#11
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chain stress
On Jun 15, 7:27 am, "recycled" wrote:
Is there any deleterious effect on a chain if you start from a dead stop in a high gear such that you are putting a large strain on the chain and cog wheels, chain rings and crank arms for that matter? Serious question. It should cause no problem. The tension in the chain isn't hard to calculate. Your crank arm has a radius of about 170mm. In "high gear," your chainring has a radius of about 100 mm. So to find chain tension in high gear, multiply your pedal force by 175/100. (The choice of rear cog doesn't matter.) And your pedal force is probably about equal to your weight in that situation. If you weigh 175 pounds, that's a chain tension of 306 lbs. It's worse when your chain's on a small front cog. A triple crank's small cog might have a radius of 50mm, so if you're standing hard on the pedal in that gear, you get about twice the chain tension: 612 lbs. And my chain's stood up to that situation thousands of times. Has anyone snapped a chain in this manner? I once broke a chain mountain biking, but never road riding. I was trying to grind past a sudden, steep obstacle and was in the process of changing to the smallest front cog. I imagine the bending & twisting of the chain during the shift is what tore the side plate off the pin. I've had to start in a high gear many, many times (and always kicked myself for forgetting to "pre-shift"). But it's never, ever harmed my chain. Don't worry. - Frank Krygowski |
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#12
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chain stress
On Jun 15, 6:27 am, "recycled" wrote:
Is there any deleterious effect on a chain if you start from a dead stop in a high gear such that you are putting a large strain on the chain and cog wheels, chain rings and crank arms for that matter? Serious question. Has anyone snapped a chain in this manner? I can't believe that a bicycle chain can be broken by the weight of a human & a bicycle, regardless of the gearing. |
#14
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chain stress
DennisTheBald wrote:
On Jun 15, 6:27 am, "recycled" wrote: Is there any deleterious effect on a chain if you start from a dead stop in a high gear such that you are putting a large strain on the chain and cog wheels, chain rings and crank arms for that matter? Serious question. Has anyone snapped a chain in this manner? I can't believe that a bicycle chain can be broken by the weight of a human & a bicycle, regardless of the gearing. I had two SRAM PC-48 chains break at the side plates. I think its just cheap manufacturing for that model of chain. I now use PC-68s. Probably most likely chain failure is because the pin wasn't properly installed. Chains for the most part don't break, no matter how much torque you are able to apply to it. I stay away from "pinned" chains now too. The master link is much superior IMHO. SMH |
#15
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chain stress
Stephen Harding wrote:
DennisTheBald wrote: I can't believe that a bicycle chain can be broken by the weight of a human & a bicycle, regardless of the gearing. I had two SRAM PC-48 chains break at the side plates. I think its just cheap manufacturing for that model of chain. I now use PC-68s. Probably most likely chain failure is because the pin wasn't properly installed. Chains for the most part don't break, no matter how much torque you are able to apply to it. I stay away from "pinned" chains now too. The master link is much superior IMHO. I've had god luck with the PC-48, never breaking one (out of perhaps a dozen) despite my weight (230), long cranks, low gear (20T on MTB) and often towing ~100lb trailers. I typically never repin a chain any more, no need to with quick links, but when I did, I found it was a pretty fussy job, you have to have a good tool and be very careful to get exactly the right amount of pin protruding on both sides of the late. |
#16
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chain stress
Peter Cole wrote:
Stephen Harding wrote: I had two SRAM PC-48 chains break at the side plates. I think its just cheap manufacturing for that model of chain. I now use PC-68s. Probably most likely chain failure is because the pin wasn't properly installed. Chains for the most part don't break, no matter how much torque you are able to apply to it. I stay away from "pinned" chains now too. The master link is much superior IMHO. I've had god luck with the PC-48, never breaking one (out of perhaps a dozen) despite my weight (230), long cranks, low gear (20T on MTB) and often towing ~100lb trailers. I typically never repin a chain any more, no need to with quick links, but when I did, I found it was a pretty fussy job, you have to have a good tool and be very careful to get exactly the right amount of pin protruding on both sides of the late. I used the PC-48s for years with no problems. The failures were quite recent so I'm wondering if their manufacture has changed for the worse? When buying a new chain, the LBS guy told me he won't sell the PC-48 any more because they've had too many problems with them. Just "too cheaply made" whatever that means. At any rate, the PC-68s are still going good and they aren't terribly more expensive. SMH |
#17
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chain stress
Serious question, serious answer...
No F.N. way that the weight of a bicycle & the bicyclist breaks a chain, not even if they were suspended by that chain and then bounced. You and your horse together can not produce enough torque to break that chain; big gear, little gear - no way, no how. Having a chain come apart is quite another matter altogether tho, you can probably take one apart without even breathing hard. Should one slip apart while you're riding trying to put it back together by the side of the road with nothing but a pair of pliers will make you sweat and curse. If you fear a chain failure and wish to mitigate that situation you might slip a powerlink (r) into your purse. http://www.rei.com/product/751366 |
#18
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chain stress
I'm having a little trouble following you here, did the side plates
break or did the pins slip out of the side plate? One of those things seems quite believable and the other completely not. I would even entertain that the plastic replacement pins that Shimano provides to put a chain back together with could break...(never seen it happen but I didn't like the idea and refused to use them for any length of time myself) Why would one put plastic bits in their drive chain...crack, either smoking it or having one's head up it? Then again, the pin is pretty much just to hold the inner and outer side plates together and the real stress should be on the flanges of the side plates themselves, not the pin... but I don't trust plastic pins on my chain. I wouldn't use these: http://www.rei.com/product/544076 I maintain that the gear ratio used when starting from a stop has no bearing on the life of the chain, maintenance on the other hand does. I further assert that side plates don't stretch either and that the actual cause of what people tend to call 'chain stretch' is actually the side plates wearing into the pins. I'd like to take credit for that idea, but I'm pretty certain I heard it from Sheldon Brown first. I have personally confirmed it by careful disassembly, inspection, and measurement of a 'stretched' chain. There is certainly some evidence to support the idea that repeatedly rubbing two pieces of metal against each other will cause a loss of mass in one or both pieces and this seems to be what has happened rather than the side plates becoming elongated. Would flipping your chain around say every 20k miles extend its life? You would be wearing down the other side of the pin and wallowing out the other side of the side plate hole. Rotating your chain will have more of a bearing on its usable life span than not shifting to low before stopping will. I had two SRAM PC-48 chains break at the side plates. I think its just cheap manufacturing for that model of chain. I now use PC-68s. Probably most likely chain failure is because the pin wasn't properly installed. Chains for the most part don't break, no matter how much torque you are able to apply to it. I stay away from "pinned" chains now too. The master link is much superior IMHO. SMH |
#19
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chain stress
DennisTheBald wrote, On 6/18/2008 1:55 PM:
snip Would flipping your chain around say every 20k miles extend its life? You would be wearing down the other side of the pin and wallowing out the other side of the side plate hole. Rotating your chain will have more of a bearing on its usable life span than not shifting to low before stopping will. 20,000 is a lot of miles for a bicycle chain! Are you sure that you didn't mean to say 2k miles? -- Paul D Oosterhout I work for SAIC (but I don't speak for SAIC) |
#20
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chain stress
"DennisTheBald" wrote in message ... Serious question, serious answer... No F.N. way that the weight of a bicycle & the bicyclist breaks a chain, not even if they were suspended by that chain and then bounced. You and your horse together can not produce enough torque to break that chain; big gear, little gear - no way, no how. Ok. I assumed the chain might well be the... errr... weakest link. Let me rephrase: What component would be the most stressed from a standing start in a high gear? Having a chain come apart is quite another matter altogether tho, you can probably take one apart without even breathing hard. Should one slip apart while you're riding trying to put it back together by the side of the road with nothing but a pair of pliers will make you sweat and curse. If you fear a chain failure and wish to mitigate that situation you might slip a powerlink (r) into your purse. I don't fear it. Just something I wondered about. |
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