#1
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Division 1 dopers?
Anyone have a list of Division 1 cyclists who have been found guilty of
doping in the last two years? |
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#2
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Division 1 dopers?
Chachi wrote: Anyone have a list of Division 1 cyclists who have been found guilty of doping in the last two years? not enough bandwith here for that list. |
#4
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Division 1 dopers?
Simon Brooke wrote: The issue of DNA testing isn't going to go away. If the Operacion Puerto accused don't voluntarily submit to it, it looks like they cannot be convicted, because the other evidence (apart from the blood) won't stand up in court. On the other hand, if they don't voluntarily submit to it, they will never be accepted as truly clean - it will always be seen that they 'got away with it'. Next year, the sport is just going to have to insist on licenced riders providing samples for DNA testing. Puncturing the perceived "infallibility" of DNA testing (real quick read): http://www.click2houston.com/news/2022791/detail.html That one doesn't mention the outright lying (false court testimony), hiding of exculpatory evidence, etc. etc. I'm wondering where the handwringers left their understanding that "people" need protection from the legal system. Including the right to refuse to testify against yourself. Give my DNA to Dick Pound? The guy who said that Marion Jones needs to shut her mouth or he would take all her medals away? Dick "get me a positive reader in here!" Pound? Not very likely. "Accepted as truly clean"? How is it that DNA testing will make the sport "truly clean"? It's just another faulty test, administered by oh-so-imperfect human beings, like all the rest of the tests that have been so pitifully bad at catching "dopers". Put the blame where it *really* belongs: on the rulemakers who make rules they can't enforce fairly and openly. Blame those who constructed the framework that ensures, to an athlete, that his competitors can "cheat" (as defined by said rules) and most likely not be caught. Do you have a solution, a fix for this problem? I don't. Catching a few (by the police!) and hanging them hasn't worked so far. Shall we hang them twice? "Truly clean"? It's a pretty picture. It isn't real. --D-y |
#5
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Division 1 dopers?
Do you have a solution, a fix for this problem? I don't. Catching a few (by the police!) and hanging them hasn't worked so far. Shall we hang them twice? No, hang them then burn them. With a drawing and quartering in somewhere too. Did you see this one: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060918/od_nm/india_dc it didn't exactly work either. -dB |
#6
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Division 1 dopers?
wrote: Simon Brooke wrote: The issue of DNA testing isn't going to go away. If the Operacion Puerto accused don't voluntarily submit to it, it looks like they cannot be convicted, because the other evidence (apart from the blood) won't stand up in court. On the other hand, if they don't voluntarily submit to it, they will never be accepted as truly clean - it will always be seen that they 'got away with it'. Next year, the sport is just going to have to insist on licenced riders providing samples for DNA testing. Puncturing the perceived "infallibility" of DNA testing (real quick read): http://www.click2houston.com/news/2022791/detail.html That one doesn't mention the outright lying (false court testimony), hiding of exculpatory evidence, etc. etc. I'm wondering where the handwringers left their understanding that "people" need protection from the legal system. Including the right to refuse to testify against yourself. Give my DNA to Dick Pound? The guy who said that Marion Jones needs to shut her mouth or he would take all her medals away? Dick "get me a positive reader in here!" Pound? Not very likely. "Accepted as truly clean"? How is it that DNA testing will make the sport "truly clean"? It's just another faulty test, administered by oh-so-imperfect human beings, like all the rest of the tests that have been so pitifully bad at catching "dopers". Put the blame where it *really* belongs: on the rulemakers who make rules they can't enforce fairly and openly. Blame those who constructed the framework that ensures, to an athlete, that his competitors can "cheat" (as defined by said rules) and most likely not be caught. Do you have a solution, a fix for this problem? I don't. Catching a few (by the police!) and hanging them hasn't worked so far. Shall we hang them twice? "Truly clean"? It's a pretty picture. It isn't real. --D-y Glad to see you still have the energy to keep up the fight. I'm appluding from the sidelines. What we need is an injecttion of justice and honesty all around. I'm not going to hold my breath. Pound still hasn't found anyone that did anything wrong in the Olympic bribery scandal. Amazing, isn't it, how a man who sees criminals everywhere couldn't find any when it was in his personal interest not to? Pound is perfectly suited for US politics. He's a scumbag with nothing resembling reasonable ethics, but can do NO wrong for his idiotic blind supporters. It's impossible to overestimate the power of human stupidity! Bill C |
#7
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Division 1 dopers?
Bill C wrote: wrote: Simon Brooke wrote: The issue of DNA testing isn't going to go away. If the Operacion Puerto accused don't voluntarily submit to it, it looks like they cannot be convicted, because the other evidence (apart from the blood) won't stand up in court. On the other hand, if they don't voluntarily submit to it, they will never be accepted as truly clean - it will always be seen that they 'got away with it'. Next year, the sport is just going to have to insist on licenced riders providing samples for DNA testing. Puncturing the perceived "infallibility" of DNA testing (real quick read): http://www.click2houston.com/news/2022791/detail.html That one doesn't mention the outright lying (false court testimony), hiding of exculpatory evidence, etc. etc. I'm wondering where the handwringers left their understanding that "people" need protection from the legal system. Including the right to refuse to testify against yourself. Give my DNA to Dick Pound? The guy who said that Marion Jones needs to shut her mouth or he would take all her medals away? Dick "get me a positive reader in here!" Pound? Not very likely. "Accepted as truly clean"? How is it that DNA testing will make the sport "truly clean"? It's just another faulty test, administered by oh-so-imperfect human beings, like all the rest of the tests that have been so pitifully bad at catching "dopers". Put the blame where it *really* belongs: on the rulemakers who make rules they can't enforce fairly and openly. Blame those who constructed the framework that ensures, to an athlete, that his competitors can "cheat" (as defined by said rules) and most likely not be caught. Do you have a solution, a fix for this problem? I don't. Catching a few (by the police!) and hanging them hasn't worked so far. Shall we hang them twice? "Truly clean"? It's a pretty picture. It isn't real. --D-y Glad to see you still have the energy to keep up the fight. I'm appluding from the sidelines. What we need is an injecttion of justice and honesty all around. I'm not going to hold my breath. Pound still hasn't found anyone that did anything wrong in the Olympic bribery scandal. Amazing, isn't it, how a man who sees criminals everywhere couldn't find any when it was in his personal interest not to? Pound is perfectly suited for US politics. He's a scumbag with nothing resembling reasonable ethics, but can do NO wrong for his idiotic blind supporters. It's impossible to overestimate the power of human stupidity! Bill C Hondo? |
#8
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Division 1 dopers?
It seems to be a very short list. So far there's Tyler Hamilton, Santi
Perez, and Danilo Hondo. Besides those, I can't find anyone else. Seems like the drug testing is a total boondoggle. On the other hand, Operacion Puerto finds that upwards of 60 riders are on a doping program and doping rings in Belgium, France, Italy and Germany were broken up. It seems that all the current testing is doing is forcing the riders to more sophisticated methods, newer and less common drugs and more masking agents. Cycling is in a downward death spiral. "Chachi" wrote in message ... Anyone have a list of Division 1 cyclists who have been found guilty of doping in the last two years? |
#9
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Division 1 dopers?
in message , Chachi
') wrote: It seems to be a very short list. So far there's Tyler Hamilton, Santi Perez, and Danilo Hondo. Besides those, I can't find anyone else. Seems like the drug testing is a total boondoggle. On the other hand, Operacion Puerto finds that upwards of 60 riders are on a doping program and doping rings in Belgium, France, Italy and Germany were broken up. It seems that all the current testing is doing is forcing the riders to more sophisticated methods, newer and less common drugs and more masking agents. Or else there's actually much less doping going on than the hysterics would have one believe. The 200 blood bags found at Fuentes belong to someone - and, I would guess, probably at least fifty someones, not necessarily all cyclists. There isn't any obvious innocent reason for their being there. And, of course, Fuentes' was almost certainly not the only clinic. So blood doping, at least, is going on on a significant scale. But it's not at all necessarily the case that everone who was doing business business with Fuentes was doping. Fuentes is, after all, an acknowledged expert in sports medicine, and may well have been supplying permitted services as well as 'special' ones. And not everyone whom Fuentes denied was doing business with him necessarily was doing business with him. If Fuentes said 'I don't know Simon Brooke', he'd be telling the truth. Why do we assume he's lying when he says 'I don't know Ivan Basso'? But to get back to the point, the reason so few people have been convicted is because very little evidence has been found, but a lot of smear and innuendo has been going on. If doping is going on on the scale Dick Pound alleges, the evidence must be everywhere. The fact that it hasn't been found means either (a) he's not doing his job, or (b) he's not telling the truth. -- (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/ ;; Usenet: like distance learning without the learning. |
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