Landis Hearing Closed

"billb" wrote in message
ups.com...

Tell is something Bill, while you were proud being an attorney did some
sorts group falsely accuse a leading athlete of cheating and then spend
more
than a year of the most profitable period of that athlete's life
finagling
about it?

Something tells me that as an attorney you hadn't a single clue about
what
the hell you were really supposed to be doing. My guess is that Daniel
Webster was more in your line.

Every system, judicial or otherwise, must function well for the
majority of its applications. Legislation/design by anecdote leads
only to disorganization and chaos -- much like your grammar and
attempts at thought.

If I understand your sidestepping properly you seem to be saying that it's
perfectly OK to falsely accuse Floyd of cheating and to keep him from making
a living for what would have been the most profitable years of his career.

Why is it that I'm not in the least surprised that a lawyer would hold such
a position?

If Bill C wasn't of another opinion I wouldn't hold you in much light.

On Sep 15, 3:14 pm, "Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote:
"billb" wrote in message

ups.com...







Tell is something Bill, while you were proud being an attorney did some
sorts group falsely accuse a leading athlete of cheating and then spend
more
than a year of the most profitable period of that athlete's life
finagling
about it?

Something tells me that as an attorney you hadn't a single clue about
what
the hell you were really supposed to be doing. My guess is that Daniel
Webster was more in your line.

Every system, judicial or otherwise, must function well for the
majority of its applications. Legislation/design by anecdote leads
only to disorganization and chaos -- much like your grammar and
attempts at thought.

If I understand your sidestepping properly you seem to be saying that it's
perfectly OK to falsely accuse Floyd of cheating and to keep him from making
a living for what would have been the most profitable years of his career.

Why is it that I'm not in the least surprised that a lawyer would hold such
a position?

If Bill C wasn't of another opinion I wouldn't hold you in much light.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

My initial response was regarding your suggesting that organizations
be sued out of existence if FL were exonerated -- I did not take a
position on the merits of the FL situation.
Best,
Bill Black

"billb" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Sep 15, 3:14 pm, "Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote:
"billb" wrote in message

ups.com...







Tell is something Bill, while you were proud being an attorney did
some
sorts group falsely accuse a leading athlete of cheating and then
spend
more
than a year of the most profitable period of that athlete's life
finagling
about it?

Something tells me that as an attorney you hadn't a single clue
about
what
the hell you were really supposed to be doing. My guess is that
Daniel
Webster was more in your line.

Every system, judicial or otherwise, must function well for the
majority of its applications. Legislation/design by anecdote leads
only to disorganization and chaos -- much like your grammar and
attempts at thought.

If I understand your sidestepping properly you seem to be saying that
it's
perfectly OK to falsely accuse Floyd of cheating and to keep him from
making
a living for what would have been the most profitable years of his
career.

Why is it that I'm not in the least surprised that a lawyer would
hold such
a position?

If Bill C wasn't of another opinion I wouldn't hold you in much
light.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

My initial response was regarding your suggesting that organizations
be sued out of existence if FL were exonerated -- I did not take a
position on the merits of the FL situation.
Best,
Bill Black

Interesting that you would take umbrage at Tom's remark. Here's hoping
you give hell to the sue-happy of your profession. We had a lawyer come
and give a seminar on sexual misconduct at our school district a couple
of weeks ago. This was the defense attorney of one Mary Kay Letourneau
(Michael A.Patterson, LLB, JD). This guy was telling us how he would
like to get the wages stopped of any teacher under investigation and
suspension. For him it's obviously all about the money (several other
examples of this) and not, innocent till proved guilty. For school
teachers, it has nothing to do with the money; most of us were offended
by his stance. Way to go in making a dent in the general perception of
your profession.

Phil H

On Sep 15, 2:14 pm, "Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote:
If I understand your sidestepping properly you seem to be saying that it's
perfectly OK to falsely accuse Floyd of cheating and to keep him from making
a living for what would have been the most profitable years of his career.

Gosh, Tom, what makes you think Floyd Landis was falsely accused?

(trying again) (Gee Mr. Wizard approach this time) (why not) --D-y

Come on Tom, I'll post my real name g

"billb" wrote in message
ups.com...

My initial response was regarding your suggesting that organizations
be sued out of existence if FL were exonerated -- I did not take a
position on the merits of the FL situation.

I see. Apparently you agree that the UCI should be able to stop Valverde
from racing at the Worlds after his own national organization looked
carefully over the presented evidence WHICH WAS GATHERED IN THEIR OWN
COUNTRY and decided that the evidence wasn't complete enough to warrant any
movement against him.

You must think that ASO and WADA are perfectly justified in kicking out
teams for transgressions by a single rider outside of the team's control.

If the evidence presented to us as true in the Landis case is factual the
UCI should be up on criminal charges and not just sued out of existence.

On Sep 15, 2:12 pm, " wrote:
On Sep 15, 9:54 am, billb wrote:

Every system, judicial or otherwise, must function well for the
majority of its applications.

I just want to be clear that I was only asking Kunich to state his
case.

I was nice and said please in hopes of seeing a calm, ordered
presentation of information and opinion. He (Tom Kunich) is very
capable, when he chooses, to perform in such a manner.

There are people in every occupation at every level who are doing
their best to make it hard to take pride in what one does every day.
Maybe including people who work in French "drug labs", is my point
here.

OK, is it time to hop over and hope the fence holds, again? --D-y

I agree that Tom is perfectly capable of making very good arguments,
and frequently does until at the last second he gets sidetracked. I
think that just about everyone in this discussion, at this point, is
on the same track, to varying degrees. Tom has made up his mind that
Flandis is getting railroaded, I've had serious problems with the
system, as you have. Bill B, in my experience weighs everything
carefully and doesn't jump to conclusions. He's been willing to take
on the system, or the rest of us, as he saw the need to. Sandy is the
same way.
I don't think we'll ever know the whole truth about the inside
workings of the UCI, Wada, ASO, etc... We also really don't know what
the riders, and teams have done for sure either. I'd love for things
to break like they did in the IOC, Salt Lake scandal, or the skating
judging where we got inside info and it was confirmed how dirty things
are, and the indications were that was just the tip of the iceberg. I
don't think cycling, especially with the turf wars is free from dirty
tricks and people willing to do whatever it takes for power and wins.
Then again I'm Pollyanna
Bill C

In article , "Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com
wrote:

"billb" wrote in message
ups.com...

Tell is something Bill, while you were proud being an attorney did some
sorts group falsely accuse a leading athlete of cheating and then spend
more than a year of the most profitable period of that athlete's life
finagling about it?

Something tells me that as an attorney you hadn't a single clue about
what the hell you were really supposed to be doing. My guess is that Daniel
Webster was more in your line.

Ah, the Klassic Kunich lines: "Something tells me that you hadn't a single
clue..." and "My guess is..." So what tells you these things, the voices in your
head? As for your guesses, I'd suggest that you probably ought not play the lottery.

Every system, judicial or otherwise, must function well for the
majority of its applications. Legislation/design by anecdote leads
only to disorganization and chaos -- much like your grammar and
attempts at thought.

If I understand your sidestepping properly you seem to be saying that it's
perfectly OK to falsely accuse Floyd of cheating and to keep him from making
a living for what would have been the most profitable years of his career.

"If I understand..." Nice strawman, T.

--
tanx,
Howard

Faberge eggs are elegant but I prefer Faberge bacon.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

In article , "Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com
wrote:

"billb" wrote in message
ups.com...

My initial response was regarding your suggesting that organizations
be sued out of existence if FL were exonerated -- I did not take a
position on the merits of the FL situation.

I see. Apparently you agree that the UCI should be able to stop Valverde
from racing at the Worlds after his own national organization looked
carefully over the presented evidence WHICH WAS GATHERED IN THEIR OWN
COUNTRY and decided that the evidence wasn't complete enough to warrant any
movement against him.

You must think that ASO and WADA are perfectly justified in kicking out
teams for transgressions by a single rider outside of the team's control.

If the evidence presented to us as true in the Landis case is factual the
UCI should be up on criminal charges and not just sued out of existence.

Have you ever considered responding to what the other person has said, rather than
the things you've assigned him? I know, that makes it harder to have a "successful"
argument.

--
tanx,
Howard

Faberge eggs are elegant but I prefer Faberge bacon.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

On Sep 15, 5:54 pm, Bill C wrote:
I'd love for things
to break like they did in the IOC, Salt Lake scandal, or the skating
judging where we got inside info and it was confirmed how dirty things
are, and the indications were that was just the tip of the iceberg. I
don't think cycling, especially with the turf wars is free from dirty
tricks and people willing to do whatever it takes for power and wins.

Then again I'm Pollyanna

No, but Dick Pound was the Good Fairy. Selling fairytales. (We're
going to clean up the sport"). --D-y

yawn.