11 speed gears

On 2/24/2016 12:17 PM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

Steve, however, does not have to contend with mountain lions -- just rich assholes in exotic cars trying to set speed records up Highway 9/Page Mill/Old LaHonda/Kings Mountain, etc., etc.

Wrong.

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2015/07/10/mountain-lion-spotted-roaming-near-stanford/

Lots of mountain lions in the Santa Cruz mountains and they do come near
roads.

Per sms:
I understand the appeal of eliminating the third chain ring, or even the
second and third chain ring, but the cost of derailleurs that can handle
the 11-42 cassette, the cost of the cassettes, and the cost of the
chains, don't seem like a worthwhile trade-off to me.

What I like about triples is that I can have a stump-puller low gear
without compromising the spacing too much.

If I were attracted to a single front chain wheel/der setup, I think I
would compromise on two front chain wheels - with the big one giving me
the range I use most of the time and a really small one for occasional
really-low gear use. In that scenario, you can even do without the
front der.... just a cloth or stick to push the chain from wheel to
wheel.
--
Pete Cresswell

On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 at 4:23:43 PM UTC-5, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per sms:
I understand the appeal of eliminating the third chain ring, or even the
second and third chain ring, but the cost of derailleurs that can handle
the 11-42 cassette, the cost of the cassettes, and the cost of the
chains, don't seem like a worthwhile trade-off to me.

What I like about triples is that I can have a stump-puller low gear
without compromising the spacing too much.

If I were attracted to a single front chain wheel/der setup, I think I
would compromise on two front chain wheels - with the big one giving me
the range I use most of the time and a really small one for occasional
really-low gear use. In that scenario, you can even do without the
front der.... just a cloth or stick to push the chain from wheel to
wheel.
--
Pete Cresswell

I have a corncob on one of my MTB with drop-bars and bar-end shifters. i have a triple up front. I absolutely LOVE that shifting in back on the longer hills around here. I can change the gear when the incline becomes to great/long for the gear I'm in but I don't end up spinning out either. Just nice gradual gear reductions or increases WHEN I most want them.

On 2/24/2016 3:17 PM, jbeattie wrote:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/img.ultrasi...cc29262c5b.jpg One of my all-time favorite climbs except for the slippery crack seal **** they use in California.

They use that in lots of states. It's particularly bad when very hot.
On our coast to coast trip, my daughter took to calling it "road snakes."


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2016-02-24 13:55, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/24/2016 3:17 PM, jbeattie wrote:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/img.ultrasi...cc29262c5b.jpg
One of my all-time favorite climbs except for the slippery crack seal
**** they use in California.

They use that in lots of states. It's particularly bad when very hot.
On our coast to coast trip, my daughter took to calling it "road snakes."


That stuff is really great on hot days, shortly after application. You
go through it and then there is a ouack-ouack sound coming from the
tires. About the same effect as riding through a major chewing gum splotch.

Very popular out he "Oh, lets just do a micro-trench to run cable TV
to that new customer across the street". Afterwards a glorified caulking
gun supposedly "seals" it. Instead of black splotches on the tires then
you often have gray ones.

The worst case happened to a friend on a nice new road bike. Roaring
down a hill he either didn't see a raod works sign or it had blown over.
The bike came to a sudden stop and began to sink into freshly applied
asphalt. There was black goo on the bike everywhere, on his shoes, legs,
everywhere.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2016-02-24 13:23, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per sms:
I understand the appeal of eliminating the third chain ring, or even the
second and third chain ring, but the cost of derailleurs that can handle
the 11-42 cassette, the cost of the cassettes, and the cost of the
chains, don't seem like a worthwhile trade-off to me.


I also do not like the fact that this stuff becomes ever more finicky.
Keeping a 10-speed rear derailleur lined up on a MTB for more than a few
weeks is next to impossible in areas like here where one has to contend
with of rock hits. Plus everything costs 2x versus 7-speed. 11-speed can
only be worse and even more expensive. So when the rear end of my MTB is
totally worn one day I am thinking about replacing all that with
7-speed, provided I can find a 7-speed cassette with a 36t cog or hack
one. Regularly spaced, not just bail-out gear, and not costing a fortune.


What I like about triples is that I can have a stump-puller low gear
without compromising the spacing too much.

If I were attracted to a single front chain wheel/der setup, I think I
would compromise on two front chain wheels - with the big one giving me
the range I use most of the time and a really small one for occasional
really-low gear use. In that scenario, you can even do without the
front der.... just a cloth or stick to push the chain from wheel to
wheel.


One of my buddies had a major chain & front derailleur shredding event
when we were going up a hill. We lucked out in that this happened close
to a house where bikers lived and we were able to shorten the chain. I
always carry a link so that got us going again. This was months ago and
he still hasn't replaced the derailleur. He uses the right foot to shift
the chain down and a wooden stick to shift up.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 at 3:17:43 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 at 9:16:16 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-02-24 07:10, sms wrote:
On 2/24/2016 5:20 AM, AMuzi wrote:

snip

The jumps are of course bigger than a 2x11 or a 3x11 but in practice
eleven is more than the 2x5 bicycles of my (very high mileage) youth (8
useful) and wider gear range to boot.

Even when I was younger, it wasn't the number of gears, it was having a
high enough high and a low enough low.


For me that still applies and now that I am older even more so. I do not
care at all about granularity. It could be way over 50% for all I care.
So I installed the steepest cassette I could fit on my old 1980's road
bike. To my surprise the old Shimano 600 rear derailleur took 32t.


In my area, if you want to do recreational riding that's any fun, you
have to head up out of the valley into the surrounding hills and
mountains, and for that you'll want a pretty low gear unless you're a
racer in extraordinary shape.


Worse here. On road bikes we more or less roll down into the valley,
tool around down there, do some lengthy high speed stretches, run
errands or pick up a load and then have to slog it up the hills to get
home. 1200ft difference or so but with many ups and downs.

Not worse there than the climbs around Steve -- at least not until you get up to Sierra passes or maybe down to that nasty climb on HWY 49 near Bagby. What you're describing is a rolling ascent. The SCV has stuff like this: https://s3.amazonaws.com/img.ultrasi...cc29262c5b.jpg One of my all-time favorite climbs except for the slippery crack seal **** they use in California. The Santa Cruz Mountain climbs are much steeper but shorter -- under ten miles.

Steve, however, does not have to contend with mountain lions -- just rich assholes in exotic cars trying to set speed records up Highway 9/Page Mill/Old LaHonda/Kings Mountain, etc., etc.

-- Jay Beattie.

never see cyclists going up...fortunate.

as I close wait wait there's Washington's Pass https://goo.gl/42jUN4

where we stop to watch

On Tue, 23 Feb 2016 21:34:23 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per John B.:
Has anyone ridden a bike with the Shimano 11 speed cassette and single
chain ring? I saw one at my local bike shop that had a 11 - 40 tooth
cassette and a single (looked like) 30 something tooth chain ring. It
looked like the difference in gear ratio between the gears would be
pretty big jumps.

Has anyone actually ridden one of these?

No, but I ride a Rohloff with 14 speeds (13.6% between gears) and I
would say that 14 is plenty for a rider like me (doesn't have to keep up
with a pack....).

Rohloff's total span is 526%.

Depending on the cogs put on the Shimano 11-speed, I could see it
working OK for certain riders - me included.

You can quantify this stuff: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gear-calc.html

I wasn't thinking so much of the overall gear limits as the difference
between gears as I find that more bothersome than whether I've got a
500% difference between high gear and low. After all, one can always
get off and push :-)

What I find bothersome is pedaling along in a gear that seems to be a
bit less then optimum and shifting up or down a gear and finding that
it is a little more, or less, then one wants.

As for Sheldon's gear calculation I've always used "Gear Inches"
which, to me, gives a better feeling for gearing.

--
cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 24 Feb 2016 07:20:33 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 2/23/2016 6:51 PM, John B. wrote:
Has anyone ridden a bike with the Shimano 11 speed cassette and single
chain ring? I saw one at my local bike shop that had a 11 - 40 tooth
cassette and a single (looked like) 30 something tooth chain ring. It
looked like the difference in gear ratio between the gears would be
pretty big jumps.

Has anyone actually ridden one of these?
--
cheers,

John B.


Yes.
The jumps are of course bigger than a 2x11 or a 3x11 but in
practice eleven is more than the 2x5 bicycles of my (very
high mileage) youth (8 useful) and wider gear range to boot.

Must have been one of those "10 speed English racers" I remember :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 24 Feb 2016 16:23:38 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

I think I
would compromise on two front chain wheels - with the big one giving me
the range I use most of the time and a really small one for occasional
really-low gear use.

I used to have one of those. But sometime during the last fifteen
years it somehow shifted (without changing any of the hardware) to a
small one for most of the time and a big one for going downhill.

--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.