RIVENUT and other cracks

On Mon, 23 Sep 2013 12:32:28 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Monday, September 23, 2013 12:59:10 PM UTC-4, sms wrote:

LOL, in Frank's world, if a Google search shows no results of something
happening then clearly "that something" has never ever occurred ...

Rather, in Frank's world, if a person warns about great likelihood of terrible hazards, but cannot produce documentation of those hazards ever occurring, that person is delusional at best.

Scharf is a lot like a salesman for zombie repellent.

- Frank Krygowski

Henry James has it that:

" Frequently Made Statements (FMS's) are just that. Some are true,
useful, and based on common sense experience and/or backed by sound
engineering.

But there is a lot of hype in the bicycle industry. Misinformation is
rampant. Many statements are repeated as if proven fact, when they
probably just came from an ad campaign, or some poor soul trying to
rationalize a bad purchase decision, or blowhards talking about things
they don't understand, or a fact has been taken out of a narrow
context and overgeneralized to promote someone's business. Too many
FMS's contain more hype than fact... "

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 23 Sep 2013 09:59:10 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 9/23/2013 8:51 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/23/2013 10:19 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-001/000.html#Frame finds nothing when
searching "rivnut." I think the frame failures are entirely mythical.

And that in a world with plenty of not-Rivnut failures:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/SPLITCD2.JPG

LOL, in Frank's world, if a Google search shows no results of something
happening then clearly "that something" has never ever occurred because
as we all know, everyone posts everything that happens to everyone
somewhere online. And of course if only one person posts something, then
he or she is the only person in the world that ever experienced that
thing happening, and one person out of eight billion or so is insignificant.

But actually it's true that all the complaints you find online about
Rivnuts on aluminum frames relate to the Rivnut coming loose and
spinning, not the frame cracking (the cracked frame complaints about
Rivnuts are all on carbon fiber frames). And the reason for this is the
way that the frame manufacturers drill the frame tubes and install the
Rivnuts. They are not put in so tight that forcing a stuck bolt, or
over-tightening, would crack the frame. So you don't see the rivet nuts
(whether the Rivnut brand or other brand) with the notches being used on
bicycles.

What we're actually talking about here is the wisdom of a bicycle owner
attempting to drill properly sized, aligned, and spaced, holes in their
frames and riveting in Rivnuts at home. Besides the obvious warranty
issues, unless you have a proper machine shop and the proper tools and
jigs, no one would think that doing this is a good idea.


You keep harping on the need for a "proper machine shop" to install
rivnuts but the actual tools required are a ruler, a pointed punch of
some sort, a hand drill, either air, electric or hand, and a bolt, nut
and wrench to turn it, or other device to squeeze the rivet.

Hardly restricted to the machine shop, they are probably found in many
home tool kits.

Your continual statement implying that these tools are only available
in a "proper machine shop" leads one to think that you really don't
know what you are talking about.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 9/23/2013 2:02 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 23 Sep 2013 11:01:37 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six
wrote:

On Monday, 23 September 2013 18:24:37 UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 23 Sep 2013 05:30:40 -0700 (PDT), datakoll
wrote:
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...tm%3B476%3B315

Which picture shows a cracked frame caused by a Rivnut?
http://www.m-gineering.nl/bidonscheur.jpg

is a welding failure !

Which is what I guessed previously:

threads and color suggest steel, not aluminum. Kinda looks like a
steel insert, on a steel frame, with a bad factory resistance welding
job, but I'm not sure.

I don't know what can be done to fix that. Offhand, I would braze it
back together. If lazy, maybe epoxy and some paint. One thing for
sure, after zooming in on the image, it's NOT a Rivnut.
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/bidonscheur.jpg
It also looks like it has had some impact damage. Despite the text, I
don't think it was used to mount a water bottle. My guess(tm) is
something big, loose, and heavy, possibly a trailer or platform.


Hard to scale that image but the thread looks relatively
coarse for an m5x0.8 bottle mount and it appears to be
aluminum from the crack pattern and weld format.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

WELL, THE PAGE HAS INFORMATION, access to the author. Ask M if he held the piece before misidentifying.

Tellum I sent you.

On 9/23/2013 7:09 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 23 Sep 2013 16:51:11 -0700 (PDT), datakoll
wrote:

looks like heavy sledding Lieb

https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&t...erritsen+email

Hint: I'm not going to click on any random URL unless you explain
what I expect to see, why it's important, or what point are you trying
to make.


Good for you.
I don't click URLs which begin with www.gurgle.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Skype: JeffLiebermann


eyehahha someone hammered it back in !

you know if the subject is taken seriously maybe mid range cycle construction is downhill in quality from the economic environment or a trend downward in appreciation.

On Monday, September 23, 2013 8:50:37 PM UTC-4, James wrote:

Is it Al or Fe? I'm guessing Al due to the lack of red corrosion.

I thought the same thing.

- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, September 23, 2013 8:59:40 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:

Henry James has it that:

" Frequently Made Statements (FMS's) are just that. Some are true,
useful, and based on common sense experience and/or backed by sound
engineering.

But there is a lot of hype in the bicycle industry. Misinformation is
rampant. Many statements are repeated as if proven fact, when they
probably just came from an ad campaign, or some poor soul trying to
rationalize a bad purchase decision, or blowhards talking about things
they don't understand, or a fact has been taken out of a narrow
context and overgeneralized to promote someone's business. Too many
FMS's contain more hype than fact... "

He omitted "guerrilla marketing," a la Scharf.

- Frank Krygowski

On Mon, 23 Sep 2013 19:52:11 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Monday, September 23, 2013 8:59:40 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:

Henry James has it that:

" Frequently Made Statements (FMS's) are just that. Some are true,
useful, and based on common sense experience and/or backed by sound
engineering.

But there is a lot of hype in the bicycle industry. Misinformation is
rampant. Many statements are repeated as if proven fact, when they
probably just came from an ad campaign, or some poor soul trying to
rationalize a bad purchase decision, or blowhards talking about things
they don't understand, or a fact has been taken out of a narrow
context and overgeneralized to promote someone's business. Too many
FMS's contain more hype than fact... "

He omitted "guerrilla marketing," a la Scharf.

- Frank Krygowski

Well, he did say "to promote someone's business" :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

1971



I don't interfere with them and they don't interfere with me

HOW'S THAT WORK NOW ? German websites into USA via Google or what ? you gotta choice ? ...paste the base into your tomato can n search from there

I could use instant anonymous email address software and a Corp location for pseudo anon contract obligations.

both XM and UTUBE.

look for info on UTUBE n I hear a stream of hot BS having nothing to do with the spec info source just ragging on me lika buncha old women they are.

I wuz goin to Cal to do more work for them but they can stick it.