Carbo loading before a race?

DRS wrote:
:: "curt" wrote in message
::
::: I have been low carbing for a while to lose a few, but now I do eat
::: carbs before I take rides over 30 miles. I find if I don't I hit a
::: wall and did get a bit dizzy once. That was enough of that. I find
::: for me YMMV, that if I eat a balanced meal with good carbs the night
::: before and during the ride eat a banana or some granola or
::: something, I feel fine. If I am just going to ride like 25 miles I
::: don't pay attention to what I eat much, just make sure I drink
::: enough water. I think this would be different for everyone. I
::: have heard people starting to carbo load 3-4 days in advance. I am
::: not sure why because it takes something like 24 hours for you to
::: digest food you eat +-.
::
:: True carb loading is basically for powerlifters who want that 101%
:: lift on competition day. Essentially you go low carb a week or so
:: before the competition and lift like crazy to deplete your muscle
:: glycogen. Of course, at this point you feel like **** and are as
:: weak as a kitten because you've got no energy, but then a couple of
:: days before the competition you go stupid on the carbs and if you
:: time it right you can achieve a temporary overloading of muscle
:: glycogen right on competition day. However, it's of sod all benefit
:: for endurance activities like cycling. Going stupid on the carbs
:: the night before a race or whatever is just building up your fat
:: reserves but you don't notice that because you work it off the next
:: day.

Actually, for cycling, going stupid on the carb like a PL will just get you
water logged and make you heavier for your ride (assuming you were LCing
before hand). IMO, it is better to consume carbs right before and during
your ride, you can you burn them as they land and avoid water logging.

"jb" wrote in message ...
Anyone here do this? What exactly do you eat, and when??

I'm a bit surprised at the replies. Let me recommend a book:

Sports Nutrition for Endurance Athletes by Monique Ryan

published by Velo Press and available at Amazon, etc.

The book is also very good at describing what is good nutrition in general.

Tom

On Thu, 13 May 2004 04:23:49 +1000, "DRS"
wrote:

"Badger_South" wrote in message

On Tue, 11 May 2004 23:50:04 -0300, "KB"
wrote:

hmmm....can't say I disagree with you since I really don't know the
answer for sure, but I know that I have recently read in textbooks
that carbo loading helps store glycogen in muscles, and that for
prolonged efforts, if your muscles run out of glycogen, cramping
etc. will occur...
I too am interested to hear what others here do..

The trick is this...

Eat the carbs, by themselves (i.e., not with fat or protein) and eat
them just before or just after the exercise. This will cause a rise
in insulin, but because of the needs of the body going into or
finishing exercise, the nutrients will be used to build muscle, and
will not go into fat storage.

That's not possible. Muscles are built from protein. Carbs are the body's
prime source of glucose. You take simple carbs immediately after exercise
to spike your insulin, replenish muscle glycogen and inhibit cortisol
production. The insulin will enhance muscle uptake of protein, thereby
aiding protein synthesis, as well as uptake of supplements like creatine.
Therefore, to optimise the post-exercise window (which, BTW, is greatest
after anaboloic exercise), you want whey protein, because it is highly
absorbent, and a 50:50 mix of dextrose (glucose) and maltodextrin, because
together they promote the highest stimulation of the transport mechanisms in
the intestinal lumen resulting in the most efficient absorbtion of macro-
and micronutrients into the blood stream.

I agree with this, and I take whey protein for just this effect.

In between exercise, it's better for those predisposed to gain weight
(fat), to eat higher protein and good fat.

Works for me.

What's actually happening is that your body's energy buffering mechanisms
are coping with your retarded eating habits.

Might be, but it got me from 270lbs to a muscular 200 in about 7-8 months,
with very little exercise (had an injury) and when nothing else would.

Just before a ride I will eat some small amt of carbs (couple pieces
of chocolate?), and finish with some diluted OJ. Then about two hours
later I'll eat the protein meal. Two or three hours after that, and
just before or after the next exercise period, I repeat.

I have found that even sugar free drinks or chewing gum will often
suffice. I think in some ppl, the sweet taste can cause a rise in
insulin, and thus movement of nutrient into muscles.

Insulin is produced as a result of increased blood sugar levels.

Insulin is produced in the pancreas. It is -released- by a variety of
stimuli, one of them being blood sugar.

Obviously, the converse is true. Beware of eating sweet-tasting things
along with fat, b/c you might be one of those that has an insulin
rise just to the taste, even in the absence of digestible
carbs/glucose.

That's just nonsense. No sugars, no insulin.

Nope. I've read a couple studies that suggest that 'sweet tasting' sugar
free drinks can cause an insulin spike due to the sweet taste.

In addition I believe things like caffeine can also spike insulin.

-B

Actually, for cycling, going stupid on the carb like a PL will just get
you
water logged and make you heavier for your ride (assuming you were LCing
before hand). IMO, it is better to consume carbs right before and during
your ride, you can you burn them as they land and avoid water logging.

Generally Roger I would agree, from what we have read and maybe your own
experiences. I will say, I don't retain water if I eat carbs for a day. I
don't go out and eat a whole pizza....well usually not, but I don't seem to
have that effect of retaining water. Not sure why.

I really think carb loading may work for some people and eating carbs while
riding works for some and whatever. You really need to do things and find
what works for you as an individual. I think most people should eat some
carbs if they are going to do a longer ride. I road 45 miles today and am
on low carb and did okay today. I was cranky at the end. I could have used
a Cliff bar or something.

I tend to eat sushi the night before and eat protein and some carbs for
breakfast and I like a banana or a Cliff bar or something while I ride. I
don't like to eat too much while riding however.

Curt

On Wed, 12 May 2004 20:09:29 GMT, "curt" wrote:


Actually, for cycling, going stupid on the carb like a PL will just get
you
water logged and make you heavier for your ride (assuming you were LCing
before hand). IMO, it is better to consume carbs right before and during
your ride, you can you burn them as they land and avoid water logging.

Generally Roger I would agree, from what we have read and maybe your own
experiences. I will say, I don't retain water if I eat carbs for a day. I
don't go out and eat a whole pizza....well usually not, but I don't seem to
have that effect of retaining water. Not sure why.

I really think carb loading may work for some people and eating carbs while
riding works for some and whatever. You really need to do things and find
what works for you as an individual. I think most people should eat some
carbs if they are going to do a longer ride. I road 45 miles today and am
on low carb and did okay today. I was cranky at the end. I could have used
a Cliff bar or something.

I tend to eat sushi the night before and eat protein and some carbs for
breakfast and I like a banana or a Cliff bar or something while I ride. I
don't like to eat too much while riding however.

Curt

Within reason, this is the crux, IMO. Experiment if you must but find what
works for you.

Lots of nutritional tinkering works for me that doesn't work for others. I
do really well on a LC diet, when many get headaches and/or feel bad.

-B

Generally Roger I would agree, from what we have read and maybe your own
experiences. I will say, I don't retain water if I eat carbs for a day.
I
don't go out and eat a whole pizza....well usually not, but I don't seem
to
have that effect of retaining water. Not sure why.

I really think carb loading may work for some people and eating carbs
while
riding works for some and whatever. You really need to do things and
find
what works for you as an individual. I think most people should eat some
carbs if they are going to do a longer ride. I road 45 miles today and
am
on low carb and did okay today. I was cranky at the end. I could have
used
a Cliff bar or something.

I tend to eat sushi the night before and eat protein and some carbs for
breakfast and I like a banana or a Cliff bar or something while I ride.
I
don't like to eat too much while riding however.

Curt

Within reason, this is the crux, IMO. Experiment if you must but find what
works for you.

Lots of nutritional tinkering works for me that doesn't work for others. I
do really well on a LC diet, when many get headaches and/or feel bad.

-B

Interesting you mention LC diet and headaches. I confess, I get a headache
for about three days when I restart LC on about day 2 or 3 through day 4 or
5 and I really don't feel all that great. Then it goes away and I start
really feeling good. I suspect that many people start feeling bad for a
couple of days and go off the diet and say...I hate LC. The reason I say
this is because I have seen what people do on diets. They are not very
strict and they look for an excuse to quite. I should know, I was one of
them for years.

On the other hand, I am sure there are people that don't do well on LC.
There is no doubt people are different.
Curt

On Wed, 12 May 2004 21:45:50 GMT, "curt" wrote:

Within reason, this is the crux, IMO. Experiment if you must but find what
works for you.

Lots of nutritional tinkering works for me that doesn't work for others. I
do really well on a LC diet, when many get headaches and/or feel bad.

-B

Interesting you mention LC diet and headaches. I confess, I get a headache
for about three days when I restart LC on about day 2 or 3 through day 4 or
5 and I really don't feel all that great. Then it goes away and I start
really feeling good. I suspect that many people start feeling bad for a
couple of days and go off the diet and say...I hate LC. The reason I say
this is because I have seen what people do on diets. They are not very
strict and they look for an excuse to quite. I should know, I was one of
them for years.

On the other hand, I am sure there are people that don't do well on LC.
There is no doubt people are different.
Curt

I remember years ago reading about how bodybuilders got 'cut' for
competition, and wondering how in the world they were able to eat boiled
chicken, rinsed tunafish, and protein drinks and little else.

At the time, I was ruled by the food, and felt I was weak for not being
able to lose weight, or diet, or cut the subcutaneous fat, etc.

It was surprising as hell to discover the trick was to do what the Atkins
ppl call 'induction' where you go on a mostly protein diet for about 6-10
days to purge the carbs out of your system.

It was amazing. After about day 7 or 8 I no longer had -any- desire to eat
carbs, and _I_ controlled the diet. I decided intellectually (duh) what to
eat, and could fast or do whatever the heck I wanted to and the fat weight
just came flying off. At this point I decided I was a carb addict, and it
was the endorphin rush and the use of food as a drug that had me hooked. I
had hated that. I went for about 6 months eating no overt carbs. Of course
you get a fair amount of 'hidden', or non-obvious carbs; in milk, in
cheese, in processed meat and soforth, but I'm pretty sure I kept it below
20grams per day.

It's really a 'high' for me. I need less sleep, don't get tired or sleepy
during the day, and have a lot of energy. People say that's nuts, you need
carbs and whatever, but in my case I seemed to thrive. What I really liked
was being in 'control' of the food, and not the other way around.

Now I'm at a point where I 'decide' to have some carbs, usually fruit
drinks and soforth to help me on bike rides over 45 minutes, and I'll
occasionally eat dark chocolate, or munch on some sweet tarts before or
after exercise, but mostly survive on turkey, salmon and green beans. My
wife says she thinks I'm some kind of mutant. heh.

Anyway, your body, your science experiment I always say. ;-)

-B

Thu, 13 May 2004 04:37:31 +1000, ,
"DRS" wrote:

Essentially you go low carb a week or so before the
competition and lift like crazy to deplete your muscle glycogen. Of course,
at this point you feel like **** and are as weak as a kitten because you've
got no energy, but then a couple of days before the competition you go
stupid on the carbs and if you time it right you can achieve a temporary
overloading of muscle glycogen right on competition day.


http://www.poweringmuscles.com/runni...ticle_number=7
. . .
Researchers at the University of Western Australia have therefore
devised another refinement to the carbo-loading strategy. This one
combines depletion and loading and condenses them into a one-day time
frame. In an experiment, the researches had athletes perform a short-
duration, high-intensity workout consisting of 150 seconds at 130% of
VO2 max followed by a 30-second sprint. During the next 24 hours, the
athletes consumed 12 grams of carbohydrate per kilogram of lean muscle
mass. This resulted in a 90 percent increase in muscle glycogen
storage.
.. . .
--
zk

Rick Onanian wrote:

Carbohydrates are a necessary part of a healthy diet. An unhealthy
diet that's missing important parts can cause weight loss, which is
why no-carb or no-[protein+fat+whatever] diets can result in lost
weight.

Actually, the no-carb, etc. diets result in lost weight because they
reduce the number of calories a person eats daily. Any weight loss
diet is essentially a gimmick to get you to eat fewer calories.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

I am late on this thread too so....
Logic would seem to indicate eating a lot of protein right after a race so
your body could build the muscles with it.
Eating a lot of carbs the night before would seem to trigger your body
into trying to convert the excess calories into fat, not exactly the
intent.
Eating a huge, high calorie, high carb breakfast a few hours before a race
would put all that carb energy into your bloodstream at about the time it
was needed.
This seems to work for me, although I must repeat that I am 55 and hardly
traing for the TDF, but morning carbs, along with a gallon of Orange juice
in a backpack (not a camelback), and some food, energy bars or whatever,
makes a 70 mile plus ride a whole lot easier.
My take, but again I am just a semi-addicted rider and not a trainer. Just
45 years of riding experience.
Bill