#31
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Bus racks
On 2018-08-29 10:50, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/29/2018 1:29 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-08-29 09:50, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/29/2018 10:45 AM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-08-28 21:42, John B. Slocomb wrote: One might ask, "why public transportation" when according to current figures the average U.S. family owns 1.968 autos? Typically because they want get to and from work faster. I do it out of environmental consciousness and it increases my cycling range. So far only light rail because the bus racks won't accommodate modern MTB. Y'know, when we bought our _house_, one criterion was that it had to work for transportation by bike. I think if I were buying a _bike_, I'd make sure it worked for transportation by bike. That would include fitting a bus rack, if that were part of my needs. No, first and foremost it has to work on the trails. I tried 26" bikes and they do not feel comfortable. DH versions do but they won't fit the bus racks either. 29" did feel great and 27-1/2" would as well but those weren't popular back when I bought my MTB. 27-1/2" won't fit the bus racks either. So, naturally, I bought a 29" MTB. And yet, so many people find a way... In our area those are typically the homeless. They have simple 26" bikes and AFAIK ride for free, so no revenue. Also, how can there be "many" if there's a whopping two bike slots per bus? -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
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#32
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Bus racks
On Wednesday, August 29, 2018 at 1:10:31 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Snipped But bus lines have difficult problems in most U.S. cities. Using buses gets much more difficult if the ridership isn't there, because bus frequency drops and wait times increase. It's classic "chicken and egg" or vicious cycle situation. I can only give thanks that I was never a person poor enough to be forced to waste an hour each day waiting for buses to arrive, or forced to turn down a better job because it ended after the last bus run. Things like that really can make it hard for people to better their situation. -- - Frank Krygowski Which is precisely why I became a serious bicyclist. I could come and go henever I wanted, get exercise and get to my destination usually faster than if I took a streetcar or bus. This was in Toronto Canada and was before bicycle racks were put on the front of the bus. Also, after work I could take a route homethat lead through a very nice scenic valley. People are often surprise when they find out that me going somewhere by bicycle is faster than them going to the same place by bus. Cheers |
#33
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Bus racks
On 8/29/2018 2:02 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-29 10:50, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/29/2018 1:29 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-08-29 09:50, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/29/2018 10:45 AM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-08-28 21:42, John B. Slocomb wrote: One might ask, "why public transportation" when according to current figures the average U.S. family owns 1.968 autos? Typically because they want get to and from work faster. I do it out of environmental consciousness and it increases my cycling range. So far only light rail because the bus racks won't accommodate modern MTB. Y'know, when we bought our _house_, one criterion was that it had to work for transportation by bike. I think if I were buying a _bike_, I'd make sure it worked for transportation by bike.Â* That would include fitting a bus rack, if that were part of my needs. No, first and foremost it has to work on the trails. I tried 26" bikes and they do not feel comfortable. DH versions do but they won't fit the bus racks either. 29" did feel great and 27-1/2" would as well but those weren't popular back when I bought my MTB. 27-1/2" won't fit the bus racks either. So, naturally, I bought a 29" MTB. And yet, so many people find a way... In our area those are typically the homeless. They have simple 26" bikes and AFAIK ride for free, so no revenue. So the homeless are figuring it out, but you can't? Maybe if you asked them for lessons, they could help you? ;-) Also, how can there be "many" if there's a whopping two bike slots per bus? Oh come on, Joerg. You've ranted about the numbers of homeless. They don't all have to be on the same bus at the same time to qualify as "many." -- - Frank Krygowski |
#34
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Bus racks
On 8/29/2018 2:13 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, August 29, 2018 at 1:10:31 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote: Snipped But bus lines have difficult problems in most U.S. cities. Using buses gets much more difficult if the ridership isn't there, because bus frequency drops and wait times increase. It's classic "chicken and egg" or vicious cycle situation. I can only give thanks that I was never a person poor enough to be forced to waste an hour each day waiting for buses to arrive, or forced to turn down a better job because it ended after the last bus run. Things like that really can make it hard for people to better their situation. -- - Frank Krygowski Which is precisely why I became a serious bicyclist. I could come and go henever I wanted, get exercise and get to my destination usually faster than if I took a streetcar or bus. This was in Toronto Canada and was before bicycle racks were put on the front of the bus. Also, after work I could take a route homethat lead through a very nice scenic valley. People are often surprise when they find out that me going somewhere by bicycle is faster than them going to the same place by bus. One guy I met once (and know online) is legally blind. I don't really know the limits of his vision, but it's impossible for him to drive a car. However, he found that he can ride a bike quite well. It literally opened up a new world for him. No more begging rides, trying to match times to bus schedules, etc. Nice guy, too, and very smart. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#35
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Bus racks
On 2018-08-29 11:16, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/29/2018 2:02 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-08-29 10:50, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/29/2018 1:29 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-08-29 09:50, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/29/2018 10:45 AM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-08-28 21:42, John B. Slocomb wrote: One might ask, "why public transportation" when according to current figures the average U.S. family owns 1.968 autos? Typically because they want get to and from work faster. I do it out of environmental consciousness and it increases my cycling range. So far only light rail because the bus racks won't accommodate modern MTB. Y'know, when we bought our _house_, one criterion was that it had to work for transportation by bike. I think if I were buying a _bike_, I'd make sure it worked for transportation by bike. That would include fitting a bus rack, if that were part of my needs. No, first and foremost it has to work on the trails. I tried 26" bikes and they do not feel comfortable. DH versions do but they won't fit the bus racks either. 29" did feel great and 27-1/2" would as well but those weren't popular back when I bought my MTB. 27-1/2" won't fit the bus racks either. So, naturally, I bought a 29" MTB. And yet, so many people find a way... In our area those are typically the homeless. They have simple 26" bikes and AFAIK ride for free, so no revenue. So the homeless are figuring it out, but you can't? Maybe if you asked them for lessons, they could help you? ;-) It's simple: They ride between bus stops and their illegal camp sites. They do not ride rough singletrack for tens of miles like I do. I saw the first homeless on a 29er around a couple years ago, not sure if he actually paid for that bike ... Also, how can there be "many" if there's a whopping two bike slots per bus? Oh come on, Joerg. You've ranted about the numbers of homeless. They don't all have to be on the same bus at the same time to qualify as "many." A bus seats 30-40. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#36
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Bus racks
On 8/29/2018 10:23 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-29 08:47, sms wrote: On 8/29/2018 7:45 AM, Joerg wrote: snip Sacramento Transit is suffering a substantial decline in ridership. If they can't catch more split-commute folks (car-transit and bike-transit) they'll have serious budget problems soon. Observations: This is an issue nationwide. There are multiple causes: 1. Ride-sharing services like Uber and Lyft are heavily subsidized by investors. When you have two or three passengers, an Uber or Lyft ride is often no more expensive than mass transit, especially in cities where the distances are not great. That's a problem but competition is good. For example, if transit agencies gave up this nonsensical requirement of paying a new fare for every leg (transfer) then public transit would beat Uber or Lyft. Three older adults can hardly ride an Uber for $3.75, plus they don't have to tip the train conductor or bus driver. They should look at how the airlines do it. You pay one fare from A to B no matter how many plane changes are involved. On SF Muni, one fare is good for 90 minutes (really longer for cash fares) On Santa Clara County VTA they brought back free transfers for two hours, if you use electronic payment. Investors subsidizing Uber and Lyft are losing billions of dollars while taking transit riders away from public transit, which costs taxpayers additional money. That is poor planning on the part of the transit agency. They need to change with the market and shift routes to where potential riders live or move. With buses that is not rocket science. The riders that were displaced are far away and transit doesn't work for them anymore. So they drive. At $40 million/mile (for above ground rail) there will be no light-rail trains out to where they live now. No point in buses since they are way too slow due to traffic congestion. Transit agencies should hold surveys to find out why people do not ride. They already know why. No more surveys are necessary. |
#37
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Bus racks
On Wednesday, August 29, 2018 at 10:00:21 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-29 09:22, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, August 29, 2018 at 7:22:25 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: snip That's what our power company PG&E pulled off. Instead of fixing fire danger prone overhead wiring they announced they'll simply cut power if there is high wind in summer. It is up to the political leaders to pull the charter if such behavior goes too far. I believe that in most, if not all, cases the generating plants are the property of the electric company. If the local government were to "cancel their contract" where would you get electricity from? Or do you propose that the local government, in some manner, perhaps by a tax increase, purchase the generating plants? It's about the distribution, not the plant. Utilities in America run on the cost-plus basis which means carte blanche. They could let them run the power plants that way but allow competition in the distribution. Even Germany did that which, compared to a the US, is much less capitalist. Rate-setting is not carte blanche. It is the opposite of carte blanche. An unregulated industry would mean all the remote moonscape towns you think are quaint would not get power because there is no market. The reason we got the rural electrification program, TVA, Bonneville, etc. was exactly because private industry wanted no part of it or the project was simply too big. It is carte blanche. Cost-plus means the utility can rack up any amount of cost, knowing they will always get x percent profit on top of that. I have seen the same behavior in government work. Costs must be "prudent," and costs that are excessive or unnecessary are disallowed. Utilities are entitled to a fair return but cannot price gouge, cannot gold-plate the power plant, etc., etc. Well regulated industries produce reasonable rates and reasonable returns, and around here, the CUB rides herd on the rate-making process, as do the huge industrial power users. Remember Enron? California electricity deregulation? How's that deregulation thing working for you? Texas has a species of deregulation, but even it is not free market. Free market is cable TV, and look how that's working out. Also, how would you propose competition in distribution when the distribution lines are owned by the incumbent provider? More wires? Who in their right mind would shell out the cash for a parallel distribution system? And if there were license agreements or shared infrastructure, then you would still have an entity responsible for repairs -- and undoubtedly someone you thought was incompetent or unworthy to send electricity to your home. There will always be someone who has to fix the broken ****. PG&E probably has as much competence as anyone when it comes to keeping lines repaired. It does but it does not deliver at an adequate price. We have among the highest electricity costs in the nation and not a very reliable grid anymore. Of course, part of it are nonsensical political mandates but a utility is supposed to stand up stronger against those. Of course, in a cost-plus deal it doesn't really matter to them or is actually beneficial to them because x percent gueranteed profit of a high total is more than x percent of a lower total. ... Try this free market electrical distribution system: https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015...8699426875.jpg In many countries that _is_ the work of a government agency or a monopoly.. Of course once furnishing electricity became the responsibility of the local government it would become a political factor, like road maintenance? Everything is a political factor these days. As I said it is rather easy to build a bike rack that fits contemporary bikes. But, according to your posts, the racks are already installed so you are talking about replacing them with a larger rack? Perhaps an increase in fare for cyclists until the new racks are paid for? No, I already explained that. When a design flaw is discovered they should try to get the vendor to perform the corrections for free. Munis have enough clout to tell them that else the biz in their direction could shrivel up. That's a good motivator. Competition can be a wonderful factor. Old American saying: If you don't take care of your customer someone else will. And yet in Portland, the private bus line went bankrupt -- along with the private trolley line. That's how we ended up with TriMet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_City_Transit Depends on the company. Our waste collection is done by a private entity. That runs cheaper, more reliably and more profitably than the typical municipal deal. You're changing subjects. Show me one private mass transit company. -- Jay Beattie. |
#38
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Bus racks
On 2018-08-29 15:17, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, August 29, 2018 at 10:00:21 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-08-29 09:22, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, August 29, 2018 at 7:22:25 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: snip That's what our power company PG&E pulled off. Instead of fixing fire danger prone overhead wiring they announced they'll simply cut power if there is high wind in summer. It is up to the political leaders to pull the charter if such behavior goes too far. I believe that in most, if not all, cases the generating plants are the property of the electric company. If the local government were to "cancel their contract" where would you get electricity from? Or do you propose that the local government, in some manner, perhaps by a tax increase, purchase the generating plants? It's about the distribution, not the plant. Utilities in America run on the cost-plus basis which means carte blanche. They could let them run the power plants that way but allow competition in the distribution. Even Germany did that which, compared to a the US, is much less capitalist. Rate-setting is not carte blanche. It is the opposite of carte blanche. An unregulated industry would mean all the remote moonscape towns you think are quaint would not get power because there is no market. The reason we got the rural electrification program, TVA, Bonneville, etc. was exactly because private industry wanted no part of it or the project was simply too big. It is carte blanche. Cost-plus means the utility can rack up any amount of cost, knowing they will always get x percent profit on top of that. I have seen the same behavior in government work. Costs must be "prudent," and costs that are excessive or unnecessary are disallowed. Utilities are entitled to a fair return but cannot price gouge, cannot gold-plate the power plant, etc., etc. Well regulated industries produce reasonable rates and reasonable returns, and around here, the CUB rides herd on the rate-making process, as do the huge industrial power users. Remember Enron? California electricity deregulation? How's that deregulation thing working for you? That's what Governor Gray Davis screwed up, creating a big new bureacracy and not allowing long-term contract. That was stupid and needless to say, resulted in blackouts. We called the Gray-Outs in his "honor". Texas has a species of deregulation, but even it is not free market. You have choice there and thus they have WAY better rates than we do. https://www.texaselectricityratings....ctricity-rates Multiply the TX rates by three and you get the CA rates. Free market is cable TV, and look how that's working out. It's not free, it's chartered just like electricity. Out here only Comcast/Xfinity is allowed to lay cable TV. However, one is free not to use it. Our family doesn't use it. This is slightly different with electricity. Also, how would you propose competition in distribution when the distribution lines are owned by the incumbent provider? More wires? Who in their right mind would shell out the cash for a parallel distribution system? And if there were license agreements or shared infrastructure, then you would still have an entity responsible for repairs -- and undoubtedly someone you thought was incompetent or unworthy to send electricity to your home. There will always be someone who has to fix the broken ****. PG&E probably has as much competence as anyone when it comes to keeping lines repaired. It does but it does not deliver at an adequate price. We have among the highest electricity costs in the nation and not a very reliable grid anymore. Of course, part of it are nonsensical political mandates but a utility is supposed to stand up stronger against those. Of course, in a cost-plus deal it doesn't really matter to them or is actually beneficial to them because x percent gueranteed profit of a high total is more than x percent of a lower total. ... Try this free market electrical distribution system: https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015...8699426875.jpg In many countries that _is_ the work of a government agency or a monopoly. Of course once furnishing electricity became the responsibility of the local government it would become a political factor, like road maintenance? Everything is a political factor these days. As I said it is rather easy to build a bike rack that fits contemporary bikes. But, according to your posts, the racks are already installed so you are talking about replacing them with a larger rack? Perhaps an increase in fare for cyclists until the new racks are paid for? No, I already explained that. When a design flaw is discovered they should try to get the vendor to perform the corrections for free. Munis have enough clout to tell them that else the biz in their direction could shrivel up. That's a good motivator. Competition can be a wonderful factor. Old American saying: If you don't take care of your customer someone else will. And yet in Portland, the private bus line went bankrupt -- along with the private trolley line. That's how we ended up with TriMet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_City_Transit Depends on the company. Our waste collection is done by a private entity. That runs cheaper, more reliably and more profitably than the typical municipal deal. You're changing subjects. Show me one private mass transit company. That's easy: https://www.citylab.com/transportati...k-so-well/389/ Is that enough "mass"? In Germany I used a lot of private transit buses and trains and it worked well. They were often cleaner than those of the munis. Unfortunately I can't find useful stuff in English from more recent times, just in German: https://www.handelsblatt.com/unterne...7ufYbSq232-ap5 This kind of sums it up, quote "Die Konkurrenten fahren der Deutschen Bahn davon. 33 Prozent der Leistung im Nahverkehr auf der Schiene werden in diesem Jahr durch Züge von Abellio, Keolis & Co. gefahren" which translates into "The [private] competition is pulling away from the [government-owned] German Railroad. 33 percent of the passenger load in local rail transit this year will be handled by Abellio, Keolis & Co". I added comments in square brackets because most readers here won't know which is private and which is publicly owned. This is one of the coolest private transit companies where you can ride a really classic bus if you get a group together: https://www.svg-busreisen.de/die-svg/ueber-uns/die-svg/ https://www.svg-busreisen.de/die-svg...ward-oldiebus/ They also run the school buses in that area. Sorry, they also have no site in English. If you want to decipher something let me know. Smaller ones in the US: https://www.ctpost.com/local/article...r-12627172.php Long story short we must broaden our horizon and look across the fence, to other countries. Just like they (and certainly Germany) could learn a ton from US bike path designers. If they were willing ... -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#39
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Bus racks
On Wed, 29 Aug 2018 07:45:19 -0700, Joerg
wrote: On 2018-08-28 21:42, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Tue, 28 Aug 2018 21:15:53 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 8/28/2018 9:01 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Tue, 28 Aug 2018 21:49:49 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/28/2018 7:27 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Tue, 28 Aug 2018 07:43:58 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2018-08-27 18:13, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Mon, 27 Aug 2018 17:43:40 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2018-08-27 16:20, Frank Krygowski wrote: On Monday, August 27, 2018 at 5:49:57 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote: On 2018-08-27 13:53, Sir Ridesalot wrote: Reading the thread about bus racks being to short for some bicycles got me to thinking about how the bicycle is supported in the rack. When I worked in bicycle shops we called those bicycle parking racks with the two low hoops to hold the wheels "wheel benders" as we often had wheel repairs that were caused by the sideways force on the wheels. I wonder if bus racks have the same problem at times if that front wheel hook is not supporting the bicycle from swaying a bit side to side. The wheel hook is what is supposed to prevent it from swaying. A wheel itself can't. Just imagine: While the racks on our buses are barely wide enough to squeeze in my 2.25" wide rear tire a 25mm road bike tire would make the bike almost fall over, considering that the slot is just around 4" deep. Some people who still run 23mm tires or even less would also risk marring their rims badly when the sides of the rims would bang against the steel tube of the rack rail all the time. You'd likely feel the damage immediately the first time you use the rim brakes. Another detail I noticed: The handlebar end of my MTB was very close to the windshield of the bus. Scary. I watched it on the freeway and while the bike "came closer" it didn't quite touch glass. Despite the panniers. That only worked because I had shortened the handlebar significantly a few months after I bought the MTB. What would happen if the handlebar touched the glass? Possibly a crack. Since it is curved glass that would cause an expensive repair and loss of service costs while the bus is in the shop. One can only speculate. Generally speaking, if you break someone's window, you get to pay for it, in some manner. Not if the rack was sub-par and caused the event. You mean if the bus company is nice enough to install bicycle racks that, as you previously wrote, fit many bicycles and your bicycle doesn't fit so a window gets broken it is the bus company's fault? Logically then it is to the bus company's advantage to get rid of the bicycle racks and thus avoid the expense of broken windows. It's a non-issue, important only in Joerg's mind. If the bus company had a problem with broken windshields, they'd have fixed the racks or protected the windshields long ago. One might also speculate on whether the majority of the bus riders actually care whether bicycle racks are installed, or not. Sacramento Transit seems to think that two bicycle carriers per bus are adequate. This may miss the larger trend: https://www.cato.org/publications/po...sit-apocalypse Sacramento Transit is suffering a substantial decline in ridership. If they can't catch more split-commute folks (car-transit and bike-transit) they'll have serious budget problems soon. Observations: Actually they have a budget problem already. The public transportation systems in the U.S. are subsidized and all seem to lose money. The New York transportation system loses about $.75/passenger while the Virginia HRT losses nearly 7 dollars a passenger. https://bit.ly/2HiRxTs Which, given that the average U.S. family owns 1.9 autos seem a foolish waste of money at one end of the spectrum, or the other. The light rail from town to the outskirts is often more than maxed out with bicycles on board. You carry them onto the train car. There are two allowed per end section of a car but often there are three to four. P&R parking structures in some areas are already full before 7:30am and then all day. There is a large number of homeless on the trains and in local buses here plus shady people milling around some stops. I know lots of potential riders who do not use the systems because of that, certainly not with young kids in tow. Transfers require another fare, meaning that many people must pay four to six times per round trip. That can result in the car being a more economical mode of transportation. So we know what needs to be done. They are trying to wing it with a 10% fare reduction but that won't be more than a drop in the bucket. https://www.sacbee.com/latest-news/a...217389425.html One might ask, "why public transportation" when according to current figures the average U.S. family owns 1.968 autos? Typically because they want get to and from work faster. I do it out of environmental consciousness and it increases my cycling range. So far only light rail because the bus racks won't accommodate modern MTB. Lots of cyclists in my area use their pickup trucks instead. The environmentally worst method is the two-location shuttle method. Silly boy. If carrying your bicycle in a pickup causes environmental damage just ride the bicycle. |
#40
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Bus racks
On Wed, 29 Aug 2018 12:03:01 -0700, Joerg
wrote: On 2018-08-29 11:16, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/29/2018 2:02 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-08-29 10:50, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/29/2018 1:29 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-08-29 09:50, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/29/2018 10:45 AM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-08-28 21:42, John B. Slocomb wrote: One might ask, "why public transportation" when according to current figures the average U.S. family owns 1.968 autos? Typically because they want get to and from work faster. I do it out of environmental consciousness and it increases my cycling range. So far only light rail because the bus racks won't accommodate modern MTB. Y'know, when we bought our _house_, one criterion was that it had to work for transportation by bike. I think if I were buying a _bike_, I'd make sure it worked for transportation by bike. That would include fitting a bus rack, if that were part of my needs. No, first and foremost it has to work on the trails. I tried 26" bikes and they do not feel comfortable. DH versions do but they won't fit the bus racks either. 29" did feel great and 27-1/2" would as well but those weren't popular back when I bought my MTB. 27-1/2" won't fit the bus racks either. So, naturally, I bought a 29" MTB. And yet, so many people find a way... In our area those are typically the homeless. They have simple 26" bikes and AFAIK ride for free, so no revenue. So the homeless are figuring it out, but you can't? Maybe if you asked them for lessons, they could help you? ;-) It's simple: They ride between bus stops and their illegal camp sites. They do not ride rough singletrack for tens of miles like I do. I saw the first homeless on a 29er around a couple years ago, not sure if he actually paid for that bike ... I'm not sure that I understand your statement. You say that you ride tens of miles but you need to load your bike on a bus? Does this mean that you only ride the down hill portion of the trail? Take the bus to the top of the hill and coast down? A real cyclist! Also, how can there be "many" if there's a whopping two bike slots per bus? Oh come on, Joerg. You've ranted about the numbers of homeless. They don't all have to be on the same bus at the same time to qualify as "many." A bus seats 30-40. |
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