Sidewalk bicycling?

rdclark wrote:
On Sep 14, 10:44 am, wrote:
I don't understand why all cycling websites blast sidewalk cycling as
the 'most unsafe' way to cycle? I have started to commute 12 miles to

1) Driveways.

2) Pedestrians.

3) The law.

And of course, there's:

Mailboxes
Tricycles
Toys
Hoses
Trash, out of and in
Trash cans
Shrubbery
Gates
Parked cars
Kids on bikes
Other sidewalk cyclists going the opposite directions
Signs
Irregular pavement
and my personal favorite: low-hanging tree branches.


Bill


------------------------------------------------
| We should invade their countries, kill their |
| leaders, and convert them to Christianity! |
| --Ann Coulter |
------------------------------------------------

On Sep 14, 6:02 pm, wrote:
rdclark wrote:
On Sep 14, 10:44 am, wrote:
I don't understand why all cycling websites blast sidewalk cycling as
the 'most unsafe' way to cycle? I have started to commute 12 miles to
1) Driveways.
2) Pedestrians.
3) The law.

And of course, there's:

Mailboxes
Tricycles
Toys
Hoses
Trash, out of and in
Trash cans
Shrubbery
Gates
Parked cars
Kids on bikes
Other sidewalk cyclists going the opposite directions
Signs
Irregular pavement
and my personal favorite: low-hanging tree branches.

Good list. For more detail on one item: The "irregular pavement"
often includes the edge of the sidewalk itself. It's often a sharp,
square dropoff into grass. If you weave and your front wheel drops
off that thing, you're almost certainly going down.

Overall, the safety record of sidewalk cycling is dismal. This has
been studied a few times by different researchers. IIRC, they've
found riding on sidewalks to be anywhere from about 2.5 to 13 times as
dangerous as riding on roads.

Those numbers are by memory. If anyone's really interested, I can try
to dig out the exact numbers with citations.

- Frank Krygowski

wrote:
Overall, the safety record of sidewalk cycling is dismal. This has
been studied a few times by different researchers. IIRC, they've
found riding on sidewalks to be anywhere from about 2.5 to 13 times as
dangerous as riding on roads.

Here are a few problems I have with these studies:

1) There are a lot more sidewalk cyclist than road cyclists so
naturally
accidents will be higher for them

2) Sidewalk cyclists are mostly kids while road cyclists are far more
mature and aware of their surroundings

3) Nearly all sidewalk accidents you can walk up from, but a road
accident has much more serious consequences. So I would take 13 wipe
outs on the sidewalk to being hit just once on the road !

What are some good websites that explain how to commute safely on the
road, perhaps I am doing something wrong that makes me perceive it as
unsafe in CERTAIN situations?

In article . com,
wrote:

rdclark wrote:
1) Driveways. Cars entering or leaving them aren't looking for
fast movers on the sidewalk. Sidewalk riding is dangerous because
a bike is so different from the expected traffic. The safest way to
ride is to always be predictable.

All you have to do is watch out for the cars backing out of the
driveway and you are fine. If a cyclist is not capable of this
minimal situal awareness, how are they safer on the road?

Actually, no.

The basic problem with sidewalk riding is that it works fine, AS LONG AS
YOU TRAVEL AT PEDESTRIAN SPEEDS.

That's about 0-10 km/h. Maybe 15 km/h if you're really careful. Hint: if
you were that careful, you probably wouldn't ride on the sidewalk.

Where you're going to run into problems (and the fact you haven't
realized it suggests how sidewalk riders get into trouble) is with
vehicles ENTERING driveways and turning (especially right) at
intersections. In each of these cases, the driver is expecting to look
for pedestrians within a very short distance of the road (typically,
they're thinking within a few feet of the roadway).

You're able to come from a long way out, if you're traveling at faster
than ped speeds. It's even worse than it seems, what with stopping
distances increasing with an exponent greater than 1. Or some such. I'm
a bit bizarre at maths, so the key is that doubling one's speed more
than doubles the stopping distance. Which means you not only show up
when you're least expected, you have less chance (than a ped) of coming
up short.

2) Pedestrians. Sidewalks are for them. They have a right to assume
there won't be any vehicles using a sidewalk (unless it's actually
a multi-use path). And they often make sudden unpredictable moves.

I bought a little horn for my bike and so far it works great. If I do
come accross that ipod blasting pedestrian, ill just make sure I pass
them slowly.

If someone does not have a horn, why would you put them on the road?

You're imposing on the safety of pedestrians for your own (false sense
of) safety. If you don't think there's a good reason for this, let me
tell you about an acquaintance who died in a cyclist-rollerblader
collision.

3) The law. Riding on the sidewalk is illegal in many places,
moreso the closer one gets to city centers, as a rule.

Makes sense in downtowns of big cities, but 99% of sidewalks hardly
have anyone walking/biking on them in the USA. ( Ok I just pulled
that number from the air, but I would not be surprised if it is
correct ).

Oh, who knows, really? But the key is that any one sidewalk rider is
probably a lot like the other sidewalk riders

Bicyclists are not pedestrians. They're vehicles. The rules of the
road apply.

If we can share the road with cars, why can't we share sidewalks with
pedestrians? My point is it is fine to bike on the sidewalk as long
as you ride as if you are invisible. Do we agree there?

Given that such a parameter should keep you at or below pedestrian
speeds, might I suggest stepping off your bicycle and walking?

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

In article . com,
wrote:

wrote:
Overall, the safety record of sidewalk cycling is dismal. This has
been studied a few times by different researchers. IIRC, they've
found riding on sidewalks to be anywhere from about 2.5 to 13 times as
dangerous as riding on roads.

Here are a few problems I have with these studies:

1) There are a lot more sidewalk cyclist than road cyclists so
naturally
accidents will be higher for them

That doesn't seem to be true:

http://www.bicyclinglife.com/Library/riskfactors.htm

A study of 314 bicycles accidents over 4 years in Palo Alto, CA, and a
study of (non-crashing) bicyclist characteristics in that same city.

Conclusions:

1543 adult bicyclists observed, 278 on sidewalk.

2) Sidewalk cyclists are mostly kids while road cyclists are far more
mature and aware of their surroundings

The proportion of sidewalk riders in this observation, when correlated
with the location of reported accidents, strongly suggests that
sidewalk-riding is about 2.4 times as likely to get you into an accident
with a car as riding on the road (with traffic; riding against traffic
is even more dangerous than sidewalk riding).

3) Nearly all sidewalk accidents you can walk up from, but a road
accident has much more serious consequences. So I would take 13 wipe
outs on the sidewalk to being hit just once on the road !

We're talking about car-bike crashes here. I'm not sure what scenarios
you're imagining where the car hits you more gently on the sidewalk.

What are some good websites that explain how to commute safely on the
road, perhaps I am doing something wrong that makes me perceive it as
unsafe in CERTAIN situations?

Well, choosing roads that correspond with one's current confidence level
on a bike is a good start.

From that report:

"Roadways are designed to eliminate blind conflicts at intersections and
driveways; side?walks are not. This causal analysis lends credi?bility
to the statistical results showing increased accident rates on
sidewalks. It suggests that sidewalk bicycling, especially against the
direc?tion of traffic, is dangerous in itself, not because of some
extraneous characteristic that happens to be more common among sidewalk
riders. It also suggests that bicycle safety can be improved by
providing clear sight lines at the intersection of sidewalks with
streets and drive?ways, and, in some cases, by prohibiting bicycling on
sidewalks or by restricting its direction through signs or ordinances."

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

wrote:
rdclark wrote:
1) Driveways. Cars entering or leaving them aren't looking for
fast movers on the sidewalk. Sidewalk riding is dangerous because
a bike is so different from the expected traffic. The safest way to
ride is to always be predictable.

All you have to do is watch out for the cars backing out of the
driveway and you are fine. If a cyclist is not capable of this
minimal situal awareness, how are they safer on the road?

No, that's not it. You also have to worry about drivers driving into
driveways, without looking for you on the sidewalk. This is especially
stupid if there are trees or parked cars blocking the driver's view of
you -- but the plain fact is that he/she would not be looking for you on
the sidewalk, because you belong on the road.


2) Pedestrians. Sidewalks are for them. They have a right to assume
there won't be any vehicles using a sidewalk (unless it's actually
a multi-use path). And they often make sudden unpredictable moves.

I bought a little horn for my bike and so far it works great.

I could do that with a car, or a motorcycle, as well, both of which come
with horns. That does not make it safe, nor legal.

Makes sense in downtowns of big cities, but 99% of sidewalks hardly
have anyone walking/biking on them in the USA. ( Ok I just pulled
that number from the air, but I would not be surprised if it is
correct ).

Just the occasional little kid, who will not expect you to come
barreling down the sidewalk. Don't you get it?


Bicyclists are not pedestrians. They're vehicles. The rules of the
road apply.

If we can share the road with cars, why can't we share sidewalks with
pedestrians? My point is it is fine to bike on the sidewalk as long
as you ride as if you are invisible. Do we agree there?

Nope.



--

David L. Johnson

"Business!" cried the Ghost. "Mankind was my business. The common
welfare was my business; charity, mercy, forbearance, and benevolence,
were, all, my business. The dealings of my trade were but a drop of
water in the comprehensive ocean of my business!"
--Dickens, "A Christmas Carol"

Biker52 wrote:


I don't know of any cyclists that haven't used the sidewalk to ride,
though most only do it (where safe) for a few meters.

This guy isn't talking about a few meters.

I've been at some intersections that were just so weird that it was
better to cross the street and ride (uphill) on the opposite side of
the street sidewalk so I can go left. Believe me, I do -not- like
doing that, but it happens. Sometimes, I'll turn right and then go
make a safe U-Turn, and come through the problem intersection from 90
degrees. Ever had to do that?

Sure, and I have also gotten off my bike and walked across a busy
street. You do what is necessary. But riding along, for several
blocks, on a sidewalk is not necessary, and not safe.

I've also ridden in areas where they've modified the sidewalks (which
are very wide) and have them listed as -part- of the bike route, with
arrows and lines painted on the sidewalk.

That was mentioned earlier as an exception. That is when a sidewalk is
not a sidewalk, but a MUP.

--

David L. Johnson

"Business!" cried the Ghost. "Mankind was my business. The common
welfare was my business; charity, mercy, forbearance, and benevolence,
were, all, my business. The dealings of my trade were but a drop of
water in the comprehensive ocean of my business!"
--Dickens, "A Christmas Carol"

John Thompson wrote:

Or, in a similar vein: why not expect cars to safely share the road with
bicycles and pedestrians? Why is it the non-motorized transportation
that get treated as second class?

True enough, but you're ****in' upwind with that idea. People think
they are minor dictators when they get behind the wheel. Their rights
are so much more important than the rights of anyone else. And the rest
of us let them get away with it. Listen to what happens when a car
turns onto the road. Everyone grabs their kids and dogs, and runs for
cover. A car is coming! Oh, my god! Run for your life! I am so tired
of that.

--

David L. Johnson

"Business!" cried the Ghost. "Mankind was my business. The common
welfare was my business; charity, mercy, forbearance, and benevolence,
were, all, my business. The dealings of my trade were but a drop of
water in the comprehensive ocean of my business!"
--Dickens, "A Christmas Carol"

wrote:

Here are a few problems I have with these studies:

1) There are a lot more sidewalk cyclist than road cyclists so
naturally
accidents will be higher for them

What? No.

2) Sidewalk cyclists are mostly kids while road cyclists are far more
mature and aware of their surroundings

Kids under 12 on kids' bikes are not what we are talking about.


3) Nearly all sidewalk accidents you can walk up from,

Maybe the pedestrian you hit won't, or, if it's a car that is turning
right and hits you, maybe not.

accident has much more serious consequences. So I would take 13 wipe
outs on the sidewalk to being hit just once on the road !

Don't over-dramatize. You presume that sidewalk accidents are minor,
but road accidents are major. Not necessarily the case. Not counting
falls due to road surface problems, I can think of 3 accidents with cars
I've had on the road (while riding). None were major. None on the
sidewalk, seeing as how I don't ride there (beyond a few meters
occasionally while coming to a shop or some such thing).

What are some good websites that explain how to commute safely on the
road, perhaps I am doing something wrong that makes me perceive it as
unsafe in CERTAIN situations?

I would suggest that, yes, you are. Granted, there are roads that are
unsafe to ride on. Most of those would be even more unsafe to ride next
to on a sidewalk. Those would be busy roads, and there would be
driveways and intersections.

--

David L. Johnson

"Business!" cried the Ghost. "Mankind was my business. The common
welfare was my business; charity, mercy, forbearance, and benevolence,
were, all, my business. The dealings of my trade were but a drop of
water in the comprehensive ocean of my business!"
--Dickens, "A Christmas Carol"

It's less safe for pedestrians, who now have to contend with a much
faster and less manuverable (relative to another pedestrian) bicycle on
a narrow path since sidewalks are made for foot traffic, not vehicles.

This makes riding on the sidewalk illegal in most states anyway. You
can, of course WALK your bike on the sidewalk

That's my 2¢...

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