Shrewd maketing by Shimano -- too bad for cyclists.

Bob Wheeler

wrote in part:


I hung up my bike in 1970 after having been a cyclist for over 30 years.
Recently, I pulled some off their hangers, dusted them off and climbed
aboard. It's as much fun as it ever was.

---snip---

Welcome back.

the new shifting
mechanisms are nice and more precise than those that I have on my bikes,
but the improvement is not earth shattering. What shocked me, however,
was the fact that, to add these to one of my bikes, in addition to the
crankset and freewheel, I would have to replace the bottom bracket,
rebuild the rear wheel, and probably replace the deraillers. Moreover,
nothing was compatible. I can't really fault manufacturer's for doing
things differently from their competitors, but apparently there is no
backward compatibility within a manufacturer's product line. An upgrade
seems as costly and time consuming as a new build. What a marketer's
dream. Make a cosmetic change, and sell a new group.

Indexed shifting versus friction shifting is about as "cosmetic" a change on a
bicycle as replacing manual transmissions with automatic transmissions is on
the family sedan. It requires engineering changes, changes that make retrofits
an expensive proposition. To draw an automotive analogy- you may neither need
nor want a new car but that wouldn't justify a conclusion that the expense of
installing an auto trans in a 30+ year old manual trans car is the result of a
manufacturer's "con job".

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Shimano seems to have conned the world.

There's a saying that Shimano is the Microsoft of bikes. I don't
think it's intended as a compliment to either company.

Jeremy Parker

Shimano seems to have conned the world. Of course the new shifting
mechanisms are nice and more precise than those that I have on my
bikes,
but the improvement is not earth shattering. What shocked me, however,
was the fact that, to add these to one of my bikes, in addition to the
crankset and freewheel, I would have to replace the bottom bracket,
rebuild the rear wheel, and probably replace the deraillers. Moreover,
nothing was compatible.

I agree, it all feels like a scam to me too.

Last week the rear wheel on my mountain bike became unusable -- too much
abuse over the years, probably a problem with the bearings. It was
already bent out of shape, so I decided to buy a new wheel.

Should be pretty easy right? Maybe a $50 problem, quick job?

I went to the bike store and bought a cheap new wheel for about $50.
Brought it home and discovered that the cassette from my previous wheel
could not be installed on this new wheel (whole new cassette type)! Took
it back to the store hoping they could swap the new wheel I bought for
one that is compatible with the older style freewheel (older meaning like
2 years ago).

At this point, I'm pretty sure the store -- Olympia Cycle and Ski, on
Pembina in Winnipeg -- decided they could screw me out of some more cash.
They never directly answered my question, "do you have a wheel in stock
that I can use with my existing cassette?" Instead I ended up buying one
of the newer style cassettes to use on the new wheel. Another $30.

Then I install the new freewheel, it works fine... BUT of course my old
chain and the rear cogs were a match, with slight stretching over time.
The teeth didn't mesh properly, requiring a new chain -- another $20.
This I definitely did not buy from the same store, they can go to hell.

So a simple wheel change should have cost $50, but due to arbitrary
changes of common mountain bike parts within a 2 year time frame cost me
over $100 US with taxes as well as plenty of time, as I do the
installations myself to save money. It's a scam.

--
Jem Berkes
http://www.sysdesign.ca/

Thu, 29 Jul 2004 23:36:50 GMT,
, Jem Berkes
wrote:

The teeth didn't mesh properly, requiring a new chain -- another $20.
This I definitely did not buy from the same store, they can go to hell.

The chain on my bike gets replaced about twice in a year.
A cassette lasts about three chains.
That stuff wears out with use. They didn't screw you.
You might be able to get cheaper (~$12 CDN) chain elsewhere though.
--
zk

The teeth didn't mesh properly, requiring a new chain -- another $20.
This I definitely did not buy from the same store, they can go to hell.

The chain on my bike gets replaced about twice in a year.
A cassette lasts about three chains.
That stuff wears out with use. They didn't screw you.
You might be able to get cheaper (~$12 CDN) chain elsewhere though.

Well but the store could have sold me a wheel which fit my existing
cassette, which means I definitely would not have needed a new cassette or
chain, and saved me $50 of extra hassle.

--
Jem Berkes
http://www.sysdesign.ca/

On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 12:14:31 -0400, Bob Wheeler wrote:

That should have been 1980, not 1970 -- I'm not quite that old.

I don't think the comparison with 8-track is fair. I have tried the new
stuff. It's better in some ways, but not in all. I have a Paramount that
weighs 21 lb.. I doubt that changing a few components will shave much
off that. I have a touring bike with a low gear of 23 inches, and a nice
set of even shifts up to a top gear of 92 inches.

The shifting on the new stuff is crisp, but as I said not earth
shattering. It hardly justifies a complete remake. I have no idea about
the amount of tinkering that is required to keep these things running.
It would be nice if they were maintenance free, but I suspect not.


So if you want to keep that Paramount running in comparable-to-original
condition, you need to lay hands on a supply of 5 or 6-speed freewheels,
as appropriate. Sheldon Brown (Harris Cycles -
http://sheldonbrown.com/harris) stocks them. You can basically buy
everything else the bike might need as a replacement part. Chains,
cables, brake blocks, tires, bearings -- current production stuff is
available for all of that. You have a classic, enjoy it in its original
condition.