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Self Sealing Inner Tube: Do They Work ?



 
 
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  #11  
Old April 17th 11, 03:20 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech
Peter Cole[_2_]
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Posts: 4,572
Default Self Sealing Inner Tube: Do They Work ?

On 4/17/2011 9:54 AM, David Scheidt wrote:
In rec.bicycles.tech Peter wrote:
:On 4/17/2011 5:01 AM, Tosspot wrote:
: On 17/04/11 09:27, Blue Heeler wrote:
:
: snip
:
: Cost to treat 4 tubes - about $26 made up of $20 green slime sealant,
: $2 scalpel $4 for 8 large tube patches. I guess there is also some glue
: in there too, but I buy my patch glue in bulk and still working my way
: through the 100 tubes I bought 5 years ago.
:
: Doesn't that stuff go off after a while? I tend to 'collect' glue tubes
: and have had a couple of *unopened* ones reveal themselves to be a solid
: rubbery block.
:
: Although, thinking about it, I've had some 5 year old ones be fine on
: first opening. Maybe it's in the manufacturing process.

:The problem is that the tubes are often not gas-tight. Since they
unopened) are sealed at the screw top end, the only place for them to
ass gas is at the bottom crimped end. What I do, even with new,
:unopened ones, is make another fold at the crimp. That seems to help. I
:also carry 2 glue tubes in my patch kit. In a gas-tight container the
:glue will last indefinitely.

You're repeating Jobst's 'this is how they did things in the dark
ages' spiel. Modern cement tubes are heat crimped. They're normally a
multi-layer sandwhich. It's not perfectly gas impermable, and some
are just defective, so there is a shelf life.


Perhaps, but my experience has been that some even recently purchased
tubes dry out for whatever reason. There's usually enough slack to
double over the tube at the crimp. I haven't had one dry out after doing
that, but I haven't exhaustively tested, either. When still-sealed tubes
dry out, it's obvious that it's the crimp that's at fault, either by
design or manufacture, doubling it up can only help.


For those who patch at the work bench, cement is available in larger
containers. An 8 oz jar with a brush in the lid costs a few bucks,
and lasts a long time[1], as ong as the cap is screwed on after use. If
it dries out, the usual cause is the solvent has evaporated; it can be
thinned with hexane. If it's over heated, it can vulcanize itself
into a blob.

[1] the tubes in a patch kit are 5 grams, so about 50 of them.


Unlike Jobst, I don't patch at the bench. I just don't have enough
flats. I've had perfectly good luck just patching on the trail/roadside,
which is my usual practice, weather and conditions permitting. I always
carry an extra tube or two and a patch kit with 2 tubes of cement. The
belt and suspenders approach takes little extra effort. I've found that
if I don't patch a flat immediately, I'll forget about it only to
rediscover it when my next one happens and the "good tube" happens to be
no so good. I haven't had Jobst's problems with failures of freshly
patched tubes, I just patch 'em and ride 'em.
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  #12  
Old April 17th 11, 03:55 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech
kolldata
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Posts: 2,836
Default Self Sealing Inner Tube: Do They Work ?

A Conti touring or commuting tire with a Specialized slime tube works
AAA Conti adds stipulate what each tire is for-they are diffferent
golf clubs for different rides/surfaces. Can't get TT grip with a
hardboiled commuter.
Going down a new Fed intercoastal bridge at 35 mph (with wind) the
front tire took a middle tread hit from a ring shanked roofing nail
with top washer, Nail went straight thru to rim.
clack clack clack so I stopped next to traffic, pulled the nail out,
and proceeded to the appt destination and back maybe uh 27 miles then
changed the tube.
if ur really desperate, a lioner is added but the liner erodes the
tube at liner overlap requiring frequent rotation for max mileage.
If you buy an inexpensive slime tube then ura gonna get an.....
  #13  
Old April 17th 11, 04:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech
David Scheidt
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Posts: 1,268
Default Self Sealing Inner Tube: Do They Work ?

In rec.bicycles.tech Peter Cole wrote:
:On 4/17/2011 9:54 AM, David Scheidt wrote:
: In rec.bicycles.tech Peter wrote:
: :On 4/17/2011 5:01 AM, Tosspot wrote:
: : On 17/04/11 09:27, Blue Heeler wrote:
: :
: : snip
: :
: : Cost to treat 4 tubes - about $26 made up of $20 green slime sealant,
: : $2 scalpel $4 for 8 large tube patches. I guess there is also some glue
: : in there too, but I buy my patch glue in bulk and still working my way
: : through the 100 tubes I bought 5 years ago.
: :
: : Doesn't that stuff go off after a while? I tend to 'collect' glue tubes
: : and have had a couple of *unopened* ones reveal themselves to be a solid
: : rubbery block.
: :
: : Although, thinking about it, I've had some 5 year old ones be fine on
: : first opening. Maybe it's in the manufacturing process.
:
: :The problem is that the tubes are often not gas-tight. Since they
: unopened) are sealed at the screw top end, the only place for them to
: ass gas is at the bottom crimped end. What I do, even with new,
: :unopened ones, is make another fold at the crimp. That seems to help. I
: :also carry 2 glue tubes in my patch kit. In a gas-tight container the
: :glue will last indefinitely.
:
: You're repeating Jobst's 'this is how they did things in the dark
: ages' spiel. Modern cement tubes are heat crimped. They're normally a
: multi-layer sandwhich. It's not perfectly gas impermable, and some
: are just defective, so there is a shelf life.

:Perhaps, but my experience has been that some even recently purchased
:tubes dry out for whatever reason. There's usually enough slack to
:double over the tube at the crimp. I haven't had one dry out after doing
:that, but I haven't exhaustively tested, either. When still-sealed tubes
:dry out, it's obvious that it's the crimp that's at fault, either by
:design or manufacture, doubling it up can only help.


: For those who patch at the work bench, cement is available in larger
: containers. An 8 oz jar with a brush in the lid costs a few bucks,
: and lasts a long time[1], as ong as the cap is screwed on after use. If
: it dries out, the usual cause is the solvent has evaporated; it can be
: thinned with hexane. If it's over heated, it can vulcanize itself
: into a blob.
:
: [1] the tubes in a patch kit are 5 grams, so about 50 of them.
:

:Unlike Jobst, I don't patch at the bench. I just don't have enough
:flats. I've had perfectly good luck just patching on the trail/roadside,
:which is my usual practice, weather and conditions permitting. I always

My usual practice is to carry a spare tube and a patch kit. If I flat
(which happens very rarely around here), i put the spare tube in. The
tube with a hole doesn't go back in the saddle bag, it's strapped to
the rack. That's a clue I need to fix it, which I do prety much
immediately. I think that I've only got one spare tube at the moment,
so I don't let them pile up. I only get flats in the rain, so
patching on the roadside is no fun.

:carry an extra tube or two and a patch kit with 2 tubes of cement. The
:belt and suspenders approach takes little extra effort. I've found that
:if I don't patch a flat immediately, I'll forget about it only to
:rediscover it when my next one happens and the "good tube" happens to be
:no so good. I haven't had Jobst's problems with failures of freshly
atched tubes, I just patch 'em and ride 'em.

JObst's failures are from refusing to properly use cement, and a
refusal to admit there are things he doesn't know anything about.
It really does need to dry before the patch is put on.

--
sig 6
  #14  
Old April 17th 11, 08:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech
Blue Heeler[_2_]
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Posts: 38
Default Self Sealing Inner Tube: Do They Work ?

Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote:

On 4/17/2011 3:27 AM, Blue Heeler wrote:
[...]
My commute is 25km from one of the northern beach suburbs of Cairns,
Australia.


The main problem is that there are a large number of fools
hereabouts who throw glass (mostly beer bottles) out of car
windows, secondary problems is that the area is one of rapid growth
which means lots of things like screws, nails metal off-cuts
etc.[...]


Do you have a bottle deposit law?


We do not.
Here in the US, broken glass is
much less of a problem in states that require retailers to offer
between $0.05 and $0.15 for each empty glass beverage bottle (mostly
beer bottles) returned, compared to states with no deposit law.


Other States in Australia have both glass and plastic bottle deposit
and have a consequent much lower litter problem.



--

  #15  
Old April 17th 11, 09:27 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech
Michael Press
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Posts: 9,202
Default Self Sealing Inner Tube: Do They Work ?

In article ,
David Scheidt wrote:

JObst's failures are from refusing to properly use cement, and a
refusal to admit there are things he doesn't know anything about.
It really does need to dry before the patch is put on.


No, it does not. The glue is quite sloppy when
I put on the patch. I have a few tubes in rotation with
about three dozen patches currently. No patch
leaks in memory.

--
Michael Press
  #16  
Old April 18th 11, 12:06 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech
Chalo
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Posts: 4,943
Default Self Sealing Inner Tube: Do They Work ?

T[]m Sherm/\n wrote:

Bob wrote:

Do those "self-sealing" inner tubes work ?


Some swear by them, other swear at them.

When putting on new tubes, worth going to the trouble to get them ?

Any thoughts on would be appreciated.


Do you live in an area with lots of puncture vine thorns, broken glass,
etc where you will be riding? *Otherwise, flats are not that common,
assuming that you are not using racing tires with relatively thin and
fragile casings and tread.


The basic problem with Slime and its analogues is that such substances
treat an air valve as a puncture. They also sometimes treat pump
heads as punctures. And they make patching much more difficult,
bothersome, and unreliable. It often surprises me how much nastiness
and annoyance people will tolerate to avoid a relatively small amount
of puncture repair, when it really isn't that big a deal. (I don't
live in goathead country, but I do get surprised by Slime in a lot of
my customers' tires.)

If you use a puncture-resistant tire that weighs as much extra as the
amount of Slime most puncture-phobics use, you probably won't be
getting punctures anyway.

Chalo
  #17  
Old April 19th 11, 03:30 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech
JFern
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Posts: 17
Default Self Sealing Inner Tube: Do They Work ?

On Apr 17, 2:27*am, "Blue Heeler" wrote:
Tm Shermn _ wrote:
On 4/11/2011 11:20 AM, Bob wrote:
Hello,


Do those "self-sealing" inner tubes work ?


Some swear by them, other swear at them.


When putting on new tubes, worth going to the trouble to get them ?


Any thoughts on would be appreciated.


Thanks,
Bob


Do you live in an area with lots of puncture vine thorns, broken
glass, etc where you will be riding? *Otherwise, flats are not that
common, assuming that you are not using racing tires with relatively
thin and fragile casings and tread.


I have been on a journey the past few years to try and minimise the
number of times I am stopped by punctured/slashed tyres.

My commute is 25km from one of the northern beach suburbs of Cairns,
Australia.

The main problem is *that there are a large number of fools hereabouts
who throw glass (mostly beer bottles) out of car windows, secondary
problems is that the area is one of rapid growth which means lots of
things like screws, nails metal off-cuts etc.

When I first started riding to and from work I was averaging a couple
of punctures a week, and losing about one tyre a month to irretrievable
slashes from various sources. I should add that my homeward run is
usually in the dark. In addition to playing with tyres I have also been
experimenting with lighting systems, but I digress.

After trying myriad brands of tyres, both cheap and expensive I
discovered Schwalbe Stelvio + in 2008 and suddenly my puncture rates
dropped to about 1 per month. The Stelvio + model was discontinued and
replaced by the Durano plus in 2009, I have happily continued to have a
very low puncture rate with these tyres, although in the past year I
have had two of them slashed beyond practical repair.

Good though the Duranos are, I still occasionally suffer a puncture
from thin metal, wire, nails or screws - frequently the puncture
"agent" does not stay in the tyre and I am unable to say for certain
what the cause is.

This made me start thinking about the various sealants you can put in
car tyres to prevent deflation in similar circumstances.

Now you can't put "green slime" (a catch-all covering tyre sealants as
they generally tend to be a slimy green colour for some reason) in past
a Presta valve, I tried and it won't work. Period.

A search of the net found some brave souls were cutting the pin in the
Presta, putting the sealant in, and then carefully feeding the pin back
into the valve. I tried this on a damaged tube and bluntly I lack the
dexterity required.

Another solution beckoned. Why not, I thought, simply cut the tube
somewhere close to the valve, a slit just large enough to feed in the
nozzle from the green slime bottle, and then once the requisite amount
of slime has been added simply put a normal patch on the tube.

A $2 disposable scalpel from the local chemist and a $20 bottle of
green slime (sufficient to "treat" 4 bicycle tyres according to the
label) and a couple of larger than normal glue on patches were obtained.

A small slit allowed the nozzle to carefully squirt in the slime, I
then cut the "truck tube" patches I'd bought down just a bit and
patched the slit.

I've now been riding on two tubes treated as above for the past week.
On Friday morning I noticed that the front was down a little in
pressure, but did nothing at the time other than pump it back up to
120psi. Today I pulled the tyre off and found 2 small spots of "green
chalk" on the tube that appear to be sealed up holes. At this stage I'm
counting the experiment a provisional success, if I got the whole month
with no stoppage causing punctures I'll be very happy indeed.

Cost to treat 4 tubes - about $26 made up of $20 green slime sealant,
$2 scalpel $4 for 8 large tube patches. I guess there is also some glue
in there too, but I buy my patch glue in bulk and still working my way
through the 100 tubes I bought 5 years ago.

--


I live and ride along the RIo Grande in New Mexico, Land of the
Goathead. I have never - ever - ridden in such a flat-prone place. If
you ride here without some sort of flat protection, you'll be on your
rims within minutes.
Stan's NoFlat is the hands-down winner among small puncture sealants.
Seals much more quickly and solidly than Slime or its clones - and you
need less of it in your tubes. Far lighter than thick tubes or anti-
puncture belts. I can't recommend it enough.
Casing ruptures and slashes have more to do with the tire itself -
rubber compound and casing material. Continental Vectran and
Specialized Armadillo materials are supposed to protect the casing
from ruptures. Results vary.
  #18  
Old April 19th 11, 03:44 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech
David Scheidt
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Posts: 1,268
Default Self Sealing Inner Tube: Do They Work ?

In rec.bicycles.tech Blue Heeler wrote:

:Now you can't put "green slime" (a catch-all covering tyre sealants as
:they generally tend to be a slimy green colour for some reason) in past
:a Presta valve, I tried and it won't work. Period.

:A search of the net found some brave souls were cutting the pin in the
:Presta, putting the sealant in, and then carefully feeding the pin back
:into the valve. I tried this on a damaged tube and bluntly I lack the
:dexterity required.

Presta valves that have a removable pin are available. much easeir.


--
What's the rule on that?
  #19  
Old April 19th 11, 05:45 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech
kolldata
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Posts: 2,836
Default Self Sealing Inner Tube: Do They Work ?

Is Stan's cleanable then patch able ?

Vectran is polyester. Handles good. Low rolling resistance see tube
erpsion from liners.
Goatheads ? I bought kevlar liners but so far haven't had a chance to
test for goatheads.Maybe next week.

Have you taken apart a circumferentially rubber banded tire ? I don't
know whoi what there but rode on 2-3: no flats.

And in doubt is efficacy of a circum rubber belt vs a thorn proof
tube. Where's that cripple Brandt ?



  #20  
Old April 19th 11, 05:55 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech
kolldata
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Posts: 2,836
Default Self Sealing Inner Tube: Do They Work ?

On Apr 17, 6:06*pm, Chalo wrote:
T[]m Sherm/\n wrote:

Bob wrote:


Do those "self-sealing" inner tubes work ?


Some swear by them, other swear at them.


When putting on new tubes, worth going to the trouble to get them ?


Any thoughts on would be appreciated.


Do you live in an area with lots of puncture vine thorns, broken glass,
etc where you will be riding? *Otherwise, flats are not that common,
assuming that you are not using racing tires with relatively thin and
fragile casings and tread.


The basic problem with Slime and its analogues is that such substances
treat an air valve as a puncture. *They also sometimes treat pump
heads as punctures. *And they make patching much more difficult,
bothersome, and unreliable. *It often surprises me how much nastiness
and annoyance people will tolerate to avoid a relatively small amount
of puncture repair, when it really isn't that big a deal. *(I don't
live in goathead country, but I do get surprised by Slime in a lot of
my customers' tires.)

If you use a puncture-resistant tire that weighs as much extra as the
amount of Slime most puncture-phobics use, you probably won't be
getting punctures anyway.

Chalo- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


ADVISE de Cus-tombers to over to NOT use a cycle pump but berak down
and get thi butt over uh to uh uh you know for a $10 barrel foot pump
with GSTQ a lock on head. Pump with thine hands not thine feet.
 




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