A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Techniques
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Racks is racks, right?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old September 17th 08, 03:50 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Mike Rocket J Squirrel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 366
Default Racks is racks, right?

(# 47 in our continuing series of dumb questions)

The lovely and talented Mrs Squirrel has requested that I buy for her one
of Nashbar's Toto Quick Release Front Basket
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?sku=15232 for her cruiser.

I reckon that while I'm ordering from them I might as well get a rear rack
for the low-gear cruiser I'm building up from my old Specialized Sirrus.
Nashbar lists eight or so aluminum rear bike racks from the likes of
Blackburn, Delta, Bor Yeuh, Sunlight, and Ascent.

Near as I can determine from my lifetime of LBS visits and online catalog
viewings is that these things are pretty about the same to the fellow
that's only going to strap on a small parcel of stuff gotten from the
farmer's market. IOW, hardly a life or death matter -- just toss a dart?

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel"

Ads
  #2  
Old September 17th 08, 04:13 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Clive George
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,394
Default Racks is racks, right?

"Mike Rocket J Squirrel" wrote in message
...
(# 47 in our continuing series of dumb questions)

The lovely and talented Mrs Squirrel has requested that I buy for her one
of Nashbar's Toto Quick Release Front Basket
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?sku=15232 for her cruiser.

I reckon that while I'm ordering from them I might as well get a rear rack
for the low-gear cruiser I'm building up from my old Specialized Sirrus.
Nashbar lists eight or so aluminum rear bike racks from the likes of
Blackburn, Delta, Bor Yeuh, Sunlight, and Ascent.

Near as I can determine from my lifetime of LBS visits and online catalog
viewings is that these things are pretty about the same to the fellow
that's only going to strap on a small parcel of stuff gotten from the
farmer's market. IOW, hardly a life or death matter -- just toss a dart?


There are some crap ones about, so you need to apply a little caution.

Our Bor Yeuh blackburn clones have been fine - decent cheap racks, but all
that says is that it's not a brand to run away from. Need to look at the
actual rack to see if it suits.

Things to consider:

Triangulation - blackburn got this one right. One of the sets of stays comes
in closer to the middle of the rack than the rest, making it a much more
rigid structure. Having the stays all in a line isn't as good - I think the
ascent basic rack may have that problem.

Pannier falling in wheel - putting a bend in the rearmost stay to help hold
floppy panniers from the back wheel can be very useful - eg as on the bor
yeuh urban rear rack or the ascent basic one.

Rear light mount - the plate with the 50 or 80mm holes gives an excellent
mount for a light. See eg the sunlight or the ascent.

(blimey, they're cheap - 10 quid for a rack is nothing).

If I were going posh for long touring, something steel would probably get
fitted. But for around-town hack work, the cheap ones will do. Pity can only
seem to get 2 out of the 3 things in the ones I can see there :-( I'd look
at the sunlight first, then probably just get the one I've got already.

cheers,
clive


  #3  
Old September 17th 08, 05:57 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default Racks is racks, right?

Mike Rocket J Squirrel wrote:
(# 47 in our continuing series of dumb questions)

The lovely and talented Mrs Squirrel has requested that I buy for her
one of Nashbar's Toto Quick Release Front Basket
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?sku=15232 for her cruiser.

I reckon that while I'm ordering from them I might as well get a rear
rack for the low-gear cruiser I'm building up from my old Specialized
Sirrus. Nashbar lists eight or so aluminum rear bike racks from the
likes of Blackburn, Delta, Bor Yeuh, Sunlight, and Ascent.

Near as I can determine from my lifetime of LBS visits and online
catalog viewings is that these things are pretty about the same to the
fellow that's only going to strap on a small parcel of stuff gotten from
the farmer's market. IOW, hardly a life or death matter -- just toss a
dart?


Wrong.

There are a bunch of considerations in rear racks that you don't realize
until you try to mount it and use it.

Fortunately, there's a great web page that examines these issues. Go
over to "http://www.bicycleluggageracks.com/". Wow that guy knows a lot
about racks!

The Bor Yueh that Nashbar currently offers doesn't have a light bracket
(the older model they offered does have one, see
"http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=&subcategory=&brand=5278&sku= 17030").
It also doesn't support brake bolt mounting, which doesn't matter if you
have braze-ons for a rack mount, and long enough brackets. I made
brackets to use a Bor Yueh on one bike, see
"http://nordicgroup.us/rearracks/rackimages/IMG_0271.JPG".

The Sunlight lacks the dog leg strut, though if you're not ever using
panniers then it's no problem.

The Ascent isn't adjustable height, though this may not be an issue to
you. It does have the dogleg strut.

The Blackburn lacks a dogleg strut and a reflector bracket.

Always get a rack that's triple strut.

Never buy one without a light/reflector bracket.

If you have disc brakes then you need to get a rack designed to work
with disc brakes.

If you have rear suspension then you need to get a rack designed to work
with rear suspension.

Ensure that it actually can be mounted on the bike in question. which
unfortunately isn't a given. I tried three racks I had in storage on my
wife's new bike and none would work. The Bor Yueh was too far forward
and the seat hit it when the suspension kicked in, no matter how low I
mounted it. An REI rack didn't have long enough brackets, though I could
have ordered some longer brackets from a third party and made it work.

There was some problem with a Delta rack, I think it was too high, and
the height wasn't adjustable. I'm waiting for a Nashbar order with the
Sunlite rack that may work with brake bolt mounting.

Hybrid bikes can be especially problematic because usually the brackets
supplied with the rack are too short. I end up fabricating a brake bolt
mounting bracket from aluminum to mount the rack level. There are photos
on that web site.

Here's an excerpt from "http://www.bicycleluggageracks.com/":

Rack Design Considerations

Materials
---------
As with bicycle frames, the best material for racks is
chromium-molybdenum steel tubing (aka "Cro-Mo"). Unfortunately, as with
bicycle frames, the trend is to use much less expensive aluminum. There
are still some high end racks made out of 4130 Cro-Mo, including ones
from Tubus and Robert Beckman, but you'll pay a high price for these
racks. For the ultimate in long term durability without paint damage, a
couple of manufacturers offer stainless steel racks. For heavily loaded
touring the Cro-Mo racks represent a worthwhile expenditure.

Mounting System to Seat Stays
-----------------------------
The better racks have a seat stay mounting system that doesn't require
bending of flat brackets to match the seat stays. The brackets should be
adjustable in width (to match different widths of seat stays) as well as
pivoting up and down (to match different heights of seat stays) and
rotating (to match different angles of seat stays).

Seat Stay Bracket Length
------------------------
The brackets that come with many (or most) racks are too short for a lot
of hybrid bicycles. See Extended Seat Stay Brackets for information on
how to solve this problem.

Platform Length
---------------
The longer the platform length, the further back panniers can be
positioned, increasing heel clearance. However some racks with 33 cm
platforms, such as the REI rack, are positioned further back from the
seat stays, so the shorter platform is sufficient.

Reflector/Light Bracket
-----------------------
Many racks have a mount for a reflector or tail light, though many lack
this feature. It can be quite a pain in the butt to add a
reflector/light bracket so if you need to be mounting a light to the
rack don't buy a rack without this feature.

Triangulation
-------------
Long struts on a rack increase the side-to-side sway when fully loaded.
On a rack with triangulation, one or more of the pairs of struts angle
inward. This makes the rack more stable in terms of side to side sway.
Struts that cross each other and are welded together also provide
triangulation of sorts to reduce sway.

Strut Design
------------
For use with panniers, the "dog leg" rear strut is essential as it
prevents the pannier from knocking into the rear wheel when the pannier
is mounted toward the rear of the rack. Also, avoid single strut racks.
Three struts are preferable for heavy loads (i.e. touring with
panniers), while two struts are sufficient for lighter loads.

Side Rail Design
----------------
The side rails should never be stacked where the support struts are
welded (or bolted) to the top platform. Double rails make it difficult
or impossible to mount certain types of panniers. It's especially
important that there be no double rails near the rear of the rack.

Capacity
--------
The amount of weight that the rack is designed to carry. A fully loaded
tourist could easily be carrying 50 pounds (22kg) of gear. Some of these
racks can carry considerably more than this.

Weight
------
The sturdier racks have extra struts which can increase the weight by a
couple of hundred grams. The racks that use Cro-Mo are lighter because
they are able to use smaller diameter tubing which more than makes up
for the difference between the weight of steel and aluminum.


Hope this helps,


Steve
"http://www.bicycleluggageracks.com/"
  #4  
Old September 17th 08, 06:11 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Clive George
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,394
Default Racks is racks, right?

"SMS" wrote in message
...

Couple of issues with your web page - mostly sane, but:

As with bicycle frames, the best material for racks is chromium-molybdenum
steel tubing (aka "Cro-Mo").


cough Ping jim beam.

Al racks are fine. The nice steel ones are sturdy and repairable, but you
pay for that. Cheap Al racks can last an awfully long time...

Many racks have a mount for a reflector or tail light, though many lack
this feature. It can be quite a pain in the butt to add a reflector/light
bracket so if you need to be mounting a light to the rack don't buy a rack
without this feature.


Not necessarily as important as that - lights can be mounted, though the
proper one is rather nicer than a bodge.

For use with panniers, the "dog leg" rear strut is essential as it
prevents the pannier from knocking into the rear wheel when the pannier is
mounted toward the rear of the rack.


Again, not necessarily essential. Pannier design is relevant here - some can
flop, others won't.

The sturdier racks have extra struts which can increase the weight by a
couple of hundred grams. The racks that use Cro-Mo are lighter because
they are able to use smaller diameter tubing which more than makes up for
the difference between the weight of steel and aluminum.


Posh steel racks typically use larger diameter tubing than eg blackburn
racks. Cheap steel racks don't, but they're nasty anyway.



  #5  
Old September 17th 08, 06:16 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,422
Default Racks is racks, right?

On Sep 17, 3:50*pm, Mike Rocket J Squirrel
wrote:
(# 47 in our continuing series of dumb questions)

The lovely and talented Mrs Squirrel has requested that I buy for her one
of Nashbar's Toto Quick Release Front Baskethttp://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?sku=15232for her cruiser.

I reckon that while I'm ordering from them I might as well get a rear rack
for the low-gear cruiser I'm building up from my old Specialized Sirrus.
Nashbar lists eight or so aluminum rear bike racks from the likes of
Blackburn, Delta, Bor Yeuh, Sunlight, and Ascent.

Near as I can determine from my lifetime of LBS visits and online catalog
viewings is that these things are pretty about the same to the fellow
that's only going to strap on a small parcel of stuff gotten from the
farmer's market. *IOW, hardly a life or death matter -- just toss a dart?

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel"


For just pottering around with a rack pack and maybe some groceries, a
light alloy rack will do just fine; I got high-quality ones as
original equipment with both my current bikes and neither shows any
wear after c3kKm. Just inspect the structure (triangulation is good!)
and the fixings of the cheaper ones as best you can in the
photographs. For heavier duty, like touring, get a steel rack or an
alloy rack from a recognized maker like Blackburn; Blackburn appears
to be the second choice for the Thorn touring bikes (after their own
more expensive rack) and I'm always impressed with the good sense of
Andy Blance's component selections. I had a Blackburn rack, particular
model lost in the mists of time (or never noted -- I just took what
the LBS insisted on "because if I let you take something cheaper,
you'll bitch about it forever"), for more than a decade; fit and and
forget for the rest of the bike's life or your life, probably. It took
a lot of abuse, like having a six-foot bookcase lashed to it. For
serious touring, buy a big, heavy Tubus rack; for show down at the
latte shoppe buy a stainless steel flyweight Tubus Luna; I bought a
Luna (a stainless Fly) for my experiments with the geribike and was
pleasantly surprised at how capable something so light and lacey was
but I like the "proper" alloy racks on my other bikes (from the design
probably made by Tortec for the bike manufacturers) so much better
that I've already given the Fly to a young lady for her bike. Problem
with Tubus is that it is expensive; I don't have wide enough
experience of the other brands to judge whether the extra expense is
justified. (Carriage is so expensive here that sometimes I buy stuff
much more expensive than I need because I'm already ordering something
essential from the vendor, and then the carriage hit already
necessitated makes extravagances like the Luna cheap enough not to
look quite so stupid, even when it proves nice but not a keeper.)

A note on the use of a rack: I, and almost everyone I see on the road
with a rack, use a rack pack either permanently or semi-permanently
attached to the rack. Thus the "lacey" Tubus Fly/Luna are perfectly
good enough because the rackback provides a base.

If you think about the above par, I am really surprised that no one
offers a hard rackbox with a couple of legs attached at each side for
fixing to the eyelets and keeping panniers off the wheels. The whole
assembly could easily be lighter than a separate rack and a soft bag
(those racktop bags are *heavy* even when empty), and the hard sides
of the racktop case would stiffen it enough to make the pannier sides/
support struts much lighter and/or fewer.

Nor is there any reason the rear mudguard (fender) needs separate
struts to the rack.

The modern bicycle is in an awful, ununified mess. It isn't so much
built of discrete components as thrown together by a rack of parts
that fell over.

Andre Jute
Open-eyed wonder
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/B...20CYCLING.html
  #6  
Old September 17th 08, 07:07 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Dan O
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,098
Default Racks is racks, right?

On Sep 17, 7:50 am, Mike Rocket J Squirrel
wrote:
(# 47 in our continuing series of dumb questions)



I reckon that while I'm ordering from them I might as well get a rear rack
for the low-gear cruiser I'm building up from my old Specialized Sirrus.
Nashbar lists eight or so aluminum rear bike racks from the likes of
Blackburn, Delta, Bor Yeuh, Sunlight, and Ascent.

Near as I can determine from my lifetime of LBS visits and online catalog
viewings is that these things are pretty about the same to the fellow
that's only going to strap on a small parcel of stuff gotten from the
farmer's market. IOW, hardly a life or death matter -- just toss a dart?


My beer bike came with a cheap-o rack (one of those racks with the
integral spring-loaded clamp) from the previous owner. The first time
I swung my leg over the bike, the spring on that rack tore clear
through my pants and scratched my leg (that hurt!) Considering this,
it is at least remotely possible that the choice of rack could
conceivably be a matter of life or death (and this wasn't even a
crash).

Needless to say, I removed that rack straightaway (and all other
extraneous garbage).

I have an old (non-adjustable) Blackburn on my commuter (also came
with bike as above). The mechanic at LBS said it isn't the right one
for the bike (not level), but the mounts fit and it works okay with
the Nashbar Trunk Bag that I got this summer.


  #7  
Old September 17th 08, 08:17 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default Racks is racks, right?

Clive George wrote:
"SMS" wrote in message
...

Couple of issues with your web page - mostly sane, but:

As with bicycle frames, the best material for racks is chromium-molybdenum
steel tubing (aka "Cro-Mo").


cough Ping jim beam.


LOL. I'd have to un-filter him first, and that would affect my current
campaign to eliminate clueless people from my Usenet groups.

Al racks are fine. The nice steel ones are sturdy and repairable, but you
pay for that. Cheap Al racks can last an awfully long time...


Yeah, maybe I didn't make that clear. I fixed it.

Many racks have a mount for a reflector or tail light, though many lack
this feature. It can be quite a pain in the butt to add a reflector/light
bracket so if you need to be mounting a light to the rack don't buy a rack
without this feature.


Not necessarily as important as that - lights can be mounted, though the
proper one is rather nicer than a bodge.


I've made light brackets and they really are a kludge. It's usually not
just a simple L bracket. Since the bends are sharp, you can't use
aluminum flat bar. It end up being bolted on through the top plate, if
there is a top plate, or bend around the rear rail if there is no top
plate. Something so simple to include on a rack should be included. And
of course not many people want to make everything such a big project.

I did find a source for light brackets for racks with top plates, and a
source for racks without top plates and I added them to the web site.
Unfortunately the latter is not sold in the U.S..

For use with panniers, the "dog leg" rear strut is essential as it
prevents the pannier from knocking into the rear wheel when the pannier is
mounted toward the rear of the rack.


Again, not necessarily essential. Pannier design is relevant here - some can
flop, others won't.


Well even panniers with solid inserts can be a problem. The whole
pannier rotates into the back of the back wheel if the pannier is
mounted far back. That's the problem I have even with some allegedly
high end panniers. If I mount the pannier so it's centered over the
center strut then it's okay in terms of flopping, but my foot hits it.
If I adjust the top rail mounts, and move it back, then it flops into
the wheel. Fortunately, there are a lot more dogleg racks on the market
these days.
  #8  
Old September 17th 08, 08:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default Racks is racks, right?

Mike Rocket J Squirrel wrote:
(# 47 in our continuing series of dumb questions)

The lovely and talented Mrs Squirrel has requested that I buy for her
one of Nashbar's Toto Quick Release Front Basket
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?sku=15232 for her cruiser.

I reckon that while I'm ordering from them I might as well get a rear
rack for the low-gear cruiser I'm building up from my old Specialized
Sirrus. Nashbar lists eight or so aluminum rear bike racks from the
likes of Blackburn, Delta, Bor Yeuh, Sunlight, and Ascent.


Is this the old drop bar road bike Sirrus
("http://bicyclecoffeesystems.com/") or the newer flat-bar Sirrus which
is completely different?

I received the Nashbar Sunlite rack today, and I added the missing specs
to my web site. It looks pretty good for $17 (and it just went up to
$17, I paid $15 minus 15% discount so they were around $12.25 each). The
wholesale cost to the distributor was probably about $3 FOB. There's no
reason that racks should be costing $50 or more.

My spousal unit just demanded a QR basket as well, but she didn't like
the wicker, preferring a more modern style,
"http://www.amazon.com/Topeak-TB2001-Front-Bicycle-Basket/dp/B000FIAU3E".

I couldn't find it locally. There seems to be a huge bicycle basket
shortage to go with the bicycle shortage.

Steve
"http://www.bicycleluggageracks.com/"
  #9  
Old September 17th 08, 08:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
landotter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,336
Default Racks is racks, right?

On Sep 17, 10:50 pm, Mike Rocket J Squirrel
wrote:
(# 47 in our continuing series of dumb questions)

The lovely and talented Mrs Squirrel has requested that I buy for her one
of Nashbar's Toto Quick Release Front Baskethttp://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?sku=15232for her cruiser.

I reckon that while I'm ordering from them I might as well get a rear rack
for the low-gear cruiser I'm building up from my old Specialized Sirrus.
Nashbar lists eight or so aluminum rear bike racks from the likes of
Blackburn, Delta, Bor Yeuh, Sunlight, and Ascent.

Near as I can determine from my lifetime of LBS visits and online catalog
viewings is that these things are pretty about the same to the fellow
that's only going to strap on a small parcel of stuff gotten from the
farmer's market. IOW, hardly a life or death matter -- just toss a dart?


The Bor Yeuh rack is strong and rigid. I've had three of 'em. I've
hauled stuff on them way past their capacity, had a car clip one of
them, bent it back--and continued to abuse it, with no problems.
They're sorta the Alex rims of racks--no respect, but good stuff.

If I was going into the Hindu Kush--I'd get a cromo rack--but till
then, I'm a Bor Yeuh man, through and through. Especially for $18.
  #10  
Old September 17th 08, 09:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default Racks is racks, right?

landotter wrote:

If I was going into the Hindu Kush--I'd get a cromo rack--but till
then, I'm a Bor Yeuh man, through and through. Especially for $18.


I've had no problems with Bor Yueh, but Nashbar dropped the rack with a
light/reflector bracket
"http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=&subcategory=&brand=5278&sku= 17030"
and now only has one without the bracket.
"http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=&subcategory=&brand=60005278& sku=17025"

I think that I was a Bor Yueh man, but that I decided to switch rather
than fight.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Racks...Racks...Who needs a Rack??? [email protected] Racing 8 May 25th 06 07:23 PM
Car Racks Ed_Zep UK 2 April 25th 06 01:02 AM
Racks Sam Salt UK 17 January 24th 04 06:55 PM
Racks? gravelmuncher Australia 10 November 19th 03 04:40 AM
WTB: Front racks Bruce Lange Marketplace 1 July 23rd 03 01:55 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.