Triton Sponge frames... titanium trials.

So far the frame looks realy nice. But for me the most important
question is the weight because I dont care how strong it is as long as
it is something like the nimbus frames. I think most people dont give
much pressure on the frame.

Is it possible to get the frame in long neck?


--
Lutz

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what about a Ti seatclamp? or what seatclamps do you have to use with
that frame? what seatpost diameter?


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Smilymarco

'Municycle.com' (http://www.municycle.com)



DustinSchaap wrote:

tamesa is hot
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I designed it specifically to have a short neck because longnecks get
battered hit a lot more on walls and stuff when you fail things. Long
necks aren't essential for trials to be honest, i'd far rather scratch
the hell out of a seatpost then have a longneck taking all the smack
from hitting walls. Plus shorter neck is lighter after all...

I don't know about weight right now, I can say that The Ti which is now
in my possession (dan and zack's old titanium frame from defect/u2) is
ridiculously light, lighter than the KH alu frame. But i'm not 100% on
the Triton Sponge weights, i'll go weigh them when i get out of school
(i'm a boarder)

Sorry i didn't include all the info in my first post. I was rather
rushed at the time:

Seattube to take 27.2mm posts and 31.8mm clamps. Essentially the same
as a KH seattube. I made it that way on purpose as I really dislike
smaller sizes. This is the perfect size for me, and i'm sure for many
others too.

If testing yields positive results then this will be how the frames
stay.

Sponge.


--
Sponge

MSN: feel free to add



*"Bikes are made to do trials, unis aren't."- Joe Hodges*




*"There is no reason to take skill level into account when making
friends with someone."- Brandon Hoerres*
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How long until these frames have been "extensively tested" and be
introduced to the market?

Say, three months?


--
Danni

leo wrote:
Without cocks you wouldn't even have a family forum.



'My Trials Course'
(http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64079)
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Beautiful work indeed, and your attention to detail is astounding. I was
wrong to ever doubt...

Out of curiosity, on the little flanges at the inside corners of the
crown, is the tube those flanges went over welded? I ask because if it
is, there would be an airtight seal when the flanges are welded on,
which would make welding it extremely difficult. At one of my jobs we
were sealing some 8' long 1" stainless tubes, and if we didn't have a
big enough vent hole, the air inside would expand and blow the molten
weld puddle out into the welder's face.

From my experience (not bike parts but machining and welding), titanium
parts are indeed extremely expensive because of the work it takes to
fabricate them. That said, the metal ain't cheap to start with. Also,
I've made a number of titanium rings on a dinky little home lathe.
Anyone who tells you titanium is hard to turn is feeding you BS.

I recently found out that there is actually an American company, most
famous for machine tooling (like carbide cutting inserts, etc), that
fabricates quite a few titanium bike frames. From bikepro.com:

"Titanium alloy Ti-3Al-2.5V, is the titanium alloy that Sandvik Special
Metals has made so famous, in tubing form, in the bicycle industry.
Sandvik is a maker of seamless tubing from ingot of this alloy. They
will sell the tubing to small parts makers to be re-manufactured into
bicycle components. More commonly, Sandvik is contracted to
re-manufacture the titanium tubing on behalf of the bicycle parts maker
to the maker's specifications, for a contracted price. Sandvik's tool
set and titanium fabrication experience is probably un-parallelled, and
our examination of their work has shown flawless quality in the miter
cuts and joining welds. Sandvik sells and uses Ti-3Al-2.5V tubing that
has been cold worked to increase the materials strength. To reduce the
residual stress left after cold working, the tubing is then "stress
relieved" which is a process of heating the metal to a suitable
temperature, below melting or "recrystalization", and holding this
temperature long enough to reduce the residual stress of the cold work,
then cooling it slowly enough to minimize the development of new
residual stresses."

Side note: When aircraft burn, the aluminum usually melts. Same with
cars in forest firest...

Side note 2: Sponge is absolutely right about titanium burning in a
nitrogen atmosphere (the only metal that will, in fact), however
nitrogen is very rarely used as a shielding gas for welding. Much more
common is argon, helium, or argon/CO2 mix. You also don't need a gas
tent, as they are called. Many bike frame jigs have plugs for the tube
ends with air nipples so you can "bleed" the tubes from the back with
argon, and hten use a specially large shielding cup on your TIG torch.
That said, the during the cold war, the Russians made some submarines
with hulls made entirely from titanium. the Americans were totally
confused how this could have been done, unless the Russians had
invented a new titanium welding process or alloy. Eventually they
noticed a drydock which they found out was completely airtight. The
Russians made an argon tent the size of a hangar, and then sent workmen
in wearing SCUBA gear to do the welding on the hulls.


--
gerblefranklin

(Shut up and ride)

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gerblefranklin wrote:


Side note 2: Sponge is absolutely right about titanium burning in a
nitrogen atmosphere (the only metal that will, in fact), however
nitrogen is very rarely used as a shielding gas for welding. Much more
common is argon, helium, or argon/CO2 mix. You also don't need a gas
tent, as they are called. Many bike frame jigs have plugs for the tube
ends with air nipples so you can "bleed" the tubes from the back with
argon, and hten use a specially large shielding cup on your TIG torch.
That said, the during the cold war, the Russians made some submarines
with hulls made entirely from titanium. the Americans were totally
confused how this could have been done, unless the Russians had
invented a new titanium welding process or alloy. Eventually they
noticed a drydock which they found out was completely airtight. The
Russians made an argon tent the size of a hangar, and then sent workmen
in wearing SCUBA gear to do the welding on the hulls.



Cool fact to know (not being sarcastic)

Peter M


--
Probailer2

Supported by www.municycle.com
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gerblefranklin wrote:
Side note: When aircraft burn, the aluminum usually melts. Same with
cars in forest firest...


Thanks for fixing this...I was skeptical that aluminum would burn to a
powder. However, I did some searching, and I can't find the
autoignition temperature for aluminum listed anywhere, though I did
find some studies on burning aluminum. Anyone know what that
temperature is?


gerblefranklin wrote:
Side note 2: Sponge is absolutely right about titanium burning in a
nitrogen atmosphere (the only metal that will, in fact), however
nitrogen is very rarely used as a shielding gas for welding.


It was me that said this...and thanks for correcting me. What I meant
was that nitrogen is a typical "inert gas", but I realized afterwards
that it isn't used for welding, that argon typically is.


--
onelesscar

Catching the coker fever.
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Probailer2 wrote:
Cool fact to know (not being sarcastic)

Peter M


I totally agree, that must have been an engineering breakthrough at the
time.


--
Borgschulze

'deviantART'
(http://borgschulze.deviantart.com/)'Gravity'
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If you melt a large enough piece of aluminum some of it may remain as an
unoxidized lump, and some will turn into a white powder. Try putting a
beer can in a hot campfire. Because it's thin, it oxidizes into a white
powder faster then it melts, so it sort of disappears into the ash. I
presume the white powder is aluminum oxide, but I am not sure. I have
spent more time drinking beer around campfires then doing metallurgical
research.


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This is totally off-topic, but...

Yes, aluminum oxidizes, but it does not burn. Aluminum forms a very
strong, well sealed oxide coating which inhibits the surface breakups
that allow flames to form. When wood burns, tiny bits of wood dust are
blown off the surface of the wood, and burn in the air, which is what
you see when you see flames. Fire retardants work by creating strong
polymers that prevent the material from releasing bits of itself into
the air to form flames. Aluminum's oxide coating acts as a fire
retardant. If you want to hear about flames and aluminum though, google
"thermite reactions". All of this is from my highschool chem class, 2
years ago, so please, correct me if I'm wrong.

Are you sure that damaged airplane wasn't magnesium? Many American WWII
aircraft used magnesium airfame components. I've heard stories of
burning aircraft crash landing on carriers. As soon as they got the
pilot out, they'd literally push the craft off the deck to clear for
other craft to land. The magnesium burns so hot that supposedly the
airframe would separate seawater into hydrogen and oxygen, the fueling
the burning airframe until the murkiness of the sea obscured it.

Back to the titanium frame, I'm curious about the order of fabrication
on the bearing holders... Did you machine the bearing seat first, and
then weld on the screw tabs, or did you weld, then machine. I would
have done the latter, but I'm curious as to how the pros do it.

Also, another note that supports you threading the bottom caps and
running the screws from the top: During bad pedalgrabs, the screw heads
will be damaged and mushroomed, which will make it hard to fit an allen
wrench in. By putting the screws in from the top, you prevent this.


--
gerblefranklin

(Shut up and ride)

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