David L. Johnson wrote:
Bill Sornson wrote: I hope you'll reconsider at some point. I don't agree with your politics, but I think you've been a voice of reason on matters of bicycle technology, which this list is purportedly about. The reign of the yippy dogs seems once step closer with your departure. Please watch your attributions; I did not write the above. |
#30
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Goodbye
On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 18:40:28 -0400, "David L. Johnson"
wrote: John Forrest Tomlinson wrote: On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:33:12 -0700, Mark Hickey wrote: JT's pernicious accusations are just the latest in a long series, but they're the ones that opened my eyes to the reality that this is no longer any fun, and there are many better ways I can spend my time. I have a very full life, a wonderful family (including four new granddaughters). I can ride my bike more. You're a coward. All you have to do is not talk about politics and I wont bring up your more disgusting political views. Or even killfile me. Actually you've been a coward and a bully (threatening to sue me for libel!). Well, you just made Mark's point. It's not just Mark's point -- it's mine as well. I'm harsh.That pales in significance to promoting torture and supporting the current attacks on the rule of the law in the US. I can't have a "civil"discussion about these things. So if Mark can't deal, he shouldn't start. He shouldn't have started with me. -- JT **************************** Remove "remove" to reply Visit http://www.jt10000.com **************************** |
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