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Cycle box death judge gets it right for once



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 21st 18, 08:52 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
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Posts: 316
Default Cycle box death judge gets it right for once

QUOTE:
Barry Northcott pulled into the zone which is designed to protect cyclists at a traffic lights in Whitechapel High Street and failed to spot Karla Norman.

Jailing him for 15 months this morning, Judge Christopher Kinch QC said: "It may be frustrating to see cyclists - swarming or otherwise - pulling in front at junctions.

"But the box is the device placed there to protect vulnerable cyclists from the consequences of not being seen as traffic pulls away.

*****"Motorists simply have to accept that, and it is not open to them to decide when and where they may ignore that rule."***** EMPHASIS MINE.

He was also banned from driving for five years and 30 weeks.

END QUOTE.

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...arry-Northcott
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  #3  
Old September 22nd 18, 12:51 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
RJH[_2_]
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Posts: 74
Default Cycle box death judge gets it right for once

On 21/09/2018 21:11, JNugent wrote:
On 21/09/2018 20:52, wrote:
QUOTE:
Barry Northcott pulled into the zone which is designed to protect
cyclists at a traffic lights in Whitechapel High Street and failed to
spot Karla Norman.

Jailing him for 15 months this morning, Judge Christopher Kinch QC
said: "It may be frustrating to see cyclists - swarming or otherwise -
pulling in front at junctions.

"But the box is the device placed there to protect vulnerable cyclists
from the consequences of not being seen as traffic pulls away.

*****"Motorists simply have to accept that, and it is not open to them
to decide when and where they may ignore that rule."***** EMPHASIS MINE.

He was also banned from driving for five years and 30 weeks.

END QUOTE.

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...arry-Northcott


The report is opaque (which isn't a surprise).

Did the coach driver pull up behind the stationary cyclist then drive
over her when the lights changed to green?

Did he just drive over her without stopping because the lights were
green as he approached?


I'd interpret as just ploughing into the cyclist on a red light. Driving
into the cycle area at a red light is pretty routine IME - I'd guess the
driver was in some sort of autopilot mode.


--
Cheers, Rob
  #4  
Old September 22nd 18, 01:19 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
MrCheerful
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Posts: 4,320
Default Cycle box death judge gets it right for once

On 22/09/2018 12:51, RJH wrote:
On 21/09/2018 21:11, JNugent wrote:
On 21/09/2018 20:52, wrote:
QUOTE:
Barry Northcott pulled into the zone which is designed to protect
cyclists at a traffic lights in Whitechapel High Street and failed to
spot Karla Norman.

Jailing him for 15 months this morning, Judge Christopher Kinch QC
said: "It may be frustrating to see cyclists - swarming or otherwise
- pulling in front at junctions.

"But the box is the device placed there to protect vulnerable
cyclists from the consequences of not being seen as traffic pulls away.

*****"Motorists simply have to accept that, and it is not open to
them to decide when and where they may ignore that rule."*****
EMPHASIS MINE.

He was also banned from driving for five years and 30 weeks.

END QUOTE.

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...arry-Northcott


The report is opaque (which isn't a surprise).

Did the coach driver pull up behind the stationary cyclist then drive
over her when the lights changed to green?

Did he just drive over her without stopping because the lights were
green as he approached?


I'd interpret as just ploughing into the cyclist on a red light. Driving
into the cycle area at a red light is pretty routine IME - I'd guess the
driver was in some sort of autopilot mode.



No, the coach was turning left when she went under the wheels.
  #5  
Old September 22nd 18, 02:57 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Simon Jester
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Posts: 1,730
Default Cycle box death judge gets it right for once

On Saturday, September 22, 2018 at 1:19:54 PM UTC+1, MrCheerful wrote:
On 22/09/2018 12:51, RJH wrote:
On 21/09/2018 21:11, JNugent wrote:
On 21/09/2018 20:52, wrote:
QUOTE:
Barry Northcott pulled into the zone which is designed to protect
cyclists at a traffic lights in Whitechapel High Street and failed to
spot Karla Norman.

Jailing him for 15 months this morning, Judge Christopher Kinch QC
said: "It may be frustrating to see cyclists - swarming or otherwise
- pulling in front at junctions.

"But the box is the device placed there to protect vulnerable
cyclists from the consequences of not being seen as traffic pulls away.

*****"Motorists simply have to accept that, and it is not open to
them to decide when and where they may ignore that rule."*****
EMPHASIS MINE.

He was also banned from driving for five years and 30 weeks.

END QUOTE.

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...arry-Northcott


The report is opaque (which isn't a surprise).

Did the coach driver pull up behind the stationary cyclist then drive
over her when the lights changed to green?

Did he just drive over her without stopping because the lights were
green as he approached?


I'd interpret as just ploughing into the cyclist on a red light. Driving
into the cycle area at a red light is pretty routine IME - I'd guess the
driver was in some sort of autopilot mode.



No, the coach was turning left when she went under the wheels.


This involved a motor vehicle and a pedal cycle, therefore it was the pedal cyclist's fault.
I suspect the driver had to swerve to avoid an unlit cyclist in Tierra Del Fuego.

  #6  
Old September 22nd 18, 03:31 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
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Posts: 316
Default Cycle box death judge gets it right for once

On Saturday, September 22, 2018 at 2:57:04 PM UTC+1, Simon Jester wrote:

This involved a motor vehicle and a pedal cycle, therefore it was the pedal cyclist's fault.
I suspect the driver had to swerve to avoid an unlit cyclist in Tierra Del Fuego.


The driver accepts that it "*was* his fault though.

QUOTE: His barrister, Harry Bentley, said the former solider is "desperately sorry" for Ms Roman's death.

"Barry Northcott literally relives the tragic collision with Ms Roman every day, and at ties (sic) he has considered ending his own life because of it", he told the court.

Northcott, from Bromley, was found guilty of causing death by careless driving.

ENDS.
  #7  
Old September 22nd 18, 03:38 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
JNugent[_10_]
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Posts: 74
Default Cycle box death judge gets it right for once

On 22/09/2018 12:51, RJH wrote:
On 21/09/2018 21:11, JNugent wrote:
On 21/09/2018 20:52, wrote:
QUOTE:
Barry Northcott pulled into the zone which is designed to protect
cyclists at a traffic lights in Whitechapel High Street and failed to
spot Karla Norman.

Jailing him for 15 months this morning, Judge Christopher Kinch QC
said: "It may be frustrating to see cyclists - swarming or otherwise
- pulling in front at junctions.

"But the box is the device placed there to protect vulnerable
cyclists from the consequences of not being seen as traffic pulls away.

*****"Motorists simply have to accept that, and it is not open to
them to decide when and where they may ignore that rule."*****
EMPHASIS MINE.

He was also banned from driving for five years and 30 weeks.

END QUOTE.

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...arry-Northcott


The report is opaque (which isn't a surprise).

Did the coach driver pull up behind the stationary cyclist then drive
over her when the lights changed to green?

Did he just drive over her without stopping because the lights were
green as he approached?


I'd interpret as just ploughing into the cyclist on a red light. Driving
into the cycle area at a red light is pretty routine IME - I'd guess the
driver was in some sort of autopilot mode.


I don't believe it's as clear-cut as that, which is why I didn't offer
it as an option.

The report is fairly quiet on the sort of detail which would assist, but
it says (inter alia): "The 32-year-old suffered “devastating injuries”
when she was dragged under the huge vehicle on February 6 last year".

"Dragged under" just doesn't suggest a collision with the rear of the
bike whilst the coach was slowing to a stop over the last very few yards
before a red light. It suggests a glancing blow from the side of the
coach while it was turning (all too common an occurrence in London over
the past n years, it sometimes seems), which in turn suggests a green
light, or a green light for the turn at least.

I woner whether there are any better reports of the incident (or the trial)?

  #8  
Old September 22nd 18, 03:41 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
JNugent[_10_]
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Posts: 74
Default Cycle box death judge gets it right for once

On 22/09/2018 13:19, MrCheerful wrote:
On 22/09/2018 12:51, RJH wrote:
On 21/09/2018 21:11, JNugent wrote:
On 21/09/2018 20:52, wrote:
QUOTE:
Barry Northcott pulled into the zone which is designed to protect
cyclists at a traffic lights in Whitechapel High Street and failed
to spot Karla Norman.

Jailing him for 15 months this morning, Judge Christopher Kinch QC
said: "It may be frustrating to see cyclists - swarming or otherwise
- pulling in front at junctions.

"But the box is the device placed there to protect vulnerable
cyclists from the consequences of not being seen as traffic pulls away.

*****"Motorists simply have to accept that, and it is not open to
them to decide when and where they may ignore that rule."*****
EMPHASIS MINE.

He was also banned from driving for five years and 30 weeks.

END QUOTE.

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...arry-Northcott


The report is opaque (which isn't a surprise).

Did the coach driver pull up behind the stationary cyclist then drive
over her when the lights changed to green?

Did he just drive over her without stopping because the lights were
green as he approached?


I'd interpret as just ploughing into the cyclist on a red light.
Driving into the cycle area at a red light is pretty routine IME - I'd
guess the driver was in some sort of autopilot mode.



No, the coach was turning left when she went under the wheels.


I didn't spot that detail in the report (though "dragged under the huge
vehicle" does suggest a collision involving the side of the coach during
a turning movement).

Did you get it from another, better, report?
  #9  
Old September 22nd 18, 04:06 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Simon Jester
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Posts: 1,730
Default Cycle box death judge gets it right for once

On Saturday, September 22, 2018 at 12:51:21 PM UTC+1, RJH wrote:
On 21/09/2018 21:11, JNugent wrote:
On 21/09/2018 20:52, wrote:
QUOTE:
Barry Northcott pulled into the zone which is designed to protect
cyclists at a traffic lights in Whitechapel High Street and failed to
spot Karla Norman.

Jailing him for 15 months this morning, Judge Christopher Kinch QC
said: "It may be frustrating to see cyclists - swarming or otherwise -
pulling in front at junctions.

"But the box is the device placed there to protect vulnerable cyclists
from the consequences of not being seen as traffic pulls away.

*****"Motorists simply have to accept that, and it is not open to them
to decide when and where they may ignore that rule."***** EMPHASIS MINE.

He was also banned from driving for five years and 30 weeks.

END QUOTE.

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...arry-Northcott


The report is opaque (which isn't a surprise).

Did the coach driver pull up behind the stationary cyclist then drive
over her when the lights changed to green?

Did he just drive over her without stopping because the lights were
green as he approached?


I'd interpret as just ploughing into the cyclist on a red light. Driving
into the cycle area at a red light is pretty routine IME - I'd guess the
driver was in some sort of autopilot mode.



We have been told many, many times that cyclists never stop at red lights.
So even if the Law Abiding coach driver was driving at 35mph in a 30mph limit it proves the 12mph cyclist was undertaking the motor vehicle.

  #10  
Old September 22nd 18, 05:37 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
MrCheerful
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Posts: 4,320
Default Cycle box death judge gets it right for once

On 22/09/2018 15:41, JNugent wrote:
On 22/09/2018 13:19, MrCheerful wrote:
On 22/09/2018 12:51, RJH wrote:
On 21/09/2018 21:11, JNugent wrote:
On 21/09/2018 20:52, wrote:
QUOTE:
Barry Northcott pulled into the zone which is designed to protect
cyclists at a traffic lights in Whitechapel High Street and failed
to spot Karla Norman.

Jailing him for 15 months this morning, Judge Christopher Kinch QC
said: "It may be frustrating to see cyclists - swarming or
otherwise - pulling in front at junctions.

"But the box is the device placed there to protect vulnerable
cyclists from the consequences of not being seen as traffic pulls
away.

*****"Motorists simply have to accept that, and it is not open to
them to decide when and where they may ignore that rule."*****
EMPHASIS MINE.

He was also banned from driving for five years and 30 weeks.

END QUOTE.

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...arry-Northcott


The report is opaque (which isn't a surprise).

Did the coach driver pull up behind the stationary cyclist then
drive over her when the lights changed to green?

Did he just drive over her without stopping because the lights were
green as he approached?


I'd interpret as just ploughing into the cyclist on a red light.
Driving into the cycle area at a red light is pretty routine IME -
I'd guess the driver was in some sort of autopilot mode.



No, the coach was turning left when she went under the wheels.


I didn't spot that detail in the report (though "dragged under the huge
vehicle" does suggest a collision involving the side of the coach during
a turning movement).

Did you get it from another, better, report?


The daily star did not even get her name correct.
slightly better:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-driving.html
 




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