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Mike Vandeman & Ed Dolan



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 22nd 10, 12:44 AM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
Bob Berger[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 182
Default Mike Vandeman & Ed Dolan

In article ,
Mike Vandeman says...

On Apr 17, 5:16=A0pm, Bruce Jensen wrote:
On Apr 17, 5:00=A0pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:





On Apr 17, 11:31=A0am, Bruce Jensen wrote:


On Apr 16, 10:20=A0pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:


On Apr 15, 6:15=A0pm, "Jeff Strickland" wrote=

:
Mike wants to cover the landscape with No Entry signs, he does no=

t care how
one enters, he wants you to remain out. He believes in the deepes=

t part of
his soul that Public Lands should be off limits to all.


You have never come close to telling the truth, EVER. I have never
said any siuch thing. I have said that PART of every park should be
off-limits to all humans. That is the LEAST we can do for the
wildlife, who don't want us around.


...and that's not right either. =A0A human who no means no harm in th=

e
wild is no more a problem for wildlife than any other random animal.
I have spent quite a bit of time in the company of animals, and it's
pretty obvious to anyone who does this that it is fairly easy to walk
among them without disturbing them.


Bruce Jensen


There ARE animals that tolerate us to some extent, but most don't. And
even the tolerant ones have their limit. But tolerating our presence
is NOT proof that we aren't harming them. For example, desert sheep
can be driven away from essential foods by too much human presence.
Like most humans, you believe what you WANT to believe, without once
cracking a book to find out the truth. Ignoramuses like you are a dime
a dozen. Instead of puffing out your chest here, you should be in the
library trying to catch up with me....


God, what a load of Bull****. =A0Nobody is saying we should make the
wilderness a freeway for too much human presence, you cowardly
authoritarian extremist asshole. =A0I've been near sheep, both mountain
and desert, and they were eating just fine with me not far way. =A0We
left each other in peace, and nobody went hungry. =A0You don't know what
you're talking about. =A0Get out and look, and forget the god damned
books, Mr. Ivory-Tower-never-been-out-in-the-woods-in-my-life guy. =A0I
refuse to waste away in a library reading second and third hand what I
can be out seeing myself.

I may be a dime a dozen, but complete assholes like you are one in a
billion. =A0Thank God. =A0Stupid ****.

Bruce Jensen- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Your casual, uncalibrated observation doesn't count as science. DUH!


It is scientifically proven.


In science, nothing is proven.

In mathematics, we prove/disprove theorems/propositions. In science,
hypotheses/theories are subject to falsification, not proof.

Also, observations (even uncalibrated ones) do count in science; at least as
data points, as experimentalists will tell you. It's something you learn quite
quickly if you do field research or measurement.

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  #2  
Old April 22nd 10, 04:03 PM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
Bruce Jensen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 522
Default Mike Vandeman & Ed Dolan

On Apr 21, 4:44*pm, Bob Berger wrote:
In article ,
Mike Vandeman says...







On Apr 17, 5:16=A0pm, Bruce Jensen wrote:
On Apr 17, 5:00=A0pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:


On Apr 17, 11:31=A0am, Bruce Jensen wrote:


On Apr 16, 10:20=A0pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:


On Apr 15, 6:15=A0pm, "Jeff Strickland" wrote=

:
Mike wants to cover the landscape with No Entry signs, he does no=

t care how
one enters, he wants you to remain out. He believes in the deepes=

t part of
his soul that Public Lands should be off limits to all.


You have never come close to telling the truth, EVER. I have never
said any siuch thing. I have said that PART of every park should be
off-limits to all humans. That is the LEAST we can do for the
wildlife, who don't want us around.


...and that's not right either. =A0A human who no means no harm in th=

e
wild is no more a problem for wildlife than any other random animal.
I have spent quite a bit of time in the company of animals, and it's
pretty obvious to anyone who does this that it is fairly easy to walk
among them without disturbing them.


Bruce Jensen


There ARE animals that tolerate us to some extent, but most don't. And
even the tolerant ones have their limit. But tolerating our presence
is NOT proof that we aren't harming them. For example, desert sheep
can be driven away from essential foods by too much human presence.
Like most humans, you believe what you WANT to believe, without once
cracking a book to find out the truth. Ignoramuses like you are a dime
a dozen. Instead of puffing out your chest here, you should be in the
library trying to catch up with me....


God, what a load of Bull****. =A0Nobody is saying we should make the
wilderness a freeway for too much human presence, you cowardly
authoritarian extremist asshole. =A0I've been near sheep, both mountain
and desert, and they were eating just fine with me not far way. =A0We
left each other in peace, and nobody went hungry. =A0You don't know what
you're talking about. =A0Get out and look, and forget the god damned
books, Mr. Ivory-Tower-never-been-out-in-the-woods-in-my-life guy. =A0I
refuse to waste away in a library reading second and third hand what I
can be out seeing myself.


I may be a dime a dozen, but complete assholes like you are one in a
billion. =A0Thank God. =A0Stupid ****.


Bruce Jensen- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Your casual, uncalibrated observation doesn't count as science. DUH!
It is scientifically proven.


In science, nothing is proven.

In mathematics, we prove/disprove theorems/propositions. In science,
hypotheses/theories are subject to falsification, not proof.

Also, observations (even uncalibrated ones) do count in science; at least as
data points, as experimentalists will tell you. It's something you learn quite
quickly if you do field research or measurement.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Which Mike has never done.
 




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